Unusual workings of the Midland Blue Pullman sets

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, Mikeastons said:

That's been looked into too but the consensus was a new build is more cost effective ....remember the BP power cars had passenger seating as well.
However I've always said if people think they can do something then they should do it and so far the only  person to do anything suggested is the owner of LSL with the HST.
I have tried to get him to fund just a mock up cab of the BP but he wasn't keen as it didn't have a practical use for him.

Surely the hardest part of recreating a new Midland Pullman would be sourcing an original power plant and interior fittings ?

 

body side skin could be fairly straight forwards in the big scheme of things.

 

Tbh refitting a HST seems as good as it gets…. The next nearest thing to recreating a MP using something that already exists would be maybe using a Voyager ?

 

As for recreating a single power car, maybe start with a mk3/mk4 DVT.. its a cab and an empty van, or a few mk2defs and convert two BSOs into power cars to make a train ?

But £20mn for a new train from Stadler the mind boggles what that would actually get you ? Surely not a one off bespoke MP to original designs but a modern unit in an older paint job ?

 

 

 

Edited July 24 by adb968008

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

In the world generally, not just Blue Pullman Land, it's usually the "failures" that you learn things from!

 

Mike.

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, Mikeastons said:

That's been looked into too but the consensus was a new build is more cost effective ....remember the BP power cars had passenger seating as well.
However I've always said if people think they can do something then they should do it and so far the only  person to do anything suggested is the owner of LSL with the HST.
I have tried to get him to fund just a mock up cab of the BP but he wasn't keen as it didn't have a practical use for him.

 

Maybe a Thomas the Tank style mask is required?!!!!

 

Mike.

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Mikeastons said:

That's been looked into too but the consensus was a new build is more cost effective ....remember the BP power cars had passenger seating as well.
 

Which, seemingly by common consensus, provided the best ride for passengers on the entire trains.  I certainly never found the riding bad in the power cars although I never travelled in one of the trailers. 

 

Amusing remark from an Old Oak Driver talking of theHST. 'I wonder why they decided to withdraw our Pullmans to replace them with these?

[Rugd1022]

Not an unusual location of course but I thought it worth posting this Adrian Vaughan shot to reiterate how fresh and modern they looked back in their day...

 

 

The date is probably late '64 / early '65 as the new signal gantry for the forthcoming MAS scheme at the west end of platforms 4 and 5 can be seen behind the BP.

Edited July 25 by Rugd1022

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Not an unusual location of course but I thought it worth posting this Adrian Vaughan shot to reiterate how fresh and modern they looked back in their day...

 

 

The date is probably late '64 / early '65 as the new signal gantry for the forthcoming MAS scheme at the west end of platforms 4 and 5 can be seen behind the BP.

Lovely stuff Nidge - the new bracket structure for a colour light signal is also in position at the west end of Platform 9 and there w are what look like a couple of point machines roughly where they will finally be fitted but not much evidence of anything else except the panel 'box structure itself.  The Reading scheme was installed by direct labour for all the outside work so took a comparatively long time to produce much in the way of visible results on the ground so I suspect it it may well be mid- late Summer of 1964 when the photo was taken.

 

Good to see also that visible alongside, but at street level below, the bracket signal on the right is the long since demolished venue for my lunch time game of bar billiards.

 

It is rather salutary to look at that picture and think just how little what is visible in it is still there today.  From a fairly quick assessment all that remains is Reading Bridge House - the large tower block towards left background and the original station building with its clock tower.  Everything visible in this photo to the left of the railway boundary has gone and apart from Reading Bridge House.  Everything outside the railway boundary on the south, right hand side, has gone - the main road under the bridge now has four lanes and the lane, Abattoirs Road,  alongside the railway is still there.    On the other side all that remains are possibly some of the trees visible at extreme left above the signal works.  However the higher ground in distant left hand background is largely unchanged.  

 

The railway, including the underbridge, is unrecognisable although the Down Main (as it was then) is still in the same place as are some parts of the layout leading to the bays against the right hand boundary.  And of course the viewpoint - Reading Main Line West, the largest signal box on the GWR is also long gone.

[Mike_Walker]

In pedant mode, what used to be the Down Main/Platform 5 is now the Down Westbury/Platform 7 whilst today's Down Main passes platform 9.  But it's a great shot!

[Rugd1022]

16 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Lovely stuff Nidge - the new bracket structure for a colour light signal is also in position at the west end of Platform 9 and there w are what look like a couple of point machines roughly where they will finally be fitted but not much evidence of anything else except the panel 'box structure itself.  The Reading scheme was installed by direct labour for all the outside work so took a comparatively long time to produce much in the way of visible results on the ground so I suspect it it may well be mid- late Summer of 1964 when the photo was taken.

 

Good to see also that visible alongside, but at street level below, the bracket signal on the right is the long since demolished venue for my lunch time game of bar billiards.

