The Bigbee Line Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Not too much modelling today. Had another play with making links. Tried bending instanter centre links, the GW used some made of round bar type of material, not much luck. I have some Peco Instanters somewhere, might try the middle links with my links at either end The other option is plain three link couplings to these general dimensions I have found a suitable former for forming the links, the links can be cut using a razor saw or Stanley knife. These are the first batch from the former... I linked up three and without soldering, tried them on a Lionheart Minfit. Quite impressed, just need to sort out some magnetic wire for the end links.. Here shown on a setrack curve 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 You can have a lot of fun "rebuilding" old wagons, many of which can be bought (relatively) cheaply from second-hand stalls at GOG Events. Indeed, the crappier the wagon the cheaper the price, but there are exceptions. I got a limited edition red Kaye wagon one Telford for £12 and it was quite decent. Just the wheels must be worth £8 these days! I often take plastic open wagons completely apart in order to detail the interiors more easily. Often gentle hand pressure will part the sides and ends from the chassis with reasonable ease. Occasionally, if the builder has done a really good job, you get damage, but it can usually be repaired without too much difficulty. However many builders do little more than "tack" the sides and ends in place! I think this is a good cheap way into 7mm scale modelling, and if only a small number of wagons are needed in total it's always possible to recycle through the second-hand market - quite often a small profit will be made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 Coopercraft 04 - 5 plank open Whilst rummaging for parts etc I came across an unmade Coopercraft 04 5 plank open. I always liked the fit of the kits in OO. Thought I'd give this one a go. First thing was to ensure the body was square, no good moaning about other peoples kits if I couldnot get the basic box right. I had seen some of this wagon type with some quite chunky self contained buffers. In my grand assortment of spares were some sets of nice sprung buffers, just the ticket. Holes in headstock opened up. Trial fit looks nice... Next job was to check out the alignment of the brake blocks. As supplied they steed a little too far forwards. A couple of strips of 15 though seemed just about right for alignment. Back to the body, I had added extra solvent to get good bonding on all joints. When dry it was sanded top and bottom, plus the outside corners were slightly rounded off. The real corner plates are an angle formed of folded metal sheet. The headstock needs slight packing as it sits back from the body. Some odd bits of 15 thou have been added. The solebar / brake sections are joined by a piece of 30 thou to hold the wheelsets Once dry it's capable of running on its own wheels. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Next job was to check out the alignment of the brake blocks. As supplied they steed a little too far forwards. A couple of strips of 15 though seemed just about right for alignment. Should be spot on then when I build mine in S7! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 Being a 'Mr No Patience' I could not resist a dry run of the buffers... I suspected that the threaded tails and the associated nuts would foul the solebars. A check revealed that to be the case. Taking the bull by the horns I decided to trim out the vertical part of the solebar leaving the lower web. The hole would be hidden by a replacement corner angle, large enough to cover the large hole created. This the end of the solebar moulding before my hack.. After being attacked with a circular saw blade in a mini drill. Buffer extended. Next job is to finish the other headstock and fixed to the body. I'm considering attaching the body to underframe with nuts and bolts, just in case I need to do any maintenance.... Then to dig out my pictures of Dean Churchward brakes................. Buffer compressed The body is sitting on the underframe, to me it has the right look 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 Should be spot on then when I build mine in S7! Dave I try to get it to look right rather than to a measurement. What you cannot see in the pictures is that I checked the end float on the axles and had just over 2mm, so one solebar was removed, 2mm removed from the 30mm sheet, and the solebar / underframe re-assembled. Now need to smuggle the kitchen scale into the workshop to weigh all the bits and cut off the required lead sheet; 5 oz then 1 oz per inch.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 The last post for today is the three link coupling. The dimensions in the table are rough equivalents for 7mm / foot. I didn't realise that the middle link was narrower than the end links. Might have a go at an actual coupling tomorrow.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Now need to smuggle the kitchen scale into the workshop to weigh all the bits and cut off the required lead sheet; 5 oz then 1 oz per inch.... I would be sorely tempted to use the G0G recommended weights rather than NMRA. Your glued plastic wagon at 10.5oz will become a kit again the first time it gets a heavy shunt! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I try to get it to look right rather than to a measurement. What you cannot see in the pictures is that I checked the end float on the axles and had just over 2mm, so one solebar was removed, 2mm removed from the 30mm sheet, and the solebar / underframe re-assembled. Now need to smuggle the kitchen scale into the workshop to weigh all the bits and cut off the required lead sheet; 5 oz then 1 oz per inch.... I would stick to a gram per mm or an ounce per inch over buffers and forget the 5 ounces to start with. No need for so much weight. 