Parkside wagons + LMS buffers

[aardvark]

Just a quick note of thanks to all who have assisted by posting to this thread.

 

I went to order the Brassmasters axle jig, found it was out of stock, waited for it to come back into stock, waited for it to be delivered, and in that intervening period, lost interest and moved onto something else.  Now, a couple of years later, I've dusted off the jig (literally), and folded it up, re-read the thread, and am about to tackle putting wheels on the coal wagon.

 

Tally ho!

[cheesysmith]

A useful thread for someone new to wagon building, and I will add a little tip I learnt to hold the wheels tight enough for no slop but free running. I use loom bands. These miniature elastic bands are perfect fit over the axle boxes and around the w irons. And when the glue has set, a touch of plastic weld or such and they fly off without having to disturb bits already done.

[aardvark]

Well, I finally have my wheels on, and the wagon rolls freely enough along a length of test track, with assistance from the Finger of God.

 

Should there be any other beginners reading this, "my" process was:

1. Use the Brassmasters Jig.  I had to file out the slots to accommodate the axles, but I think this is normal/expected.  Better that the jig be under-etched than over-etched (and sloppy).  With the axles a firm fit, you have a single jig+axles to position, rather than two independent axles.
2. Use a rubber band (as per jwealleans workbench blog) on the top (wagon side) of the axleboxes to hold the solebars+w-irons to the jig+axles.  This squeezes the solebars onto the structural detail on the bottom of the wagon floor, a bit like a laundry peg.  This process is a bit fiddly, so a little patience/practice is required.
3. Since I hadn't seated the bearings properly, I had to pack the solebars out using 0.25x2.0mm styrene strip (thanks 57xx). I needed 2 strips on each side.  I added these by gently pulling each solebar out from the wagon in turn, while dropping the packing strip in with tweezers.
4. With everything looking square(ish), a drop of superglue on each end of the packing strips holds everything in place temporarily, then the rubber band and jig can be removed, and the wagon tested.
5. Since all was good, the solebars can then be properly and permanently glued.

I understand that the superglue bond is relatively brittle and can be broken so I could have a second go, should things prove to be out of alignment, but I was lucky and didn't need to.

Edited October 3, 2019 by aardvark

[jwealleans]

Thank you for the credit.

 

If anyone is interested and local, I will be demonstrating wagon building at Hartlepool Model Railway Show on October 19th/20th and then at Warley on November 23rd/24th.

[aardvark]

Anyone got any tips or tricks for attaching door springs to my coal wagon?

 

The springs are quite small, with nothing to position them accurately.  I tried a blob of bluetack to hold one in place while the glue set, but the blob obscured about half of the spring, and on removing it, I find the spring a tad wonky.  Next time I'll try a smaller blob, unless someone can suggest another approach.

 

I don't imagine there's a Brassmaster jig

Edited October 11, 2019 by aardvark

[Poor Old Bruce]

5 hours ago, aardvark said:

Anyone got any tips or tricks for attaching door springs to my coal wagon?

 

The springs are quite small, with nothing to position them accurately.  I tried a blob of bluetack to hold one in place while the glue set, but the blob obscured about half of the spring, and on removing it, I find the spring a tad wonky.  Next time I'll try a smaller blob, unless someone can suggest another approach.

 

I don't imagine there's a Brassmaster jig

 

Assuming you are using plastic kits assembled with solvent, small parts are usually best stuck by holding in place with tweezers or screwdriver with one hand and applying a bit of solvent by brush with the other hand. Give the solvent a few seconds to start melting the interface and you should be able to release the tweezers leaving the component in place. You should still have some wiggle time to adjust the position of the part if necessary, the just leave it to dry/set.

[31A]

6 hours ago, aardvark said:

Anyone got any tips or tricks for attaching door springs to my coal wagon?

 

The springs are quite small, with nothing to position them accurately.  I tried a blob of bluetack to hold one in place while the glue set, but the blob obscured about half of the spring, and on removing it, I find the spring a tad wonky.  Next time I'll try a smaller blob, unless someone can suggest another approach.

