Caledonian Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 What's amazing about looking at this is the sudden cull after WWII, I guess the arrival of the 'austerity' tanks en masse was the end for many of the worn out old classes. Frank Jones makes this very point in his book and I have to say its a no-brainer. Why go to say Frazer's at Hebburn [the site of this well-known used-locomotive emporium still exists, though alas no sign of any left-over stock] for some clapped-out cast-off when you can buy a sturdy and powerful modern Austerity on the cheap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted November 2, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2017 In addition, was colliery and industrial production running down after the war effort, and so there was less need for locos at all? I don't know but it seems possible. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 2, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2017 In addition, was colliery and industrial production running down after the war effort, and so there was less need for locos at all? I don't know but it seems possible. Jonathan I suspect that production on both counts was being pushed as hard as possible, given the massive export drive after WW2 and things like the harsh winter of 1947 (?). I'd have thought that the real run-down started in the 1950s. It's interesting to note in one of the Gordon Edgar books, that the MoD depot at Long Marston, Warwickshire, was used as a kind of 'clearing house' for Austerity tanks for a while. Manson '160' class in industrial service: https://www.flickr.com/photos/36891793@N08/10229730825/in/photolist-gzY3zp-dF93d7-9YFB6G-dKh6Qw-aMYLNX-ViHNcg-XHt8yE-ELJtWE-9YCHdH-fcRrnJ-9YFANh-e1HJmN-bgoQni-fvLspE-m55jPp-9YFBdb-9YFAGm-9YCHpn-9YCHwc-kyDmGX-CCaf5y-9YCHBv-dHAYGh-9YFBDY-e1HJn5-9YFAU1-eFxpdj-9YFzMG-frfWwu-deSUEG-dzdmVk-tAJ2y-p4AGRd-qkUK92-qkTkbB-qCjUjk-cs9zQU-f3zgs1-d7ymWb-86ocAi-hcpZ6j-dPAQL5-9YBsYg-dzj1J5-Wzmyg5-rSGCzE-rgT6Mu-yaGwFj-rf8dd6-ryrG4a https://www.flickr.com/photos/36891793@N08/13173245093/in/photolist-m55jPp-9YFBdb-9YFAGm-9YCHpn-9YCHwc-kyDmGX-CCaf5y-9YCHBv-dHAYGh-9YFBDY-e1HJn5-9YFAU1-ViHNcg-XHt8yE-eFxpdj-ELJtWE-9YFzMG-frfWwu-deSUEG-dzdmVk-cs9zQU-f3zgs1-d7ymWb-86ocAi-hcpZ6j-dPAQL5-9YBsYg-tAJ2y-dzj1J5-Wzmyg5-rSGCzE-rgT6Mu-yaGwFj-p4AGRd-rf8dd6-ryrG4a-ys6x6y-ysgVeD-xToqdw-ypXjcd-yKsxUM-yGoe2Y-yKsjtt-yaF2Kd-ypXj73-rgkP1t-B24ete-qkUK92-qkTkbB-qCjUjk Very interesting photos, but I always find the idea of tender locos in industrial service slightly incongruous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 In addition, was colliery and industrial production running down after the war effort, and so there was less need for locos at all? I don't know but it seems possible. Jonathan I agree with the gallant captain on this one [aren't all captains gallant?] the issue wasn't production running down, but rather the rationalisation which came from nationalisation. This is discussed in Brotchie's book on the Wemyss Private Railway, but essentially the grouping of hitherto independent collieries into areas led to centralisation of workshops, a great clear-out of rubbish [a major reason for the diversity of sales was the economic slump of the inter-war years and the need for collieries to buy cheap second hand locos] and an unprecedented degree of standardisation of stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 (edited) I came across, purely by chance, a picture of another tender locomotive in industrial service. It's an ex-GER J15 (GER#690, LNER#7690), sold in 1938 by the LNER to Bairds and Scottish Steel for use in their operations in Lanarkshire and numbered '1' at that time. Bairds and Scottish Steel were nationalised in 1951. The picture shown the engine, still with "Bairds & Scottish Steel Ltd" on the tender, outside Cowlairs Works in June 1957, waiting to be taken inside for attention. The caption says the engine was taken out of service in 1958. The picture is in "Steam Days" for June 2012. (Edit - apologies, I see this loco was mentioned in post#23 above.) Edited November 6, 2017 by pH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted November 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 5, 2017 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 The Middleton Railway has a North Eastern H class 0-4-0ST 1310 which the LNER sold to a colliery in the North East. It ended the days with NCB lettering before being preserved. Many industries and light railways hired in motive power. An agreement existed for the LMS 1F 41708 which was based at Barrow Hill for the Staveley company. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staveley_Coal_and_Iron_Company Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevejjjexcov Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I was told years ago that one of the collieries in Coventry had an ex GWR 15xx pannier tank. I have no idea how true this is or what happened to it. All the best Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2018 I was told years ago that one of the collieries in Coventry had an ex GWR 15xx pannier tank. I have no idea how true this is or what happened to it. All the best Steve Coventry Colliery. BR-built Nos. 1501/2/9, bought in 1962 and disposed of in 1970, replacing a number of older engines including an ex-Barry Railway 0-6-0T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 The Bairds and Scottish J15 also worked out onto the main line. It was nominally based at Gartsherrie Iron Works (Coatbridge), but was permitted to work over BR metals to the nearby Northburn Iron Works which was just to the east of Kipps Shed. I remember seeing it at Sunnyside Junction from a passing class 303 around 1960. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 The Bairds and Scottish J15 also worked out onto the main line. It was nominally based at Gartsherrie Iron Works (Coatbridge), but was permitted to work over BR metals to the nearby Northburn Iron Works which was just to the east of Kipps Shed. I remember seeing it at Sunnyside Junction from a passing class 303 around 1960. Jim Someone's doing a little time travelling here ! ............. the AM3 'Blue Trains' were introduced in 1960 - according to the ever-reliable Wikipedia - yet the J15 "was taken out of service in 1958" .................. I'd guess you saw it from a steamy train !!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 I agree with the gallant captain on this one [aren't all captains gallant?] the issue wasn't production running down, but rather the rationalisation which came from nationalisation. This is discussed in Brotchie's book on the Wemyss Private Railway, but essentially the grouping of hitherto independent collieries into areas led to centralisation of workshops, a great clear-out of rubbish [a major reason for the diversity of sales was the economic slump of the inter-war years and the need for collieries to buy cheap second hand locos] and an unprecedented degree of standardisation of stock Most captains are gallant, but that bloke on that Italian cruise liner wasn't... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 Several GW 57xx panniers ended up in NCB service in South Wales, 7754 and 9600 are examples. 7754 got around a bit, but 9600 worked exclusively at Merthyr Vale colliery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Another instance of this is the disposal of steam locos by the Metropolitan. There is no mention of the 4-4-0 tanks that were sold to the Cambrian (or any other main-line railway), although those that went to collieries are listed. The author must have judged that the Nidd Valley Light Railway and the West Somerset Mineral Railway count as industrial because those, too, are included. the nidd valley was industrial as it was a contractor line to build reservoirs, also another of those met 4-4-0 tanks went to the North Wales Granite Co ex met No 34, Beyer Peacock of 1879 2-6-2 mersey tank went to Whitwood Colliery, i cant find sources stating exactly where so it must be Whitwood in Castleford ex Mersey No 18 "Banstead", Kitson of 1892 ex Mersey no 25, Newport & South Wales dock, BP of 1887 ex NER long boiler, saddle tank rebuild "Mars", middleton railway Ex NER 959, Manning Wardle of 1873, Birtchburn Colliery Edited April 3, 2018 by sir douglas 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Three LNWR coal engines to col. Stephens for the S&M Cecil Raikes from the Wirrel to the coal board. Wasn't there an LNWR 0-6-0 to the Bishops Castle Railway? (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2018 Wasn't there an LNWR 0-6-0 to the Bishops Castle Railway? (CJL) Not a LNWR engine but a Kitson-built engine of 1868. As the previous post said, three 17" Coal Engines to the Shopshire & Montgomeryshire in Col. Stephens days. Then there were three of Ramsbottom's DXs sold to the East & West Junction Railway (one of the constituents of the Stratford-upon-Avon & Midland Junction Railway). