Andrew Barclay 14" & 16" 0-4-0ST in OO Gauge

[davknigh]

Not if they are going to deliver it at the dates suggested they won't. This model is very near completion and so a complete redesign of the chassis isn't likely.

 

As Dave has said, the chassis is a compromise between fidelity and good running. More to the point though, as the prototype photos on this thread have shown, if there is daylight visible on the prototype then it's a very, very tiny amount, too small to show in the photos. Having seen the model for real, I'd say they have got it right enough.

 

"Daylight" was perhaps a bad way to describe what I was looking for, it was more a matter of being able to see the curve of the boiler go back as far as possible. Unfortunately for Hattons, Hornby set the bar very high when they did the Pecketts and that is the standard I am judging them by. OTOH now that Chris Gibbon is interested in a possible conversion chassis I may get one anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[High Level Kits]

The bottom of the boiler would probably be etched, like on High Level loco kits.

[High Level Kits]

"Daylight" was perhaps a bad way to describe what I was looking for, it was more a matter of being able to see the curve of the boiler go back as far as possible. Unfortunately for Hattons, Hornby set the bar very high when they did the Pecketts and that is the standard I am judging them by. OTOH now that Chris Gibbon is interested in a possible conversion chassis I may get one anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

David

David, it would depend on the availabilty of the bodies.

[Unknown Warrior]

I do sense a lot of twisted nicker elastic over the lack of daylight under the boiler. I have been trawling through my archive relating to the two Andrew Barclays in our care at the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway: 14 inch Ferrybridge No. 3, now know as "Brian Harrison," after the person who bought it for Preservation, Works number 2360, built 1954. Restored to working order and entered traffic in 2010. Currently operational. 16 inch Henry Ellison, works number 2217, built 1947, also operational, entered traffic 2012 and is rostered for a footplate experience course and then passenger traffic on Saturday 23rd September. Probably the last steaming of the season..

 

Close examination of the photos should convince all but the hardened pedants that from most angles the absence of daylight under the boiler on the Hattons' model is neither here nor there. In my view Hattons are right to have made sure that these locos can shift prototypical length trains. We have used both our Barclays from time to time to time to rearrange stock in the yard which can result in long, heavy consists, including type 2/3 diesels on complex track layouts, which they have always succeeded in doing more than adequately.

 

My order for "Katie" stands. Having helped to overhaul and now maintain and operate the EVR's two Barclays, I may be a little biased but I am also confident that I will actually end up with a model, unlike the pre-order I placed with my local Hornby Stockist for a Peckett, which he was unable to fulfill as he didn't receive any at all!

 

The eagle eyed among you will note that we have modified both locos to cope with the rigors of passenger traffic. They were after all designed for shunting and not for a 17 mile round trip with passenger stock at 10 to 15 mph. We have therefor fitted mechanical lubricators to supply the needs of the axle boxes and the pistons, two different oils, so two lubricators.

 

It is my understanding that our 14 inch and 16 inch Barclays have the same size frames. The result is that the larger boiler of the 16 inch takes up more space in the cab, which is the same size on both locos. We have a special shorten shovel for firing the 16 inch! 

 

One question for Dave: "How easy is it to remove the cabs, as if i want to replicate the two EVR ABs, I will need to indulge in some fairly drastic surgery

 

Hope the attached photos are useful..

[Norton961]

I would have a High Level chassis for the Barcley even when buying a complete loco as I need mine to be P4.

There is already development work on a replacement chassis kit for the Pecket for those of us who want a P4 chassis.

So Chris, give some thought to developing an etched chassis kit for the Barcley anyway.

 

David

[Zero Gravitas]

Admittedly I don't own a Peckett (yet) so I'm open to be wrong on the block. All photos I can find online of the model do not show the daylight at all - even then it's still hidden behind pipework.

 

I'll support Hattons and the compromise, but I also respect those who think the model could be better as I don't know the prototype enough.

 

Maybe if Hattons announced their intentions earlier in the design phase these things might have been possible to rectify.

Oh god, I hate myself for allowing myself to get dragged into this... Below is a side view of a peckett standing on MRJ standing on a lampshade against the window in my spare room. There's more light coming through under the cab floor than under the boiler... So my position is that unless your entire layout is set at eye level on a embankment against a bright sky, this is unlikely to be too much of a problem. And the Barclay is lovely, and I've ordered one.

[maq1988]

When you do get one you'll be able to do this with it.  

 

 

P

 

 

I stand (well, sit) corrected, I assume it's standard 80gsm printing paper? That means the gap beneath the boiler must be at least 0.1mm. I don't want to do the mathematics to work out that in 4mm:1ft scale.

 

Also - now I know how I can clean dust out from underneath the boiler when I get one!

 

I now leave this thread to get back on track (pun intended) and hopefully see some more prototype pictures to get inspired.

Edited September 14, 2017 by maq1988

[Porcy Mane]

David, it would depend on the availabilty of the bodies.

 

I bet there would be plenty prepared to buy the complete model to put an etched chassis under it. Then ebay the original chassis. Likewise I'll bet there will be plenty prepared to buy the Hattons chassis as it looks pretty good to fit under other projects.

