Anyone Interested in Ships

[KeithMacdonald]

29 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

The easiest solution is weather routing to avoid the problem but some charterers and owners are loathe to do that even though not doing so is a classic potential save a penny, lose a pound scenario.

 

That rings a bell. You would think (or hope) that history had taught a lesson.

 

Quote

The North Atlantic liners prioritised time-keeping above all other considerations, sticking rigidly to a schedule that would guarantee their arrival at an advertised time. They were frequently operated at close to their full speed, treating hazard warnings as advisories rather than calls to action. It was widely believed that ice posed little risk; close calls were not uncommon, and even head-on collisions had not been disastrous. In 1907, SS Kronprinz Wilhelm, a German liner, had rammed an iceberg and suffered a crushed bow, but was still able to complete her voyage. That same year, Titanic's future captain, Edward Smith, declared in an interview that he could not "imagine any condition which would cause a ship to founder. Modern shipbuilding has gone beyond that.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Titanic#Iceberg_warnings

[jjb1970]

A few box boats in Pasir Panjang last week, smaller ones compared to the big ones earlier in the thread.

 

[jjb1970]

4 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

That rings a bell. You would think (or hope) that history had taught a lesson.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Titanic#Iceberg_warnings

 

I was fortunate in my sea career to work for companies that for the most part stood behind their masters in terms of passage planning and avoiding severe weather when possible. I say fortunate and not lucky as I made a conscious decision to apply for jobs with companies with a good reputation for safety and welfare, that tended to carry a salary penalty. As a general tip, if a company offers way more to do basically the same job it's worth considering why that might be so, some companies do pay well above average to attract the right people but those tend to be very selective, others do it because they have to to get people to work for such companies.

[62613]

19 hours ago, Bon Accord said:

 

DENIZHANTRIO has nearly the right flags but in the wrong positions.
I had a look through my own collection for a good illustration of how it should be and have attached a picture of CHAKDARA.

 

In this picture she's departing Durban and about to disembark her pilot off the Bluff via the ladder visible beneath the bridge.

As can be seen, her jackstaff (at the bow) is empty, as is correct: jacks should be hauled down as soon as the last mooring line is let go.

At the truck of the foremast can be seen her courtesy flag: that of South Africa at the time

On the triatic stay can be seen code flag H "I have a pilot onboard". The triatic stay was basically a wire run from the foremast to either the mainmast or the funnel top, depending on the vessel. The triatic stay normally had a number of halyards bent on to it, other flags to be seen in this position would be code Q (I am healthy and request free pratique), code G (I require a pilot), the ship's callsign (four letters) or any other one, two or three flag hoist for signalling using international code.

At the truck of the mainmast can be seen the houseflag of her owners: British India Line.

Down aft can be seen her ensign in the in port/alongside position. When at sea this would be moved to the 'at sea' position, which was the gaff on the mainmast.**

As can be seen there is a yardarm mounted on her foremast. As these ships often carried mails, if so carried the Royal Mail pennant would be flown from the starboard outer halyard. If she also carried dangerous goods code flag B would also be flown either starboard outer or port outer depending on whether the mail pennant was up. Additionally it was historical practice for many ships to fly a name pennant, this usually being a plain white pennant with the ship's name on it in large black letters - this was usually easier to read from a distance than the name on the bow/stern. This name pennant would usually be placed where it wouldn't be in the way of other flags. In home waters it would be flown from the truck of the foremast.

 

**There were two schools of thought with regard to the position of the ensign. Some had it that as soon as a vessel was underway (i.e not at anchor or fast to the quay or a buoy) then the ensign should be moved immediately from the ensign staff on the poop to the gaff. Others held that this should not occur until the vessel was at sea, i.e. cleared port limits. In any event when at sea the ensign should be worn from the gaff.

 

When in port there was a whole ornate procedure to be followed when raising/lowering flags at 0800 or sunset, but I won't confuse matters by going into that in this post.

 

Needless to say flag etiquette has suffered in the modern age through reduced manning levels onboard, modern ship design, modern working practices, budgetary economies, ignorance and indifference.

Only an ever decreasing band of SOGs can still provide chapter and verse on how it was/should be done.

(SOG - silly old gits)

As far as I can recall, in BP tankers the ensign was worn on the ensign staff on the poop, even when on passage. This was in the 1970s, on both midships and all aft ships. It was, of course, struck at sunset and broken out at sunrise. I can remember the ensign being dipped to a Swedish warship in The Sound once

Edited Sunday at 20:23 by 62613

[Bon Accord]

2 hours ago, 62613 said:

As far as I can recall, in BP tankers the ensign was worn on the ensign staff on the poop, even when on passage. This was in the 1970s, on both midships and all aft ships. It was, of course, struck at sunset and broken out at sunrise. I can remember the ensign being dipped to a Swedish warship in The Sound once

 

A lot of them weren't fitted with gaffs on the mainmast for some reason and there were variations as to who had or didn't even amongst the classes.

