RMweb Gold john dew Posted November 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2017 I am building a brewery on my Granby layout. I doubt if knowledge of beer is confined to GWR enthusiasts so in order to appeal for information from a wider audience I thought I would start a separate thread Unfortunately, while not unfamiliar with the product itself......I have little or no idea how it is madeBack in September, Doug (Chubber) of this parish sent me a really useful Brewery link :https://content.historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/brewing-industry/bhs-brewing-ind-shier.pdf/Its well worth reading, not just for the illustrated history of the architecture and development of smaller Victorian breweries, but also for a succinct summary of the brewing process. It certainly gave me some useful ideas.My old brewery was built in 2010 using Metcalfe kits I did contemplate re-using some of the buildings but decided against it. They are very attractive models but perhaps a little small for Granby. They have become so popular that they are immediately recognisable. I wanted something a little different.Scalescene Warehouse kits are very flexible and I think I can create that sense of mass so typical of Victorian buildings: Within the confines of the site and allowing for the modular nature of Scalescene Warehouse I intend to make two principal buildings. A warehouse/bottling plant that will be three stories high and a brewhouse that will be narrower and taller with 5 stories.There will be assorted ancillary buildings….Cooperage, Boiler House, Water Tower etc but these will come later.Here is the track layout and some scale mock ups The modified Metcalfe unit, on the left, will serve as the Brewer's House, Offices and the Brewery Tap.Right now I need advice and input on where the various brewing processes would be allocated to the two principal buildingsFrom the link I have summarised the distinct processes as followsMalting: Barley is steeped in water for 3 days. The germinated barley is turned and dried 7-14 days and then roasted All this took place in a separate building. Some breweries had a Maltings on site, others bought the malted grain in.I dont think I have enough space for a separate Malting building so the malt barley will be bought inMilling Malt Barley ….Milled and ground …... GristMashing Grist mixed with hot water in Mash Tun. Mixture stays in tun at controlled temperature for 2-3 hours to become wortBoiling the Wort Wort is run off, mixed with Hops and boiled in a Copper for two hours Cooling the Wort Wort is sieved (hop waste is sold) and cooledFermentation Yeast added and fermented for three days in large open containers (wood/copper/stone ) Surplus yeast is skimmed off and soldRacking Beer run off from fermenting vessels into conditioning tanks. Finings clear any remaining yeast Finally transferred to Barrels or bottled.The brewhouses or towers were designed to to take advantage of gravity…...raw materials were hauled to the top using a sack hoist along with water pumped from a tower or reservoir. On completion of a process it was dropped down to the next floor finishing up with beer ready to be bottled/barrelled on the ground floor.And yet…..some of these processes require significant ventilation…... cooling the wort (in the middle of the cycle) according to the document was sited near the top of the tower for just that purposeI am not proposing to have highly detailed interiors but I need to have a rough idea of where the processes would likely have taken place in the configuration I am planning. This will dictate whether I have windows or vents and at what floor I locate the external corridor connecting the two buildings that will convey both product and people etc..Right now I am guessing on the following: WAREHOUSE BREW HOUSEFloor 5 (Tower) NA MashingFloor 4 NA Boiling the WortFloor 3 Conditioning Corridor Cooling the WortFloor 2 Racking/Bottling FermentationGround Storage and Distribuition Receiving and MillingTotal guesswork I am afraid…….. I would really appreciate any advice. Best wishes from VancouverJohn 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium chris-shay Posted November 17, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) John, Hopefully the following might help - there’s a lot of stuff going up and down and being transferred around with this! For your malt barley, it would be probably be delivered at ground level into a hopper connected to a conveyor and then carried up the milling tower in an elevator and dumped in the feed conveyor. This would then carry it across the top of the malt silos, where it would be loaded into whichever ones it was needed. From here the malt would then be discharged when needed from the bottom of the silo into another conveyor and elevator at ground level that carries it back up the mill tower. It now drops down through a weigher into the mill and is ground into the grist. It now falls into yet another elevayor that takes it all the way back up the tower again and now dumps it into the grist bin. When needed it is discharged from here it a screw conveyor that carries it into the mash tun where it is mixed with the hot water. I’ve added a little sketch to try and make all that hopefully make sense! The wort will be transferred from the mash tun into the wash backs for fermentation. These generally have their bases at ground level and their tops at first floor level within a separate room - the tun room. Access to the lower tun room is usually restricted because of the presence of CO2. The solid waste (draff) from the mashing process is dumped out of the bottom of the mash tun and is taken off site for use in animal feed. Edited November 17, 2017 by chris-shay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted November 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2017 You also need to add hops to the mash. Hops are mostly grown in East Sussex, Kent and Herefordshire The other thing is the period, as this affects the way the base products