Anyone Interested in Ships

[Ozexpatriate]

20 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Anyone know what engine it is

The big marine thing or the dockyard tank (0-4-0T?) locomotive? 😉

[jwealleans]

I think the OP would be happy with either, he'd had no responses at all when I last looked.

[62613]

With that bedplate, is it a Sulzer?

[jwealleans]

There have now been some comments:

 

"I can't positively identify the marine diesel engine on the flatbed but it may be a Burmeister and Wain engine. This would put this picture at one the UK licensees: either Harland and Wolf, Belfast, or Kincaids in Greenock on the Clyde. A third possibility might be Clarke Kincaids on the Tyne."

 

"The industrial loco is clearly an Andrew Barclay saddle tank. Possibly one of the Clydeside shipyards but perhaps one of the Sunderland shipyards too as Doxford Yard in Sunderland did make large marine engines similar to the one being moved by the locomotive."

 

The clock tower has also been noted and it's suggested this might be John Browns.

[New Haven Neil]

I don't think that's a B&W as in that era it would most likely be opposed piston - which that isn't.  Also if a later engine it would have had exhaust valve rocker arms - which it also does not.

 

Looking at the head studs, I'm going Sulzer or MAN.  

[jjb1970]

Way before my time I'm afraid.

[johnofwessex]

Who had Sulzer or MAN licences in the UK?

[New Haven Neil]

2 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

Who had Sulzer or MAN licences in the UK?

 

Barclay Curle had Sulzer, not sure about MAN as we didn't have any of their engines.  The Barclay Curle 8RND90 Sulzer I sailed on was the worst made Sulzer I came across!

[J. S. Bach]

You sailed on an engine? Wow, that must have been something to see. Not to mention what i presumed would have been a rather wet ride!!!

[New Haven Neil]

4 minutes ago, J. S. Bach said:

You sailed on an engine? Wow, that must have been something to see. Not to mention what i presumed would have been a rather wet ride!!!

 

They float, didn't you know?  😁

[jjb1970]

One of my employers had B&W engines of the exact same model built by Kincaid and Mitsui, unfortunately spare parts supplied by Kincaid wouldn't fit the Mitsui engines and Mitsui spares weren't usable by the Kincaid engines. Splendid production control given all the drawings are supposed to be controlled and approved by class. The Mitsui engines were much better, they did a rolling program over a couple of years to Mitsui-ise the Kincaid engines to address the problem.

[JeremyC]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

One of my employers had B&W engines of the exact same model built by Kincaid and Mitsui, unfortunately spare parts supplied by Kincaid wouldn't fit the Mitsui engines and Mitsui spares weren't usable by the Kincaid engines. Splendid production control given all the drawings are supposed to be controlled and approved by class. The Mitsui engines were much better, they did a rolling program over a couple of years to Mitsui-ise the Kincaid engines to address the problem.

Licencees didn't always just build their engines to the original company's design. For example the B&W single acting opposed piston engine of the 1950s was apparently actually designed by Harland and Wolfe.

One ship I worked on was fitted with Britsh Polar engines which were actually a Nohab design. Nohab became part of Wartslia and almost all the spares we received (via British Polar) were in Wartsila packaging, except for cylinder heads which were unique to the British Polar built engines.

[NorthBrit]

Costa Pacifica  passing    P&O  Arvia  in Barcelona  7th May 24

 

 

 

MSC Grandiosa  leaving Barcelona   7th May 24

 

 

 

 

[SHMD]

Is that Grandiosa thing top heavy or what?

 

 

Kev.

[jjb1970]

The story of different engine designers and builders gets quite messy even without considering licensee production. However, engines of the same design are supposed to be the same. The design and drawings are owned by the designer, not the licensee and it is the design and drawings which are approved. The attending surveyors at the engine works check the various certificates for steel and components, witness NDE tests and various tests but the most important part is that the engine as built is as per the approved design. In my employers case they were B&W 6L80GFCA engines I think, it's a long time ago but certainly B&W L. Despite both being the same on paper and according to B&W they were different. Experience indicated the MSE (Mitsui) engines were closer to the approved drawings. Additionally the MSE engines were better built and supply of spares easier and more reliable so a decision was made to modify the Kincaid built engines to MSE configuration in a long-ish rolling program.