 

P

[Zero Gravitas]

I stand (well, sit) corrected, I assume it's standard 80gsm printing paper? That means the gap beneath the boiler must be at least 0.1mm. I don't want to do the mathematics to work out that in 4mm:1ft scale.

 

Also - now I know how I can clean dust out from underneath the boiler when I get one!

 

0.1 mm is 4 thou or 0.004 inches. So full size would be 0.004 x 76 = 0.304 inches...

[davknigh]

David, it would depend on the availabilty of the bodies.

Not a problem Chris. I can find a good home for the redundant bits as will others as Porcy has already suggested. Come to that, I can save them and use them when running on 00 track. Two engines for the price of one (and a kit)!

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Steamport Southport]

I hope they do make bodies available. Then I could model Thomas Muir's.

 

 

   

 

 

 

Jason

[Porcy Mane]

I stand (well, sit) corrected, I assume it's standard 80gsm printing paper? That means the gap beneath the boiler must be at least 0.1mm.

 

Actchooally it's a bit of card. A slice cut from the card header on a pack  of Rumney Models F.03A Bolsters for a BBC Diagram 1/477. My recently calibrated Mitutoyo caliper (confirmed by my Moore & Wright  [i'm backing  Britain] Micrometer) tells me it is 0.243 mm thick. I'll let you do the conversion to gsm.   

 

Don't let anyone tell you I can't do pedantic.

 

So to put my serious head on for a mo.

I don't think it's the lack of daylight that is seen as a problem. More that some folk have expressed a view they would have preferred to see a better representation of the boiler bottom rather than what we are going to get. Having said that I think most that have mentioned the boiler bottom fully understand the compromises that have had to be made in bringing the model to market.

Some people seem to have interpreted the mentioning of "the Wall" as a criticism or a suggestion that it existence will make Hattons AB a poor or disappointing model. Reading through the thread I don't think that is the case at all.  It's just been a matter of people enquiring and looking for clarification. All credit to Hatton's Dave for answering a load of questions when I'm sure he has more important things to do with work time.

 

With the fine design & sales success of Hornby's Peckett it was only a matter of time until another manufacturer would introduce a complimentary (notice I didn't say rival) product and now that has happened and even though very few of us have handled the AB, it's inevitable that comparisons will be drawn.

 

So with the thread barely a few days old and well over thirteen thousand views what have I learnt so far.

 

Hattons are introducing an Andrew Barclay 0-4-0 industrial locomotive.

 

There's going to be different versions and multiple liveries.

 

We shouldn't have long to wait for it to be on sale.

 

The EP photographs show what look to be an excellent and well engineered RTR model in the making.

 

There will be plenty to go around.

 

Spares should be available.

 

It'll cost £99.00

 

It looks like an after market chassis may become available. (For those that crave such luxuries).

 

Some of us would have like to have seen some things done differently but understand the reasons why they weren't.

 

They will sell by the shed load and some of us are wetting ourselves in anticipation.

 

Ok my serious head started working a little loose as I got towards the end but you'll get my gist.

 

All in all, Jolly good show, Hattons

 

P

 

And notice i didn't mention the chimney or the availability of after market wheels. (ooops!)

Edited September 14, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[maq1988]

About 245gsm! Please take the banter as a bit of light hearted humour after your video.

 

I agree that the Peckett set the standards high. I didn't think it'd sell as well as it did and that's why I don't have one.

 

For a first crack at a model (or second depending on when they decided about the P Class) it's an excellent start.

 

All credit to Hattons for taking the plunge and bringing what will hopefully prove to be a great seller. As someone who enjoys industrial steam than mainline I welcome any new little locos.

 

I'll repeat myself for an O gauge version.... 

[Caledonian]

Well, yes it could be a big chassis block in there, but the point I was making is that in some of these prototype photos, as you say, you don't actually see anything, whereas in the photos of the pre-production model, you do see, very clearly, the slab of the chassis block.

 

The key thing for me now will be to make the 'slab of chassis block' as invisible as possible. Painting it matt black or a very dark grey might help. Perhaps some additional detritus posed on the running plate will help, such as a freelance additional toolbox, or an oil can, or even an oil lamp purloined from the 'main line'.

 

The Aberdeen Gas Works ones used to go outside; to collect coal from the docks and deliver tanks of ammonia to the local fertiliser works amongst other things. This meant running through the streets with no convenient sityated coaling stages, so in addition to the "detritus" mentioned, they tended to carry a couple of 1 cwt sacks of coal on the running plate, to top up the pile in the cab

[Porcy Mane]

About 245gsm! Please take the banter as a bit of light hearted humour after your video.

 

I do.

 

P

[Ruston]

A question about the Caledonian Railway liveried version - looking at the chart it shows this one as being w/n 1863. As 1863 wasn't built until after the CR had ceased to exist (1926) and was new to the British Sugar Corporation, what's the connection with 1863 and the CR?

[Tim Hall]

...photographs of sausages. 

What could be wurst?