 

It is rather salutary to look at that picture and think just how little what is visible in it is still there today.  From a fairly quick assessment all that remains is Reading Bridge House - the large tower block towards left background and the original station building with its clock tower.  Everything visible in this photo to the left of the railway boundary has gone and apart from Reading Bridge House.  Everything outside the railway boundary on the south, right hand side, has gone - the main road under the bridge now has four lanes and the lane, Abattoirs Road,  alongside the railway is still there.    On the other side all that remains are possibly some of the trees visible at extreme left above the signal works.  However the higher ground in distant left hand background is largely unchanged.  

 

The railway, including the underbridge, is unrecognisable although the Down Main (as it was then) is still in the same place as are some parts of the layout leading to the bays against the right hand boundary.  And of course the viewpoint - Reading Main Line West, the largest signal box on the GWR is also long gone.

 

All of which makes me mighty glad I took lots of photos of the station when I was road learning Brum to Didcot back in 2007, managing to get photos of the canopies and other infrastructure with very few trains in the way. It's more like an airport now, never mind a railway station! The icing on the cake that day was the sudden appearance of 47 840 (nay D1661 / 47 077) 'North Star' moving light engine through platform 9 just seconds after I'd stepped off the Voyager from Brum, a nice little echo of the past before it was all swept away. I had planned to only go as far as Didcot but carried on to Reading for a shuftie and a pasty.

[Mikeastons]

On 24/07/2024 at 10:49, adb968008 said:

Surely the hardest part of recreating a new Midland Pullman would be sourcing an original power plant and interior fittings ?

 

body side skin could be fairly straight forwards in the big scheme of things.

 

Tbh refitting a HST seems as good as it gets…. The next nearest thing to recreating a MP using something that already exists would be maybe using a Voyager ?

 

As for recreating a single power car, maybe start with a mk3/mk4 DVT.. its a cab and an empty van, or a few mk2defs and convert two BSOs into power cars to make a train ?

But £20mn for a new train from Stadler the mind boggles what that would actually get you ? Surely not a one off bespoke MP to original designs but a modern unit in an older paint job ?

 

 

 

There are two original power plants left but yeah the reality of what the Stadler new build would be something that looked like an original Blue Pullman but with modern engines etc 
Funnily enough one aspect would be the ride....does one create a train with a good ride...or it is not a proper recreation unless the ride is bad?
It's at that point when for it to make any commercial sense it can only be a cosmetic copy with all new mechanicals.
As far as the interiors go I have the only known surviving 2nd class seat and one of the few surviving 1st class seats ....so these were re-trimmed between 1967 and 1970 and the material isn't that beautiful. 
Given it's at least £20 million to buy it, then a compromise of what is exactly the same and what isn't it's a tall order to make it profitable and even then people will whinge....as the minority whinge now about the HST not being a 'real one' when all 5 original sets are dead!  

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Given that, presumably, a new build would incorporate some/many newer components, some even sourced from HST's maybe, I think the current BP is a pragmatic answer to the question, the rebuild might not finish up looking a million miles away anyway?

 

Mike.

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

All of which makes me mighty glad I took lots of photos of the station when I was road learning Brum to Didcot back in 2007, managing to get photos of the canopies and other infrastructure with very few trains in the way. It's more like an airport now, never mind a railway station! The icing on the cake that day was the sudden appearance of 47 840 (nay D1661 / 47 077) 'North Star' moving light engine through platform 9 just seconds after I'd stepped off the Voyager from Brum, a nice little echo of the past before it was all swept away. I had planned to only go as far as Didcot but carried on to Reading for a shuftie and a pasty.

Nidge I started taking photos of signals at Reading prior to the MAS commissioning and visited various of the 'boxes.   In the early 1990s I was a member of the Reading Layout Modernisation Working Group although because money was short only a couple of our proposals were ever actually provided.

 

Come the next resignalling along with the 'redevelopment'  the availability of a digital camera meant the opportunity to take numerous images over a period of several years.  And droplights on HSTs also allowed photos to be taken from the train of various works, especially the early stages of the flyovers as work progressed.  In addition I had taken photos of several of the colour lights associated with the 1965 scheme as they were altered over the years.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 25/07/2024 at 22:28, The Stationmaster said:

It is rather salutary to look at that picture and think just how little what is visible in it is still there today. 

 

 

Not least the Blue Pullman, which had disappeared only seconds after that photo was taken!

[Vistisen]

On 16/09/2023 at 14:06, rodent279 said:

To be fair, compared to a mk3, or a MK2 on well maintained B4's, most things compare unfavourably. But I'd agree 800's do seem rough .

Why should we be 'fair' and accept that modern trains are less comfortable than a coach that was designed 50 years ago. Last time I was in the uk, I travelled from St Austell to Plymouth just for fun. One way was on a 'Castle' 125 and the other was an Hitachi. The castle was superior in every way.

Edited July 27 by Vistisen

[rodent279]

I'm not suggesting we should not expect better, merely making the point that the Mk2/B4 & Mk3/BT10 combos set a high bar.

 

On the subject of Blue Pullman recreations, I thought the HST nose and cab were GRP modular units that bolt on? If so, I would think it not impossible to recreate something similar to a Blue Pullman cab in GRP-though whether it would get past a modern safety case & type approval or whatever is required, and get union acceptance is another matter.

Edited July 27 by rodent279