10 plus ounces you are looking at is getting on for coach weight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Huxley Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) "I had seen some of this wagon type with some quite chunky self contained buffers. In my grand assortment of spares were some sets of nice sprung buffers, just the ticket. Holes in headstock opened up. Trial fit looks nice"... Sorry, but 04's were never fitted with GWR self contained buffers. Also note that the brakes as supplied in the kit are the wrong way round for GWR DC1 brakes. It should be "left over right" and not as given in the kit as "right over left". If you fitted them as supplied, they wouldn't work. Cheers, Mike Edited August 3, 2017 by Mike Huxley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 "I had seen some of this wagon type with some quite chunky self contained buffers. In my grand assortment of spares were some sets of nice sprung buffers, just the ticket. Holes in headstock opened up. Trial fit looks nice"... Sorry, but 04's were never fitted with GWR self contained buffers. Also note that the brakes as supplied in the kit are the wrong way round for GWR DC1 brakes. It should be "left over right" and not as given in the kit as "right over left". If you fitted them as supplied, they wouldn't work. Cheers, Mike Thanks for the advice. By 'some of this wagon type' I mean GW 5 plank with DC brakes. I have worked with wagons in the real world for most of my career and the word 'never' is a challenge to wagon shops. When this type of wagon got into internal users any buffers could get fitted. So the SC buffers will remain. I have already removed one set of push rods for a re-work of the brakes. When I get to that stage I have several documents and a load of pictures to consult. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 I would stick to a gram per mm or an ounce per inch over buffers and forget the 5 ounces to start with. No need for so much weight. 10 plus ounces you are looking at is getting on for coach weight. Daifly and N15 thanks for the sage advice regarding weight. A couple of points: I've weighed a couple of trucks up to the NMRA standard and whilst heavy the axleguards do not seem on the point of collapse. With that weight the trucks track and move just like the real thing. A Lionheart weights in at approx. 5 oz. The 04 open will take a single floor sized piece of lead flashung under the floor and come out at approx. 5 oz. I'm planning to weight some opens to the 1 oz per inch and test the running against when another 5 oz is added as a load to each one. Suggestions for any particular tests would be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Don't forget you will need something to pull them. The heavier they are the more difficult it becomes. The days of making everything so heavy have gone track and wheel profiles are better so you don't need the weight to keep it on the rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 I appreciate all the advice on perceived excess weight. What do I do with my with my white metal kits? I have a white metal 5 plank open that comes out at 8 1/2 oz, that's just sides, ends, brake gear, buffers and wheelsets. That's the oz per inch out of the window..... before the ounces of low melt solder that will be used in the assembly. I did note last night, that even when weighted up to the NMRA standard, the wagons still roll very nicely with little resistance, so don't think haulage will be a problem. Hopefully the weight will prevent wagons from 'see sawing' (oscillating longitudinally) on the coupler springs when being shunted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 Another question. Is there any value using springs on the drawbars of model wagons. I know real wagons have springs on the drawbars. Nowadays either rubber or more modern 'tecspac' units, but the movement is very small. The main purpose is to act as an energy absorber to prevent traction shocks travelling down the train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 White metal wagons do come out over weight, that just has to be accepted. Most of any wagon oscillation stems from the loco. I always add a spring to the coupling but softer than supplied. It helps with the pick up of wagons and tighter than prototype curves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 Busy with real trains today. Just time to take my whitemetal 5 plank from the paint stripper and give it a scrub and rinse off. Next was a Slater's cattle wagon, GW, into the stripper. Paint fell off. Looking to convert into a fruit van. Any suggestions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Here's the cattle wagon. Doesn't look too bad at first glance, then as you get closer you can see all the dust etc in the paint... Close up The main things to sort are the roof (cardboard and floppy), buffers (seized) and the horizontal bars. Has anyone pictures of one in BR paint? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Paint stripping continues on various sows ears... No pictures, saving that excitement until later. One of the reasons I am liking O gauge is the ability to use full size tools, no pussyfooting around with a mini drill. When opening out the buffer holes a full size normal drill was used. Last night I did a little fettling on couplings. I have a couple of 'Three Aitch Mouldings' opens. The coupling hook is thin steel, with a quite deep rounded hook. A bit of shaping and rounding off the tip of the hook gave a better looking hook that allowed links to be dropped over quite easily. The holes for the drawhooks were quite wide and the drawhooks flopped a bit, so some evergreen strip was cut into wedge shapes and inserted on either side off the hook. Nice and snug, a little solvent was added to hold it all in place. I think I'll file the hook to allow the projection to be reduced a little. Some other shots show buffers added and the use of plastic pieces plus solvent to form a solid packing around the stem of the buffer. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 3 Plank Drop Side. Last night I gave the wagon a coat of light grey as a base coat. The finish will be early BR, light grey with black patches for the numbering etc. I had noted that the original coupling hooks even when filed at the front to ease hooking up, still had a projection almost out to the buffer faces. I thought I would try and adjust to get the hook back towards the headstock... This is the result The How to Guide... Remove hook and put in vice File top and bottom The result is a better projection. The close up pictures are most cruel... If you think my paint finish on the drawhook is rubbish, how about this as a prototype finish... This is the UIC drawhook from a Traffic Services Polybulk wagon. The failure was caused by a severe snatch, that pulled the front of the hook from the rest of the drawhook. Note weathered appearance.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 Did a bit of winding down today with a very small screwdriver and a couple of £10 bargain Slaters 4 wheelers. A full Brake and a 5 compartment third. In my world the full brake is a loaner from the Southern. Thinking of black ends, with one side in Southern Olive and the other side BR Crimson. Is that a little far fetched, maybe one side in an early BR departmental paint scheme. I'll need to look on the internet. The 5 compartment third will be Southern Olive on one side and a very tired and faded KESR paint scheme, I'll take suggestions on the one. As mentioned before they seem to have been painted with a bass broom. The paint stripper got most off and the screwdriver is getting the residue out of all the nooks and crannies The inside of the full brake looks like it was painted with vinyl matt white, not jesting... .. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Not much modelling today. Has a fiddle around with a Three Aitch 5 plank. It had quite overscale buffers, 2 intact on one end and 2 with missing heads at the other end. I could have fitted replacements but the body is quite crude and I decided to bodge up the 2 headless wonders. I removed the top half of the bases fitted to the wagon and the bottom half of a couple of spares that came off the 3 plank dropside. One shank was on the p!ss so it was necessary to compensate the joint so it ended up horizontal. Once fettled, they were cemented on. They look fine to me.... When pictures are taken you can see all the things that are wrong. I've just noticed that one corner has the side overlapping the end at the top... Some trimming will sort that. To hide the imperfections I could resort to making it convey a sheeted load with the sheets covering the tops of the sides. The other option is to have a sheeted load that has the sheet tucked into the wagon. A practice frowned upon by loading inspectors as the rainwater would end up on the wagon floor instead of running outside the wagon. When I dealt with wagon sheets they had eyelets around the edge to allow roping down. These were known as 'sheet ties' and seem to remember that they were a stock item. Ropes could then go over the top (That was also frowned upon as it fretted through the sheet). Sheets were very heavy and seemed unwilling to be folded. Anyway I digress, here are a couple of pictures of my butchery. Nicely blurred picture of buffers as is: Again blurred pictures of the other end with spliced buffers: You can make out the join (coupling needs a fettle) Once painted with some black / dark grey should look OK. I'm sure the serious modellers are cringing at this point... Decals are on order so might get this one finished by Friday.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Tonight I thought I should do something on the actual layout itself. I'd purchased a couple of sets of the Peco rail built stops. To save space I thought I'd cut the rear legs off. There is a prototype for this, well sort of... If you look at the Ian D Nolan picture of Falmer https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/11207526956/sizes/k/ you can see the buffer stops at the end of the siding. It must have been used for end loading. If you look carefully you can see the 'front legs' of a set of rail built buffers sticking out of the wall. Which came first? I suspect it was stops first, then the wall was built round it. Maybe for unloading tanks. I know that in the nearby Stanmer park there were concrete pads (parking places for tanks) on each side of the road up to the village. According to family stories the soldiers were Canadian and that the were all gone after the ill fated Dieppe Raid.. Must stop rambling. So here's a couple of pictures of my short stops... For me they save vital space. It's a tight squeeze, so every little counts. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 Most buffer stops have elegantly bent legs, with a multitude of variations. Some modern sets have plates joining straight sections of rail and some have the legs going straight into the ballast. I have a picture of some (but can't find them at the moment). I have been thinking about having a go, also wanting to try soldering with bakers fluid. Soldering experts are reaching for their crucifix now.... If washed thoroughly afterwards it should be ok... Here's my first efforts... An additional angled rail will be added outboard of the angled rails fitted. Plus some squares of brass where the buffers make contact. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Level Crossing Gates Todays diversion from real life is the shortening of Level Crossing Gates. I have a picture of some gates on a crossing near Framlingham. Just like the Peco gates but only 3 bays long. They also have intermediate horizontal bars not the mesh. First stage is to shorten the gates... Taped to the end of a square for alignment whilst the cement dries. I know they are a little OTT for the KESR, but I like crossings... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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