[49395]

A question about the Caledonian Railway liveried version - looking at the chart it shows this one as being w/n 1863. As 1863 wasn't built until after the CR had ceased to exist (1926) and was new to the British Sugar Corporation, what's the connection with 1863 and the CR?

It currently resides on the 'Caledonian Railway' in Brechin, I've yet to find a photo of it in blue, but I'm sure I've read somewhere it was painted like that up until about 10 years ago

[Caledonian]

It currently resides on the 'Caledonian Railway' in Brechin, I've yet to find a photo of it in blue, but I'm sure I've read somewhere it was painted like that up until about 10 years ago

 

And from page 1 of this thread:

 

H4-AB14-004 14” 1863 in Caledonian Railways lined blue 1990s - 2005

 

 

I've had a look for this livery but all I can find on Google is a plain black with very strikingly large block C [long space] R

Edited September 14, 2017 by Caledonian

[JohnR]

A question about the Caledonian Railway liveried version - looking at the chart it shows this one as being w/n 1863. As 1863 wasn't built until after the CR had ceased to exist (1926) and was new to the British Sugar Corporation, what's the connection with 1863 and the CR?

This loco was sent new to the Sugar Beet factory at Cupar in Fife. She was in regular used until the late 1960s when it was replaced by a diesel, and left at the back of the Factory. Following closure in 1980, it was bought for preservation and used on the Caledonian Railway at Brechin. Running in plain green, it operated short trips out from Brechin station while the line was being extended to Bridge of Dun. BY the time the line reached BoD in 1992, it had fallen out of use.

 

Following a change of hands in 1996, it was overhauled at Brechin and out shopped in 1999 in this livery, in which it ran on trains from Brechin to Bridge of Dun until 2009 when its 10 year ticket expired. After its overhaul, it came out in 2012 in a plain black livery with CR on the tanks (an approximation of Caledonian goods black livery). 

 

Hope this helps. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by JohnR

[davknigh]

Well, despite sounding a tad fussy in previous posts I've gone and ordered "Coronation" 'cos 1/ I think any move to bring small engines to the fore is a good one and should be supported, and 2/ If there's some modelling involved to get it "right", that's why I'm in this hobby, innit?

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Porcy Mane]

AB 2361 of 1954 "WST". Bowes Railway Sunday 27 July 2011. Late Cab.

 

 

P

[gridwatcher]

Lots of opinions being flung around but I am delighted (and I am a diesel modeller, almost 100%) that this huge gap has been filled, congrats to Hattons. A 6 coupled one would be just Dandy too and then an 06 too please........

[Hroth]

I do sense a lot of twisted nicker elastic over the lack of daylight under the boiler. I have been trawling through my archive relating to the two Andrew Barclays in our care at the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway: 14 inch Ferrybridge No. 3, now know as "Brian Harrison," after the person who bought it for Preservation, Works number 2360, built 1954. Restored to working order and entered traffic in 2010. Currently operational. 16 inch Henry Ellison, works number 2217, built 1947, also operational, entered traffic 2012 and is rostered for a footplate experience course and then passenger traffic on Saturday 23rd September. Probably the last steaming of the season..

 

Close examination of the photos should convince all but the hardened pedants that from most angles the absence of daylight under the boiler on the Hattons' model is neither here nor there. In my view Hattons are right to have made sure that these locos can shift prototypical length trains. We have used both our Barclays from time to time to time to rearrange stock in the yard which can result in long, heavy consists, including type 2/3 diesels on complex track layouts, which they have always succeeded in doing more than adequately.

 

My order for "Katie" stands. Having helped to overhaul and now maintain and operate the EVR's two Barclays, I may be a little biased but I am also confident that I will actually end up with a model, unlike the pre-order I placed with my local Hornby Stockist for a Peckett, which he was unable to fulfill as he didn't receive any at all!

 

The eagle eyed among you will note that we have modified both locos to cope with the rigors of passenger traffic. They were after all designed for shunting and not for a 17 mile round trip with passenger stock at 10 to 15 mph. We have therefor fitted mechanical lubricators to supply the needs of the axle boxes and the pistons, two different oils, so two lubricators.

 

It is my understanding that our 14 inch and 16 inch Barclays have the same size frames. The result is that the larger boiler of the 16 inch takes up more space in the cab, which is the same size on both locos. We have a special shorten shovel for firing the 16 inch! 

 

One question for Dave: "How easy is it to remove the cabs, as if i want to replicate the two EVR ABs, I will need to indulge in some fairly drastic surgery

 

Hope the attached photos are useful..

Like the pic of No 3 on a low loader.

 

A modeller could always invest in a Hattons "Warwell" and put a 14" Barclay on one of those for running on their main layout if they don't have space for an industrial siding!

 

Ok.  Time for coffee - I've obviously not got my thinking head on!  

[PenrithBeacon]

AB 2361 of 1954 "WST". Bowes Railway Sunday 27 July 2011. Late Cab.

 

BowesRlyJul1136-EditSm.jpg

 

P

This is the one I decided to order on the basis that for a fantasy layout it would be the easiest to modify.

If HL do decide to do a chassis kit so much the better.

Regards