 

I don't imagine there's a Brassmaster jig

 

Assuming it's a wagon built from a kit, I usually replace any moulded door springs with ones made from brass strip.  A way to attach them more strongly is to make notches in the top faces of the solebars (before gluing them to the floor) in positions above the door springs.  Then, the door springs can be made over long and bent over 90 degrees at the top and glued into the notch at the top of the solebar, and also if long enough to the underneath of the wagon floor.

[aardvark]

The coal wagon is nearly complete, and I'm pretty happy with it - for a first attempt.  I'll keep it for now, at least to practice painting on, but it will probably be destined for the bin when I can replace it with something better.

 

I've started a PC61 LNER 12 ton goods van, and have fallen on my face. Again.

 

The floor of the van sits on a step in the back of the end, while the sides are flush.  The sides and ends meet with a bevel join, so the sides of the ends protrude past the sides of the floor.

 

I've followed David Neat's lead, and had two steel blocks made up.  These are square on all faces, somewhat like a 3D engineers square. I placed the floor on one face, then positioned one end and one side in place, holding them all in position with bluetack and rubber bands.

 

 

Once everything appeared aligned and being cautious, I applied a small quantity of el-cheapo superglue to the floor/end join, allowing capillary action to draw it into the join, then waited a minute or so for the glue to set.  On removing  the rubber bands and bluetack, I discovered that I now had two bits of plastic stuck to a steel block .

 

I've managed to get them apart again by sliding a scalpel blade between the metal and plastic, but during that process the end detached from the floor and I was back to square one. Then I threw the lot into the corner in disgust.

 

The next attempt might be painting a sparing amount of limonene cement on the end of the floor and hoping that it won't stick to the steel block, but I'm open to suggestions

[John Isherwood]

7 hours ago, aardvark said:

The coal wagon is nearly complete, and I'm pretty happy with it - for a first attempt.  I'll keep it for now, at least to practice painting on, but it will probably be destined for the bin when I can replace it with something better.

 

I've started a PC61 LNER 12 ton goods van, and have fallen on my face. Again.

 

The floor of the van sits on a step in the back of the end, while the sides are flush.  The sides and ends meet with a bevel join, so the sides of the ends protrude past the sides of the floor.

 

I've followed David Neat's lead, and had two steel blocks made up.  These are square on all faces, somewhat like a 3D engineers square. I placed the floor on one face, then positioned one end and one side in place, holding them all in position with bluetack and rubber bands.

 

 

Once everything appeared aligned and being cautious, I applied a small quantity of el-cheapo superglue to the floor/end join, allowing capillary action to draw it into the join, then waited a minute or so for the glue to set.  On removing  the rubber bands and bluetack, I discovered that I now had two bits of plastic stuck to a steel block .

 

I've managed to get them apart again by sliding a scalpel blade between the metal and plastic, but during that process the end detached from the floor and I was back to square one. Then I threw the lot into the corner in disgust.

 

The next attempt might be painting a sparing amount of limonene cement on the end of the floor and hoping that it won't stick to the steel block, but I'm open to suggestions

 

You're over-thinking this.

 

First - use only solvent adhesive to assemble plastic kits; superglue is too quick and permanent.

 

Second - stick one side to one end at the bevel joint; use your steel block to get them at right-angles, but the joint will remain flexible and adjustable for some time.

 

Third - repeat the side / end joint with the other side / end.

 

Fourth - stick the floor into the right-angle between the first pair of side / end; this will set the right-angle and make the assembly much less flexible.

 

Fifth - stick the second side / end pair to the floor / side / end assembly.

 

Sixth - place the assembled body onto a flat surface and ensure that both bufferbeams are touching the surface - this will ensure that there is no twist in the assembly.