As I remember the Trees and Rivers did have them, the R class didn't but most of the earlier VLCCs did and so on. Even then I remember quite a few ships didn't have the ensign staff on the poop deck level itself, but on the next deck above.

I was in one of the Rivers (maybe Tamar, could have been Esk) where we did an MOD exercise and the Old Man had an enormous ensign hanging off the mast throughout, probably a 5 yarder thinking about it. This might have been partly to wind up the RFA people so it was quite likely Jim MacAlpine; him of "it's MacAlpine's way or it's the highway", usually uttered when you'd upset him about something.

[NorthBrit]

5 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

She is one BEAUTIFUL ship!

 

Belonged to British India Steam Navigation Company.

 

Base data at 12 October 1951. Compiled November 2009 * indicates entries changed during P&O Group service. Type General cargo liner P&O Group service 1951-1972 P&O Group status Owned by subsidiary company Former name(s) Registered owners, managers* and operators* British India Steam Navigation Company Ltd Builders Barclay, Curle & Co Ltd Yard Whiteinch, Glasgow Country UK Yard number 722 Registry London, UK Official number 184514 Call sign GFSG IMO/LR number 5067766 Classification society Lloyd’s Register Gross tonnage 7,132 grt Net tonnage 4,027 nrt Deadweight 9,650 tons Length 147.67m (484.5ft) loa; 141.73m (465.0ft) b/p Breadth 19.17m (62.9ft) Depth 12.43m (40.8ft) Draught 8.290m (27.2ft) Engines 6-cylinder 2 SCSA Doxford diesel engine Engine builders Barclay, Curle & Co Ltd Works Whiteinch, Glasgow Country UK Power 6,800 bhp Propulsion Single screw Speed 14.5 knots (service); 16.99 knots (trials) Passenger capacity 12 Cargo capacity 15,673 cubic metres (553,490 cubic feet) including 346 cubic metres (12,250 cubic feet) insulated Crew Employment Far Eastern and Australian services

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

She is one BEAUTIFUL ship!

It's the sheer that does it for me.

[J. S. Bach]

5 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

A few box boats in Pasir Panjang last week, smaller ones compared to the big ones earlier in the thread.

They sure look strange without the boxes!

[J. S. Bach]

28 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

It's the sheer that does it for me.

For me it is the deckhouse (the right term?) design also. Well on second thought, there are just too many details to like!

[62613]

9 hours ago, Bon Accord said:

 

A lot of them weren't fitted with gaffs on the mainmast for some reason and there were variations as to who had or didn't even amongst the classes.

As I remember the Trees and Rivers did have them, the R class didn't but most of the earlier VLCCs did and so on. Even then I remember quite a few ships didn't have the ensign staff on the poop deck level itself, but on the next deck above.

I was in one of the Rivers (maybe Tamar, could have been Esk) where we did an MOD exercise and the Old Man had an enormous ensign hanging off the mast throughout, probably a 5 yarder thinking about it. This might have been partly to wind up the RFA people so it was quite likely Jim MacAlpine; him of "it's MacAlpine's way or it's the highway", usually uttered when you'd upset him about something.

The dipped ensign was on the Liberty, my first ship, and the only trip I did in the Baltic. Christmas and New Year in Lulea and Pitea; brrrrrrr!

[The Johnster]

21 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

She is one BEAUTIFUL ship!

 

Agreed.  The 50s and 60s seem to have been a golden age for British merchant shipping in terms of looks.

 

 

 

This one's a favourite, Stricks' Kohistan; not a straight line or an right angle on her, even the hideous hydraulic cargo-handling gear stuck on top can't disguise her looks.  My father was a relieving first officer for Strick in the 50s until starting as a Cardiff Pilot in 1958, and I visited a good number of the company's Stans as an anklebiter, and sailed on one or two (including one from the Pool of London; Tower Bridge has opened for ME, and I clearly remeber it.  I was 4 years old).  Kohistan had a sister, Seistan, and both visited Cardiff in the 60s, Seistan only a few weeks in service, all bright and shiny new; of course Father went to see old shipmates to catch up on the gossip and I was tagged along, terrible job but someone had to do it...

 

Note the extensive crew accommodation over two decks aft.  Strick's traded to the Gulf, East Africa, and India mostly, and recruited their crews from the brothels, opium dens, and bars of the Indian Ocean ports; a rough lot, but experienced with dhows under sail, and brilliant natural sailors.  Dad said they were instinctive, by the time you ordered them to do something they'd half-done it already, just as well because they wouldn't have obeyed a white officer anyway!  The first time I encountered marijuana in my teens, I recognised the smell instantly!

[The Johnster]

22 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

She is one BEAUTIFUL ship!