are handled. In Victorian buildings the base ingredients were mostly moved manually. Unfortunately you are a little far away to get a trip around the St Austell Brewery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) I had a tour around the Shipstones brewery in Nottingham many years ago when it was still in operation. There was quite a lot more going on than just brewing, which used lots of copper tanks, pans and pipework. I don't remember seeing too much stainless steel. Malt was delivered from their own maltings at the side of the railway at Beeston about 5 or 6 miles away, next to Beeston station. There was a bottling plant, stables for the shire horses that pulled the drays, a blacksmiths for shoeing the horses and general maintenance and they manufactured and repaired their own wooden barrels - a fascinating process to watch. The shire horses were still being used for local deliveries but mostly deliveries were by lorries (trucks), there must also have been garage facilities for these. Sadly the brewery closed some years ago but the Victorian? buildings remain and are in use for other business's, including an auctioneers. Edited November 18, 2017 by smokebox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted November 19, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2017 Thanks for the advice and information guys......very helpful. I particularly appreciated your Sketch Chris......It was very kind of you to take the trouble to do that and it has given me a much clearer insight into the extent of the vertical and lateral movement during the brewing process........many thanks Best wishes to all John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) Get on a brewery tour! I’ve been to n several, and they are very interesting ...... although I’ve forgotten how beer is made, due to the amount of sampling involved! Hook Norton is probably the best I’ve been to, but Harvey’s in Lewes is good, and their beer is better. PS: I’ve just realised where you are ....... Long trip, but worth it. Edited November 19, 2017 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2017 7 Mockup.jpg I am seriously envious of that railway room.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Banger Blue Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2017 Wychwood Brewery in Witney, home of the likes of Hobgoblin Ale, the Brewery is right in the middle of town and as can be seen from the picture below, quite a compact site. No bottling plant though, the Ale is actually bottled in Burton-on-Trent! (Well worth a tour if you like your Ale, samples are tasted both before and after the tour.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted November 20, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2017 Get on a brewery tour! I’ve been to n several, and they are very interesting ...... although I’ve forgotten how beer is made, due to the amount of sampling involved! Hook Norton is probably the best I’ve been to, but Harvey’s in Lewes is good, and their beer is better. PS: I’ve just realised where you are ....... Long trip, but worth it. Somebody else pointed me towards Hook Norton. Their web site is full of really useful information which hopefully I can transpose into model form. The whole place looks so atttractive its on the bucket list for when we visit the UK in 2019.......so we will be making the long trip after all! Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper1315 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Hi John, Not sure if this is of any use to you. My local brewery, Harveys, had this drawing of the workings of a tower brewery in one of their calendars. The brewery dates from 1881 and is a lovely example of a Victorian family brewery. Kind regards, Peter 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forfarian Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I am building a brewery on my Granby layout. I doubt if knowledge of beer is confined to GWR enthusiasts so in order to appeal for information from a wider audience I thought I would start a separate thread Unfortunately, while not unfamiliar with the product itself......I have little or no idea how it is made Back in September, Doug (Chubber) of this parish sent me a really useful Brewery link : https://content.historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/brewing-industry/bhs-brewing-ind-shier.pdf/ Its well worth reading, not just for the illustrated history of the architecture and development of smaller Victorian breweries, but also for a succinct summary of the brewing process. It certainly gave me some useful ideas. My old brewery was built in 2010 using Metcalfe kits 1 Brewery .jpg I did contemplate re-using some of the buildings but decided against it. They are very attractive models but perhaps a little small for Granby. They have become so popular that they are immediately recognisable. I wanted something a little different. Scalescene Warehouse kits are very flexible and I think I can create that sense of mass so typical of Victorian buildings: 4a Scalescene.jpg Within the confines of the site and allowing for the modular nature of Scalescene Warehouse I intend to make two principal buildings. A warehouse/bottling plant that will be three stories high and a brewhouse that will be narrower and taller with 5 stories. There will be assorted ancillary buildings….Cooperage, Boiler House, Water Tower etc but these will come later. Here is the track layout and some scale mock ups 5 B track 2 .jpg 6 Plan.jpg 7 Mockup.jpg 8 Mockup close up.jpg The modified Metcalfe unit, on the left, will serve as the Brewer's House, Offices and the Brewery Tap. Right now I need advice and input on where the various brewing processes would be allocated to the two principal buildings From the link I have summarised the distinct processes as follows Malting: Barley is steeped in water for 3 days. The germinated barley is turned and dried 7-14 days and then roasted All this took place in a separate building. Some breweries had a Maltings on