 

Controlling licensee is a nightmare for engine companies and a regular cause of friction with class. They blame class, class points out they approve designs submitted by the engine companies and it's their job to manage their licensees. 

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, SHMD said:

Is that Grandiosa thing top heavy or what?

 

 

Kev.

 

Instead of looking like a block of flats, it looks like a block of flats under construction!  All the design and styling work on these ships goes into the interiors, most of which are hideous, but, like it says in the song, 'my god how the money rolls in, rolls in'...

 

🎵 'My auntie makes cheap contraceptives

And pierces the ends with a pin

While grandma is good at abortions

My god how the money rolls in

 

Rolls in, rolls in

My god how the money rolls in, rolls in

Rolls in, rolls in

My god how the money rolls in".🎶

 

[NorthBrit]

 

On 14/07/2024 at 12:00, SHMD said:

Is that Grandiosa thing top heavy or what?

 

 

Kev.

 

She sails okay;  not like a 'drunken duck'   some of them do.

[peterfgf]

On 14/07/2024 at 12:09, jjb1970 said:

The story of different engine designers and builders gets quite messy even without considering licensee production. However, engines of the same design are supposed to be the same. The design and drawings are owned by the designer, not the licensee and it is the design and drawings which are approved. The attending surveyors at the engine works check the various certificates for steel and components, witness NDE tests and various tests but the most important part is that the engine as built is as per the approved design. In my employers case they were B&W 6L80GFCA engines I think, it's a long time ago but certainly B&W L. Despite both being the same on paper and according to B&W they were different. Experience indicated the MSE (Mitsui) engines were closer to the approved drawings. Additionally the MSE engines were better built and supply of spares easier and more reliable so a decision was made to modify the Kincaid built engines to MSE configuration in a long-ish rolling program.

 

Controlling licensee is a nightmare for engine companies and a regular cause of friction with class. They blame class, class points out they approve designs submitted by the engine companies and it's their job to manage their licensees. 

I remember Cegielski Sulzers from Poznan being a little different, in small but important details, from Sulzers built elsewhere.

Peterfgf

[NorthBrit]

Model of my first ship I sailed in.   British India S.N.Co.   'Uganda'.

 

[New Haven Neil]

The rough Barclay Curle 8RND90 Sulzer, enclosed in a rough Swan Hunters tanker.....leaving the Tyne on it's maiden voyage. 1975 IIRC.  I was on her twice, 1977 and 1980, she was falling to bits in 1977, and by 1980 a real handful needing extra engineers to keep her going.  Awful ship.

 

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, NorthBrit said:

Model of my first ship I sailed in.   British India S.N.Co.   'Uganda'.

 

My brother did one of those school cruises to the Baltic, probably in about 1973/74.

[jjb1970]

7 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

The rough Barclay Curle 8RND90 Sulzer, enclosed in a rough Swan Hunters tanker.....leaving the Tyne on it's maiden voyage. 1975 IIRC.  I was on her twice, 1977 and 1980, she was falling to bits in 1977, and by 1980 a real handful needing extra engineers to keep her going.  Awful ship.

 

 

The best ships I sailed on were built by IHI at their yard in Kure, Japan. I was accustomed to the prevailing attitude that 'you can't build something big and complicated without hitting problems, delays, cost overun etc and having teething problems after delivery', yet IHI delivered what at the time were huge container ships which just worked when floated out. In later years the Korean yards could do the same, they work to a high quality standard and have a razor sharp focus on delivery. The Koreans are unusual in not having the normal variation order culture as their view is that any extra income is outweighed by messing around with their production processes and schedules, particularly building dock occupancy.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

The Koreans are unusual in not having the normal variation order culture as their view is that any extra income is outweighed by messing around with their production processes and schedules, particularly building dock occupancy.

In other words, "you'll get what you asked for".

[Ozexpatriate]

4 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

In other words, "you'll get what you asked for".

More in the line of the quote attributed to Henry Ford:

Quote

Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black

 

[jjb1970]

A couple of PIL both boats, a smaller feeder type ship entering Tanjong Pagar as one of their big ladies departs.