D2701 - Odd Protruberance

[John Isherwood]

The BR / NB 200HP 0-4-0DH shunters were a little odd looking, anyway - but D2701 seems to have had some sort of pipework between the bonnet and cab.

 

 

In-cab sauna, perhaps?

 

... or kipper smoker?

 

Any further thoughts - serious or whimsical - are welcome.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

If anyone claims copyright of the above photo, I will remove it on request.

[Covkid]

Interesting one John

I would say the pipe is too large in diameter for vacuum brakes even if it were to be sited that high up in the cab. Also too large for any kind of liquid.

 

If I had to guess I would say it is some kind of warm air heater ducting to the cab from a radiator heat exchanger under the bonnet. But I certainly wouldn't stake any money on it !!!!

 

Good find

[John Isherwood]

If I had to guess I would say it is some kind of warm air heater ducting to the cab from a radiator heat exchanger under the bonnet.

 

My immediate thought.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Nearholmer]

The cheap method for industrial locos was to route the exhaust via a pipe, sometimes with find, through the cab, with a sort of diverted box to turn it on/off. Didn’t my old 2CV have the same?

 

Risks asphyxiating the driver if it leaks, but cheap.

 

Would BR have tolerated similar?

[John Isherwood]

The cheap method for industrial locos was to route the exhaust via a pipe, sometimes with find, through the cab, with a sort of diverted box to turn it on/off. Didn’t my old 2CV have the same?

 

Risks asphyxiating the driver if it leaks, but cheap.

 

Would BR have tolerated similar?

 

If it did, it seems to have been a one-off - I can't find it on any of the others in the class.

 

Perhaps your comments re asphyxiation lend weight to my kipper-smoking theory?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited November 23, 2017 by cctransuk

[Flying Pig]

The cheap method for industrial locos was to route the exhaust via a pipe, sometimes with find, through the cab, with a sort of diverted box to turn it on/off. Didn’t my old 2CV have the same?

 

If you can't remember, it probably did.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Risks asphyxiating the driver if it leaks, but cheap.

 

Would BR have tolerated similar?

Didn't one of the class 33s kill its crew by knocking them out with CO from the exhaust? The risks weren't as well understood as they are now.

[Clive Mortimore]

 

 

Bit late to be asking what it is, I just thought it was a raised panel. I would like to know if there are any photos of this loco from above so I know what I need to do to replace my lump of plastic.

 

Model is scratchbuilt, brass chassis, no idea of the motor, DJH gear box (runs lovely) and Romford wheels. Body some deformed Slaters plastic card.

[Porcy Mane]

Well it's at Darlington although I suspect a Goole loco at the time of the Phot. For a good  number of  years It was at West Hartlepool.

 

I can't throw any light on what the pipe is but wonder if it is a coincidence that a number of Darlington 04's that were also allocated to W Hartlepool had an additional pipe that ran along the top of the bonnet.  I thought it may have been something to with Flameproofing considering the loco will have run into Paton & Baldwins wool mill and Hartlepool sleeper depot and wood yards that had a tendency to ignite. This theory was discounted by railwaymen from the area that stated steam locos ran into these places without restriction.

 

I've been coming round the the idea that the pipework on the 04's were something to do with the radiator header tank as during winter the cab heat radiators could air lock due to coolant cavitation. Maybe the NB shunter was fitted with something similar?

 

P

Edited November 23, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[Nearholmer]

Irrelevant tangent ....... I checked, and the 2CV has an exhaust/air heat exchanger, plus a warning in the servicing manual that corrosion in the exhaust tube can lead to exhaust fumes in the heating air. What this arrangement doesn't do is heat the car when you really need it, first thing on a frosty morning, when the windscreen is iced up.

 

Tangent now over.

[brack]

It looks to have been there for a while:

 

http://www.rcts.org.uk/photographs/archive/380/CH/CH01399.jpg

 

At goole 25/8/61, found on the rcts website.

 

Whatever it was, it can't have been that unofficial a modification to survive a repaint unmolested?

[45125]

Didn't one of the class 33s kill its crew by knocking them out with CO from the exhaust? The risks weren't as well understood as they are now.

 

The crew was overcome by fumes entering the cab from a split silencer, this what led to the removal of the silencer and fitting exhaust coming straight off the turbo.

[Bert Cheese]

The crew was overcome by fumes entering the cab from a split silencer, this what led to the removal of the silencer and fitting exhaust coming straight off the turbo.