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 the nidd valley was industrial as it was a contractor line to build reservoirs, also another of those met 4-4-0 tanks went to the North Wales Granite Co ex met No 34, Beyer Peacock of 1879 BP 1878 - 1879 NW granite Conway ex met 34.jpg 2-6-2 mersey tank went to Whitwood Colliery, i cant find sources stating exactly where so it must be Whitwood in Castleford ex Mersey No 18 "Banstead", Kitson of 1892 kitson 3394 - 1892 whitwood coll ex mersey.png ex Mersey no 25, Newport & South Wales dock, BP of 1887 BP - 1887 mersey No 25 newport & south wales dock.jpg ex NER long boiler, saddle tank rebuild "Mars", middleton railway NER mars.JPG Ex NER 959, Manning Wardle of 1873, Birtchburn Colliery MW 467 - 1873 birtchburn coll ex NER 959.png Whitwood colliery was on the western side of Castleford close to present M62 J 31. Briggs &co bought two, Dorothy and Whitwood. Both were cut up circa 1947. Noone is quite sure why they were required unless it was to bank loaded trains climbing out onto the L&Y towards Goole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 The Jinty is at the top of page 92, but I think you're right about the LT panniers. Perhaps this is because London Transport is not strictly "industry", but it seems a bit pedantic to omit it. Not sure that the jinty was ever an NCB loco. The opencast mines and associated concentration points were run by private contractors on behalf of the Open Cast Executive. In this case Peppers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Not sure that the jinty was ever an NCB loco. The opencast mines and associated concentration points were run by private contractors on behalf of the Open Cast Executive. In this case Peppers. Crigglestone open cast disposal point operated by Hargreaves had one and I'm sure Bachmann produced one! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 In addition, was colliery and industrial production running down after the war effort, and so there was less need for locos at all? I don't know but it seems possible. Jonathan I don't have production figures to hand, but the loss of traditional markets was more than compensated by the growth of the National Grid and the new generation of coal fired power stations. Rapid loaded MGR trains didnt really make an impact until the mid 70s. Coal was moved to riverside wharves and waste to increasingly distant tips. Ariel tipping became less common after Aberfan. Many of the early 20 th century locos survived until the mid / late 60s being replaced by diesels. This is only my local reflection, other areas may differ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Whitwood colliery was on the western side of Castleford close to present M62 J 31. Briggs &co bought two, Dorothy and Whitwood. Both were cut up circa 1947. Noone is quite sure why they were required unless it was to bank loaded trains climbing out onto the L&Y towards Goole. thanks for the clarification that it was whitwood, castleford, i know exactly where it is but couldnt find any source that clarified that the mersey tanks were at that whitwood and not possibly any other place called whitwood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 British oak orange jinty 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) British oak orange jinty Complete with a former Liverpool Corporation hopper. Mark Saunders Edit for wagon origin Edited June 11, 2018 by Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 thanks for the clarification that it was whitwood, castleford, i know exactly where it is but couldnt find any source that clarified that the mersey tanks were at that whitwood and not possibly any other place called whitwood Good photos of both in Castleford Colliery Railways by the late Ron Rockett. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Crigglestone open cast disposal point operated by Hargreaves had one and I'm sure Bachmann produced one! Mark Saunders Thanks."disposal point". Could not remember the term Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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