When TT3 was the next Big Thing

[Golden Fleece 30]

A short video.  The Britannia is not as noisy as it appears.

 

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Received a nice first generation goods set in nearly new condition. Looking at the motor the felt pads were still bright white and the armature, insulation etc all very clean. The centre wheels are the plastic version and one has split. The wagons look to have had very little use with no tell tale gunge on the treads. The controller wires are still tapped up and the box in not to bad a condition. The only issue is that 4 curves are missing but may pick some up somewhere.

 

Garry

[DavidB]

Hi Garry

 

Just want to thank you for all your posts on this thread - TT is one of the few scales I've never modelled in, but your posts really bring alive the charm and nostalgia of these old models. I used to love reading the old RM articles about Lydney, Bere Alston and other layouts, and it's great to see TT models still loved and cared for in 2018. Please keep the updates coming.

 

David

[APOLLO]

That set is a good find Garry, also it still has the TT lapel badge too. My first set was similar, a Jinty and two suburban coaches, I still have these (no box though) and the badge !.

 

Brit15

[Robert Shrives]

Garry,

 

Well that is pretty near mint I am sure you will have a suitable spare ..

 

Robert

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Garry

 

Just want to thank you for all your posts on this thread - TT is one of the few scales I've never modelled in, but your posts really bring alive the charm and nostalgia of these old models. I used to love reading the old RM articles about Lydney, Bere Alston and other layouts, and it's great to see TT models still loved and cared for in 2018. Please keep the updates coming.

 

David

Hi David,

 

Don't worry I will be doing what I can to keep it going. I am slowly sorting out a few things like track across baseboard joins where they have moved, point motors which need contacts cleaning (or replacing as in one place so far) and a couple of points where the rail has come away from its pins. That was one issue with the plastic sleepered points the rail was only soldered to about 4 pins. Our little one discoverd electric points tonight and loved it, problem is she cannot yet relate to the diagram to layout positioning yet.

 

I too used to love the articles like Lydney and see it in the flesh at shows.

 

Garry

Edited November 6, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

That set is a good find Garry, also it still has the TT lapel badge too. My first set was similar, a Jinty and two suburban coaches, I still have these (no box though) and the badge !.

 

Brit15

Nice to know you still have them, I may be getting an unopened bottle of oil to put in it as its own is missing. The thing is this set cost less than some Jintys on their own on Ebay but what I liked is the Type A track and its controller with wires.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Garry,

 

Well that is pretty near mint I am sure you will have a suitable spare ..

 

Robert

I am not too worried about the wheel Robert, just hoping I can get 4 decent matching curves. As mentioned earlier someone may have an oil bottle for it.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Bought a few coaches from the 3mm society non Tri-ang department and these two will not be getting repainted, I could certainly never do the Teak effect like this. The Teak one is a Bec kit, the NE fish van might be scratchbuilt. The photos actually show up things the naked eye does not, really pleased at something different.

 

I did paint a Bec 4 wheeler in maroon last year but with a few more now I may do these in Blood and Custard livery.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

A little video of a couple of freight trains in opposite directions. We only have 4 boards wired up plus a 3 foot drop just past the girder bridge so I do have my heart in my mouth at times.

 

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

A little experimentation, I had thought of ballasting the track but having tried a little on the head shunt end using "Ballast Bond" which is a ready made type of PVA mix it did not work with most of the stones not gluing.  I did not want to wet the fibre sleepers too much obviously so thought about just painting the sleepers and base.  This is a short section which was quickly done last night with a brush.  It looks reasonable so I may do it this way but with a can to get everywhere or stick to the brush.  The fencing is Hornby cut down which looks fine so with a little painting will be okay for the boundary fence.  Also a view looking down after testing a few locos.