D6502 at Itchingfield Junction in 1964....the first total loss of a modernisation plan loco too IIRC?

The silencer fault was never proven/admitted but seems fairly obvious reading the incident report and subsequent alterations to the exhausts in very short order.

A rare black mark against the Cromptons though, hardly a bad word heard about them by staff though perhaps a little bouncy at speed and noisy in the cab...the latter shared by comparable Hymeks and 37's too though, the type 3's generally being one of the best buys of the 1960's.

[russ p]

D6502 at Itchingfield Junction in 1964....the first total loss of a modernisation plan loco too IIRC?

The silencer fault was never proven/admitted but seems fairly obvious reading the incident report and subsequent alterations to the exhausts in very short order.

A rare black mark against the Cromptons though, hardly a bad word heard about them by staff though perhaps a little bouncy at speed and noisy in the cab...the latter shared by comparable Hymeks and 37's too though, the type 3's generally being one of the best buys of the 1960's.

Was this the same reason that silencers were removed from 25s? Shame they weren't removed from 47s and other locos as well.

66s may be a tad more palatable if they were unsilenced and the no1 cab would be quieter

[Porcy Mane]

Irrelevant tangent ....... What this arrangement doesn't do is heat the car when you really need it, first thing on a frosty morning, when the windscreen is iced up.

 

Tangent now over.

 

Funny. Air Cooled VW had a similar system and it produced hot air virtually from start up. From experience it was definitely quicker than water cooled. VW used that that fact during a massive advertising campaign in North America during the 1960's. The advert asked the question, "how does a snow plough driver get to work?" the answer being, "In a VW Beetle".

Then along came Ralph Nader and his team showing how dangerous that heating method was.

 

My tangent now over.

[Nearholmer]

It's because there's no air flow through it, until moving, so nothing comes out of the window 'demister' slots to help defrost before you set off. I've read of people fitting fans to the ducts and running the engine for ten minutes before setting-off.

[Porcy Mane]

Ah! The VW advantage of having the engine driven fan supply the vent system air. Via a bl**dy great tube up the middle of the car. You did have to twiddle a knob though to open diverters in the heat exchanger.

[Nearholmer]

Well, there is an engine cooling fan, but in winter one tries to blank it off, to prevent over-cooling of the engine, so it's all a bit of a bad compromise.

[Boris]

Well, there is an engine cooling fan, but in winter one tries to blank it off, to prevent over-cooling of the engine, so it's all a bit of a bad compromise.

Apparently cornflake packets were good for that.

 

You can't beat a bit of nob twiddling though, until it comes off in your hand,

[Enterprisingwestern]

Having consulted my photographic library, which, due to copyright issues I can't post on here regrettably, neither D2700 & D 2702 had this protuberence in 1962/3/4.

Interestingly though, the pipe on D2701 came out of the cab in the same place on the opposite side of the loco, so was just a U shaped pipe above the engine casing going from cab to cab, so maybe a tee piece went down into the engine compartment which we can't see on the picture above, nor on mine.

 

Mike.

[25901]

Well D2767, D2774 and Army 406 (loco's I've worked on) were fitted heaters that use the cooling water from the engine via loads of pipework and a 12v fan. Totally useless in cold weather when everything is cold or only running the shunter for a short time so any Heath Robinson device is a bonus

[Porcy Mane]

You can't beat a bit of nob twiddling though, until it comes off in your hand,

 

Still got bad memories of that happening. In fact I've spent most of today with the nurse having our weekly assessment for successfully screwing it back.

 

Well, there is an engine cooling fan, but in winter one tries to blank it off, to prevent over-cooling of the engine, so it's all a bit of a bad compromise.

 

Never had that problem with a Beetle/bus or early Porsche. Just had to keep the flaps well oiled & waxed.

[brack]

What is under the bump at the cab end of the bonnet on the later NBL shunters? Is it possible that d2701 was modified to incorporate something built into the later ones?

[25901]

What is under the bump at the cab end of the bonnet on the later NBL shunters? Is it possible that d2701 was modified to incorporate something built into the later ones?

 

On certain batches they raised the fuel tanks for clearance for the engine bay.

 

Lower fuel tank https://www.flickr.com/photos/31460388@N03/5039960924/in/album-72157625068297550/

 

Higher fuel tank https://www.flickr.com/photos/31460388@N03/5048174640/in/album-72157625068297550/

Edited November 24, 2017 by 25901

[brack]

Thanks, so that theory is out.