site, others bought the malted grain in. I dont think I have enough space for a separate Malting building so the malt barley will be bought in Milling Malt Barley ….Milled and ground …... Grist Mashing Grist mixed with hot water in Mash Tun. Mixture stays in tun at controlled temperature for 2-3 hours to become wort Boiling the Wort Wort is run off, mixed with Hops and boiled in a Copper for two hours Cooling the Wort Wort is sieved (hop waste is sold) and cooled Fermentation Yeast added and fermented for three days in large open containers (wood/copper/stone ) Surplus yeast is skimmed off and sold Racking Beer run off from fermenting vessels into conditioning tanks. Finings clear any remaining yeast Finally transferred to Barrels or bottled. The brewhouses or towers were designed to to take advantage of gravity…...raw materials were hauled to the top using a sack hoist along with water pumped from a tower or reservoir. On completion of a process it was dropped down to the next floor finishing up with beer ready to be bottled/barrelled on the ground floor. And yet…..some of these processes require significant ventilation…... cooling the wort (in the middle of the cycle) according to the document was sited near the top of the tower for just that purpose I am not proposing to have highly detailed interiors but I need to have a rough idea of where the processes would likely have taken place in the configuration I am planning. This will dictate whether I have windows or vents and at what floor I locate the external corridor connecting the two buildings that will convey both product and people etc.. Right now I am guessing on the following: WAREHOUSE BREW HOUSE Floor 5 (Tower) NA Mashing Floor 4 NA Boiling the Wort Floor 3 Conditioning Corridor Cooling the Wort Floor 2 Racking/Bottling Fermentation Ground Storage and Distribuition Receiving and Milling Total guesswork I am afraid…….. I would really appreciate any advice. Best wishes from Vancouver John John The top floor was normally used for Wort cooling if horizontal coolers were used, but if Vertical coolers were used then the top floor would have the Hot Liquor tanks and grist bin and wort receiver, ( water in breweries is used for washing down, Hot and Cold liquor is used for brewing) In most cases the grist bin was mounted directly above the Mashing machine which was built into the top of the Mash Tun cover or in a wooden topped Tun sitting on the edge of the Tun Hot liquor and Grist were mixed together in the mashing machine at the correct brewing temperature. After the mashing time had elapsed the wort was rum off through the false bottom plates to a tap box down to the Copper, here the Hops were added normally by hand, after the boil off was complete the Copper was Cast into the Hop Back and allowed to settle, again the wort was drained off through the false bottom plates and pumped to the horizontal coolers if used or to a wort receiver if vertical coolers were used and the fed by gravity to the Fermenting vessels where yeast was added. As yeast grows during fermentation there is always excess yeast, before modern bottom fermenting yeast were invented the spare yeast was collected by lorries and went to make Marmite. Before the advent of Stainless Steel every thing in breweries was either Copper or Brass, it used to take approx. 6 weeks to make a Copper and about the same to make a Copper Mash tun cover. I know I have made a few! Of course all that has now changed and breweries are built on two levels and the wort etc is all pumped. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ianLMS Posted November 20, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2017 Here is the link to the local brewery in Suffolk which may have additional information to help. I can definately recommend the brewery tour and beer cafe! https://www.greeneking.co.uk/our-beers/greene-king-brewery/ Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Here are some images of Harveys Brewery Lewes East Sussex . Link https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=harveys+brewery+images&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRg7nfxc3XAhUoLcAKHbfCD2oQsAQIJQ&biw=1600&bih=767 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrompton Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Nice idea for layout, as is this one here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124136-gone-for-a-burton/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted November 22, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2017 Thanks again guys for all the information......much appreciated. I am getting a much clearer idea of what goes where......and a load of places I would like to visit......always provided I can convince Mrs D Best Wishes John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 A couple of other possibilities, I you are staying in the south of England: - Adnam's Sole Bay brewery at Southwold in Suffolk; and, - Fuller's Griffin Brewery at Chiswick, which is probably the nearest to Central London, if you stay there. I'd still say that Hook Norton is tops fo its location and the originality of the building, followed closely by Harvey's. There was another extremely good one not fa south of Guildford (at Hindhead?), but I can't remember who owned it, and can no longer find reference to it, so maybe it's closed. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Try a Google image search of railways around Burton on Trent, the town was riddled with rail connected brewery buildings and there are some wonderful back street scenes worth copying. This book covers mainline and some of the brewery lines, with good maps and b&w pictures https://www.amazon.co.uk/Railways-around-Burton-Trent/dp/1899624287 This book is out of print but still around, at a price! https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/brewery-railways-of-burton-on-trent/author/cliff-shepherd/first-edition/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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