 

Garry

Edited November 8, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[MikeCW]

A little experimentation, I had thought of ballasting the track but having tried a little on the head shunt end using "Ballast Bond" which is a ready made type of PVA mix it did not work with most of the stones not gluing.  I did not want to wet the fibre sleepers too much obviously so thought about just painting the sleepers and base.  This is a short section which was quickly done last night with a brush.  It looks reasonable so I may do it this way but with a can to get everywhere or stick to the brush.  The fencing is Hornby cut down which looks fine so with a little painting will be okay for the boundary fence.  Also a view looking down after testing a few locos.

 

Garry

Garry

An apology for inserting myself into the TT3 topic, but I assume that ballast matters cross all scales. I recall two layouts (both 00 Edit -should be 4mm/ft:at least one of the two was EM ) of the 1960s which had a significant impact on me in my teens.  The first was the late Gavin Wilson's Highland Railway: stud contact, largely scratchbuilt, with the single track main line travelling through the pine-clad hills of Highland scenery.  The other was the late David Jenkinson's first Settle and Carlisle layout, "Marthwaite". As I recall, neither were ballasted, though David J. may have ballasted Marthwaite at a later date.  I don't have the relevant magazines on hand so can't confirm.  But both looked superb, especially compared to most of the other layouts which featured in the contemporary model press.  David J. commented in one of his articles that the absence of ballast was more apparent in photographs than on the model itself.

 

It seems to me that a decision on ballasting depends on what one is trying to achieve: a "scale" model railway that might grace the pages of the Model Railway Journal, or a well engineered, nostalgic tribute to the inspirational work of 50 years ago.  The trick is often to find the middle ground that works for oneself, and where one lands will influence the ballast/no ballast decision.

 

I can't remember whether "Lydney" trackwork was ballasted.  There was one "Railway of the Month" at around that time which was ballasted retrospectively with, as I recall, the contents of the filter from a WWII gas mask!

 

Keep up the good work

 

Mike 

Edited November 9, 2018 by MikeCW

[Golden Fleece 30]

Garry

An apology for inserting myself into the TT3 topic, but I assume that ballast matters cross all scales. I recall two layouts (both 00) of the 1960s which had a significant impact on me in my teens.  The first was the late Gavin Wilson's Highland Railway: stud contact, largely scratchbuilt, with the single track main line travelling through the pine-clad hills of Highland scenery.  The other was the late David Jenkinson's first Settle and Carlisle layout, "Marthwaite". As I recall, neither were ballasted, though David J. may have ballasted Marthwaite at a later date.  I don't have the relevant magazines on hand so can't confirm.  But both looked superb, especially compared to most of the other layouts which featured in the contemporary model press.  David J. commented in one of his articles that the absence of ballast was more apparent in photographs than on the model itself.

 

It seems to me that a decision on ballasting depends on what one is trying to achieve: a "scale" model railway that might grace the pages of the Model Railway Journal, or a well engineered, nostalgic tribute to the inspirational work of 50 years ago.  The trick is often to find the middle ground that works for oneself, and where one lands will influence the ballast/no ballast decision.

 

I can't remember whether "Lydney" trackwork was ballasted.  There was one "Railway of the Month" at around that time which was ballasted retrospectively with, as I recall, the contents of the filter from a WWII gas mask!

 

Keep up the good work

 

Mike 

Don't worry about getting onto the TT pages Mike, its model railways and that's it.

 

I don't remember the Highland railway one but certainly do with Marthwaite, I saw it in the flesh unballasted  but cannot recall seeing it with ballast at a later stage.  I saw Lydney many times and here it is with some ballast but I think mine will be without, certainly a lot easier to do leaving it off.  I had a photo somwhere of a Black 5 in Birmingham New street with all the pointwork without ballast so I have an excuse.

 

In those days Kings X model shop used to sell bags of ballast that when opened dried rock hard (no pun intended) in the air but if I remember correctly it was not cheap and nce opened you had to use fairly quickly.

 

I think mine without ballast will not be too bad as it will have static grass and modern buildings on it plus fencing as seen in the photo.

 

Garry

[MikeCW]

Don't worry about getting onto the TT pages Mike, its model railways and that's it.