 

Agreed.  The 50s and 60s seem to have been a golden age for British merchant shipping in terms of looks.

 

 

 

This one's a favourite, Stricks' Kohistan; not a straight line or an right angle on her, even the hideous hydraulic cargo-handling gear stuck on top can't disguise her looks.  My father was a relieving first officer for Strick in the 50s until starting as a Cardiff Pilot in 1958, and I visited a good number of the company's Stans as an anklebiter, and sailed on one or two (including one from the Pool of London; Tower Bridge has opened for ME, and I clearly remeber it.  I was 4 years old).  Kohistan had a sister, Seistan, and both visited Cardiff in the 60s, Seistan only a few weeks in service, all bright and shiny new; of course Father went to see old shipmates to catch up on the gossip and I was tagged along, terrible job but someone had to do it...

 

Note the extensive crew accommodation over two decks aft.  Strick's traded to the Gulf, East Africa, and India mostly, and recruited their crews from the brothels, opium dens, and bars of the Indian Ocean ports; a rough lot, but experienced with dhows under sail, and brilliant natural sailors.  Dad said they were instinctive, by the time you ordered them to do something they'd half-done it already, just as well because they wouldn't have obeyed a white officer anyway!  The first time I encountered marijuana in my teens, I recognised the smell instantly!

[The Johnster]

22 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

She is one BEAUTIFUL ship!

 

Agreed.  The 50s and 60s seem to have been a golden age for British merchant shipping in terms of looks.

 

 

 

This one's a favourite, Stricks' Kohistan; not a straight line or an right angle on her, even the hideous hydraulic cargo-handling gear stuck on top can't disguise her looks.  My father was a relieving first officer for Strick in the 50s until starting as a Cardiff Pilot in 1958, and I visited a good number of the company's Stans as an anklebiter, and sailed on one or two (including one from the Pool of London; Tower Bridge has opened for ME, and I clearly remeber it.  I was 4 years old).  Kohistan had a sister, Seistan, and both visited Cardiff in the 60s, Seistan only a few weeks in service, all bright and shiny new; of course Father went to see old shipmates to catch up on the gossip and I was tagged along, terrible job but someone had to do it...

 

Note the extensive crew accommodation over two decks aft.  Strick's traded to the Gulf, East Africa, and India mostly, and recruited their crews from the brothels, opium dens, and bars of the Indian Ocean ports; a rough lot, but experienced with dhows under sail, and brilliant natural sailors.  Dad said they were instinctive, by the time you ordered them to do something they'd half-done it already, just as well because they wouldn't have obeyed a white officer anyway!  The first time I encountered marijuana in my teens, I recognised the smell instantly!

[NorthBrit]

25 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

Agreed.  The 50s and 60s seem to have been a golden age for British merchant shipping in terms of looks.

 

 

So Beautiful  The Johnster posted the same three times.   Love it.

 

A wonderful era.    Cruising in the 50s and 60s.

 

There was a relaxing, elegance any time of day. No need to hurry to get to wherever. There always was a comfortable sofa or chair, be it for morning coffee, afternoon tea, the Music Room or the Cocktail Bar.    Ladies and gentlemen dressed formally without question.   A late evening stroll along the Promenade Deck, arm around a pretty lady. Even the ship was in no hurry, waves drifting away as we travel a leisurely pace of 11 knots. Bliss!!!

 

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

This one's a favourite, Stricks' Kohistan; not a straight line or an right angle on her, even the hideous hydraulic cargo-handling gear stuck on top can't disguise her looks.  My father was a relieving first officer for Strick in the 50s until starting as a Cardiff Pilot in 1958, and I visited a good number of the company's Stans as an anklebiter, and sailed on one or two (including one from the Pool of London; Tower Bridge has opened for ME, and I clearly remeber it.  I was 4 years old).  Kohistan had a sister, Seistan, and both visited Cardiff in the 60s, Seistan only a few weeks in service, all bright and shiny new; of course Father went to see old shipmates to catch up on the gossip and I was tagged along, terrible job but someone had to do it...

A couple of Stans in Manchester to feed @The Johnster's recollections...

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 17:01 by Mol_PMB
third image added

[J. S. Bach]

On 21/09/2024 at 20:47, Bon Accord said:

 

That picture is now my desktop backround.

Edited Monday at 21:13 by J. S. Bach

[The Johnster]

Sharistan looks well loaded and perfectly trimmed.  I don't remember her, but it's a long time ago now.

[KeithMacdonald]

12 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Sharistan looks well loaded and perfectly trimmed.  I don't remember her, but it's a long time ago now.

 

Sharistan? Well loaded and perfectly trimmed? You sure you're not thinking of that red-headed Scottish lass you mentioned earlier?

[turbos]

Norwind Breeze heading out of the Cromarty Firth after leaving The Port of Nigg and the Renfrew Rose on the Cromarty-Nigg ferry.

 

Brian.