 

The human eyes are your best tool for this sort of work - they are remarkably accurate in detecting incorrect angles and twist.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[jwealleans]

Also, use MEK or something similar which grabs more quickly.  I took a bottle of Limonene to a show where I was demonstrating wagon building and nothing would hold quickly enough for the demo.  You could spot the more aggressive glue and then use Limonene to permanently cement the parts once you're happy with the fit.

 

I do more or less as John does, except that I put one side/end pair to the floor, then add the other side and end separately.  This allows you to file down the floor if it's too big.  That's not usually the case with Parkside kits but can be with other manufacturers.

[John Isherwood]

56 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Also, use MEK or something similar which grabs more quickly.  I took a bottle of Limonene to a show where I was demonstrating wagon building and nothing would hold quickly enough for the demo.  You could spot the more aggressive glue and then use Limonene to permanently cement the parts once you're happy with the fit.

 

I do more or less as John does, except that I put one side/end pair to the floor, then add the other side and end separately.  This allows you to file down the floor if it's too big.  That's not usually the case with Parkside kits but can be with other manufacturers.

 

I, too, pause between fitting the first side / end pair and fitting the second pair - sorry I didn't make this clear.

 

I always check the floor dimensions before starting assembly - simply comparing the floor with the end and side mouldings should reveal if the floor is too large.

 

When weighting a closed wagon, always fit strips of plastic card around and over the weight - nothing is worse than a loose weight that unbalances the finsihed model !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[57xx]

13 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I do more or less as John does, except that I put one side/end pair to the floor, then add the other side and end separately.  This allows you to file down the floor if it's too big.  That's not usually the case with Parkside kits but can be with other manufacturers.

 

I did exactly that last weekend with a Cambrian van kit. I usually assemble the pair of side/ends as per John but this time could see the van was not going to go together easily. I had to file a fair amount of floor to get the 2nd side and end to fit well.

[aardvark]

16 hours ago, cctransuk said:

You're over-thinking this.

 

Who me?    Yes, I think you're right (sigh).

 

Many thanks to all who have replied - I would be truly lost without your guidance.  The process described is pretty much what I did with the coal wagon.  There, it was easier to see, as the tops of the sides and ends all align, and so could be easily assembled upside down on a flat surface.  However, with this closed wagon, neither the tops nor bottoms of the sides/ends align. 

 

None of this is helped by the instructions, which merely say "assemble side and ends onto floor".  I do admit that these instructions are better than those for the PC61 LNER 12 ton van, which instruct to cement both ends to the floor first, and then to add the sides.

[jwealleans]

Really?  My recollection of the Parkside LNER vans is that the side ot end location is pretty positive.  There are the corner straps to help you line things up, but doesn't the side sit down onto a small ledge on the end of the buffer beam?  I'll see if I have one in the kit box and have a look.

[aardvark]

On 25/10/2019 at 17:02, jwealleans said:

Really?  My recollection of the Parkside LNER vans is that the side ot end location is pretty positive.  There are the corner straps to help you line things up, but doesn't the side sit down onto a small ledge on the end of the buffer beam?  I'll see if I have one in the kit box and have a look.

 

No need to look: you are correct, not that I doubted.  Many thanks for pointing out this detail which I had missed.

 

Previously, I was focused (in an OCD sort of a way) on attaching an end to the floor, not an end to a side, so I missed this detail.  My comment was that an open wagon has the ends and sides at the same height above railhead, and so can be easily constructed upside down on a flat surface, whereas a closed wagon, which has arched ends, cannot.  Moreover, the bottoms of the ends of a closed wagon include the buffer beam, and hence are lower that the bottoms of the sides, and hence you cannot assemble them right-way up on a flat surface either.

 

My wife says I have OCD, but I don't.  I have CDO, which is in alphabetical order the way IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE

 

[aardvark]

Many thanks to all that have patiently responded to my calamities.  Just to prove that it can be done, even by the likes of me, below is the PC69 7 plank 12 ton coal wagon and the PC61 LNER 12 ton goods van.

 

 

Both still require painting, decals, attachment of LMS buffers and coupling hooks, and weighting.  I think I recall a general agreement of 25g/axle.