 

I don't remember the Highland railway one but certainly do with Marthwaite, I saw it in the flesh unballasted  but cannot recall seeing it with ballast at a later stage.  I saw Lydney many times and here it is with some ballast but I think mine will be without, certainly a lot easier to do leaving it off.  I had a photo somwhere of a Black 5 in Birmingham New street with all the pointwork without ballast so I have an excuse.

 

In those days Kings X model shop used to sell bags of ballast that when opened dried rock hard (no pun intended) in the air but if I remember correctly it was not cheap and nce opened you had to use fairly quickly.

 

I think mine without ballast will not be too bad as it will have static grass and modern buildings on it plus fencing as seen in the photo.

 

Garry

That photo brings back memories.  Wasn't Lydney the layout with the disused branch line, with lifted track, disappearing off into a tunnel?  That was cutting edge modelling for the time.  And getting back to a point I made elsewhere, Lydney was a layout, like Peter Denny's Buckingham and others, which had character, or personality, or that extra bit of something which made it that much more interesting.  And being TT3 made it even more "different".

 

Below is a photo of Gavin Wilson's Highland Railway. It will be the only 4mm photo I post on this thread but I think it's relevant to Garry's ballast question. The trackwork, while very well made, is firmly 1950s technology. According to Gavin Wilson in the 1964 Railway Modeller, the track was made up of "Evans" fibre sleeper bases, drilled for Peco chairs crimped around bullhead rail, the whole then pinned to "sponge" rubber underlay. He went on to say that he had visited a layout where, due to "heat, cold and dampness, the fibre base showed signs of warping". Because he cut the webs of the fibre base at alternate sleepers each side, he said he had experienced no warping on his layout.  It seems that, with the warping risk on his mind, he wouldn't have used any form of "wet" ballast.

 

I wish I had been around to see Marthwaite.  I don't believe that there is a video of it either, or at least not one that I have heard of.

 

Mike

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by MikeCW

[Golden Fleece 30]

That photo brings back memories.  Wasn't Lydney the layout with the disused branch line, with lifted track, disappearing off into a tunnel?  That was cutting edge modelling for the time.  And getting back to a point I made elsewhere, Lydney was a layout, like Peter Denny's Buckingham and others, which had character, or personality, or that extra bit of something which made it that much more interesting.  And being TT3 made it even more "different".

 

Below is a photo of Gavin Wilson's Highland Railway. It will be the only 4mm photo I post on this thread but I think it's relevant to Garry's ballast question. The trackwork, while very well made, is firmly 1950s technology. According to Gavin Wilson in the 1964 Railway Modeller, the track was made up of "Evans" fibre sleeper bases, drilled for Peco chairs crimped around bullhead rail, the whole then pinned to "sponge" rubber underlay. He went on to say that he had visited a layout where, due to "heat, cold and dampness, the fibre base showed signs of warping". Because he cut the webs of the fibre base at alternate sleepers each side, he said he had experienced no warping on his layout.  It seems that, with the warping risk on his mind, he wouldn't have used any form of "wet" ballast.

 

I wish I had been around to see Marthwaite.  I don't believe that there is a video of it either, or at least not one that I have heard of.

 

Mike

 

P1020107 Gavin Wilson.jpg

Don't worry about 4mm photos if they are relevant Mike.  I certainly don't remember this layout but looks good.  It is an interesting comment about cutting the webs to help prevent warping but with the track all down I dont think I can do that.  Thankfully, if it does warp bad enough to stop trains running I have a lot of Gem plastic sleepered track abbout 50 or 60 yards, I can replace it with.  Some of this, about 30 yards, is still new wrapped in its delivery wrapping to the shops.

 

You are correct with Lydney having its original line turned into a disused one when an extension was built and here is the photo. Also a drawing showing Lydney with its first extension and final incarnation.

 

Garry

[St Enodoc]

Don't worry about 4mm photos if they are relevant Mike.  I certainly don't remember this layout but looks good.  It is an interesting comment about cutting the webs to help prevent warping but with the track all down I dont think I can do that.  Thankfully, if it does warp bad enough to stop trains running I have a lot of Gem plastic sleepered track abbout 50 or 60 yards, I can replace it with.  Some of this, about 30 yards, is still new wrapped in its delivery wrapping to the shops.

 

You are correct with Lydney having its original line turned into a disused one when an extension was built and here is the photo. Also a drawing showing Lydney with its first extension and final incarnation.

 

Garry

Not quite its final incarnation - the main line was doubled before the line was dismantled, after which it became New Lydney, a much simplified version under the custodianship of Leeds MRS and in which form it was exhibited at least once at the Corn Exchange in the early to mid 1970s. It was, of course, replaced by Hatfield Moor and, later, Everigham.

 

Edit - Everingham not Winteringham - stupid boy.

Edited November 9, 2018 by St Enodoc

[Golden Fleece 30]

Not quite its final incarnation - the main line was doubled before the line was dismantled, after which it became New Lydney, a much simplified version under the custodianship of Leeds MRS and in which form it was exhibited at least once at the Corn Exchange in the early to mid 1970s. It was, of course, replaced by Hatfield Moor and, later, Winteringham.

Thanks for this, I admit I do not remember seeing it doubled although I probably will have as I went to most of the ones at the Corn Exchange.  As shown in the above scans from RM is what really impressed me though.

 

Garry

[detheridge]

IIRC, there was an update on Lydney showing the doubled trackplan (but no pics unfortunately) in RM c.1971. Did anyone take pics of it in its final form at an exhibition?

 

David.

Edited November 9, 2018 by detheridge

[Golden Fleece 30]

I have the RM November 1971 copy which shows only a single track track layout still, but, I do have a scan of it doubled.  I still don't remember seeing it in this form but could easily have done so and just forgotten it.

 

Garry

[NCB]

Bob Essery recounted that when the LMS Society was formed they decided they needed a layout to publicise things, and that the only suitable one around was Marthwaite. So some members travelled north to take a look and were shocked to find it wasn't ballasted and the signals didn't work. David Jenkinson was not amused by the comments!

 

I'd have liked to have seen Lydney; it had the atmosphere of a proper railway. Alan Smith currently has a very nice 3mm/ft LNER layout called Everingham:

https://sites.google.com/site/3mmpublic/members-layouts/everingham

 

Nigel

[Golden Fleece 30]

 

I'd have liked to have seen Lydney; it had the atmosphere of a proper railway. Alan Smith currently has a very nice 3mm/ft LNER layout called Everingham:

https://sites.google.com/site/3mmpublic/members-layouts/everingham

 

Nigel

I saw Everingham and spoke to Alan Smith about Lydney last year at the Leeds show.  He is a nice chap and showed me the difference between a scale Jinty and a Tri-ang one but it did not persuade me to change, I will stick with the Tri-ang style/size  :-)

 

Garry

[Barry O]

New Lydney appeared at Wakefield Show one year (1977?). As the Friday night was a 3mm meeting some other club members were brought in to operate. It was interesting to say the least!

 

Since Lydney Alan has built a number of layouts for himself and also for Leeds MRS.  There are some baseboards with track on in the clubrooms now ..progress has been slow due to a variety of things but hopefully it may just appear next year at teh Leeds Show

 

Baz

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is a clip of The Bournemouth Belle pulled by a rebuilt W/C on my layout along with a twin motored Bec Brush type 4 on freight.  I have done a couple of bits of work on the layout but mainly checking some stock running.  Hopefully next week I will get the last board in place and connect the fiddle yard up for continuous running.

 

 

Garry

[St Enodoc]

I have the RM November 1971 copy which shows only a single track track layout still, but, I do have a scan of it doubled.  I still don't remember seeing it in this form but could easily have done so and just forgotten it.

 

Garry

That's from RM January 1972 in case anyone's interested.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Our little one painting the lineside fencing for later. These are Hornby 00 with the bottom rail removed. Most fencing appears to be grey and not brown so she is applying the grey (hopefully a little brown may show through) then later a dry brush over with black to "weather" it and show rotted wood.

 

Garry