Bachmann 94xx

[Ian Hargrave]

20 hours ago, Marcus Hugh said:

Bachmann 94xx,   One week old !!  running light engine a little bit of a judder at low speed.?? It was run in correctly, i only have analogue, have any of you an answer??  

Yes.Send it back

[rembrow]

21 hours ago, Marcus Hugh said:

Bachmann 94xx,   One week old !!  running light engine a little bit of a judder at low speed.?? It was run in correctly, i only have analogue, have any of you an answer??  

Also, as the motor used in these is coreless, worth checking that you are not using a controller with feedback facility or an electronic track cleaner, as these affect coreless motor performance.

Edited November 22, 2021 by rembrow
Correction

[John Isherwood]

1 minute ago, rembrow said:

Also, as the motor used in these is cordless, worth checking that you are not using a controller with feedback facility or an electronic track cleaner, as these affect cordless motor performance.

 

None of my model trains has a cord - is this normal, or should I send them back?

 

CJI.

[woodenhead]

21 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

None of my model trains has a cord - is this normal, or should I send them back?

 

CJI.

Corded ones never stall but they play havoc with all the other stock and scenery

[rembrow]

49 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

None of my model trains has a cord - is this normal, or should I send them back?

 

CJI.

Already corrected for spollchecker annoyance. Lucky it didn't change it to careless motor.

Edited November 22, 2021 by rembrow

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

None of my model trains has a cord - is this normal, or should I send them back?

 

CJI.

You must have some ancient hardwire trains.

 

no problem, put your train on the track turn up the dimmer switch and watch them go.

 

[The Johnster]

On 21/11/2021 at 14:45, Marcus Hugh said:

Bachmann 94xx,   One week old !!  running light engine a little bit of a judder at low speed.?? It was run in correctly, i only have analogue, have any of you an answer??  

Have a read of my June 21 post, but I would send the loco back in the first instance, especially if you are not happy to take the top off or to mess about with things in there.

 

Controllers make a difference, as evidenced by my experience with the HM6000 and this loco.  The coreless motor and gears are very good and about twice as sensitive to the knob as my 'normal' locos.  Coreless motors require pure DC current and are very senitive, reacting instantaneously to changes in current, back EMF, or wave form, so any controller that has feedback, speed/load compensation, or wave rectification will not bring out the best in them.  One sees dire warnings about them burning out in nanoseconds if they are overloaded, but this is rooted in the sensitivity of the Portescap coreless motor of the 80s and 90s to this, an expensive mistake to make.  My Gaugemaster works well with it.

Edited November 22, 2021 by The Johnster

[Guest]

On 21/11/2021 at 14:45, Marcus Hugh said:

Bachmann 94xx,   One week old !!  running light engine a little bit of a judder at low speed.?? It was run in correctly, i only have analogue, have any of you an answer??  

Any news yet?

[grriff]

I've just bought the 'Locomotion' version of the 94XX and am very disappointed that it does not have a centre sprung axle. As a result, it stalls on my Setrack points unlike my Bachmann 56xx which has a centre sprung axle. I will have to check any future purchases carefully. 

[MikeParkin65]

25 minutes ago, grriff said:

I've just bought the 'Locomotion' version of the 94XX and am very disappointed that it does not have a centre sprung axle. As a result, it stalls on my Setrack points unlike my Bachmann 56xx which has a centre sprung axle. I will have to check any future purchases carefully. 

Are you sure its the lack of the sprung axle that causes it to stall? Could the pick ups be losing contact with the wheel backs and just need a tweak (bending gently out) ? I'm thinking the pickups on a 94xx shouldnt perform any worse than a 56xx.

[grriff]

Mike

Thanks. When I checked several contacts were not constantly in touch with the wheels. Teach me not to make assumptions about the quality of new locos. 

I still have a problem in that the loco does now not respond to DC or DCC although the firebox Led works. I suspect the next 18 socket may be faulty. 

More tests... 

[grriff]

Aha. I've found that wire to the motor from the board on which decoder or blanking plate sits has come adrift. Since I've not touched it, I'm not impressed with the quality of this loco. 

[The Johnster]

No, I wouldn't be, either; send it back for repair or replacement.

 

Bitter experience over many years has taught me that one cannot reliably make assumptions as to the running quality of any locomotive that comes into one's posession, new or secondhand.  It is best to check them over, which will do no harm even when they are ok, as it familiarises you with how to dismantle and re-assemble them.

 

Following a brief test run to ascertain that there is life in it, I routinely dismantle (to the state of removing the keeper plate and dropping the wheels out) all and any locomotives that come into my posession to remove the grease lubricant, which I don't like because it attracts crud and sometimes goes solid, becoming the opposite of a lubricant, which I suppose is a stifficant.  I blow it away with rattlecan switch cleaner and remove any residue with kitchen towel. I relube at the points mentioned in the service sheed with a non-mineral maching oil, as sparingly as possible, applied with a syringe.  On re-assembly, I examine and adjust the pickups and check that they all bear properly on their wheels on both sides throughout the full amount of the side play in that axle, and this is even more essential if you are using setrack to the minimum radius the loco is specified for.  Fine tuning of the best slow running is sometimes possible with minor adjustment of the keeper plate retaining screws.

 

The next stage is 30 minutes running in at medium speed in each direction, then thorough test running, over all of the layout hauling and propelling stock in both directions.  Some locos, and my 94xx was one, take much longer than this to bed in and give their best slow running and smoothest stopping and starting.

 

At the risk of teaching a female ancester from the generation previous to your parents' about methods of applying negative pressure to embryonic chickens in shells, ensure that your track is laid with smooth joins to the next piece, and as level as possible, especially at turnouts.  I use minimum 'medium' radius Peco Streamline turnouts on Cwmdimbath, 'small' for the loco release shunt at the runaround, and my 94xx runs smoothly and controllably over them, as do all my locos.  Cwmdimbath is DC controlled.  I am delighted and very satisfied with my 94xx, and sorry to hear that yours is a bit of a dog; hopefully it can be repaired or it's relplacment will run better.

[grriff]

Thanks for your advice

David

[grriff]

I've now had time to compare this loco (no centre sprung axle) with similar Bachmann tank  locos on my neighbour's layout (same track as me - Peco Setrack) which have sprung axles. There is no doubt that locos with sprung axles don't stall on points. 

I don't mind paying £39 for a Hornby Thomas, which stalls, I do object to paying nearly  £100 more for a loco which runs as badly. 

Every rivet might be in the right position but I can't see that. I can see a stalled loco! Has the desire for absolute accuracy pushed out the requirement for reliable running? 

I will write to Bachmann. 

[John Isherwood]

4 minutes ago, grriff said:

I will write to Bachmann. 

 

.... if it makes you feel better!

 

They'll probably tell you that you should have sent it back to the retailer.

 

CJI.

[grriff]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

.... if it makes you feel better!

 

They'll probably tell you that you should have sent it back to the retailer.

 

CJI.

I bought from the NRM shop at Shildon. I'm reluctant to waste their time on what is a design failure by Bachmann. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 25/01/2022 at 18:08, grriff said:

When I checked several contacts were not constantly in touch with the wheels. Teach me not to make assumptions about the quality of new locos. 

Having had out-of-the-box running problems with locos from Bachmann, Hornby and Dapol I learned to routinely check pickup setting, check B2B of all wheelsets and clean tyres including flanges and inner faces where the pickups rub. That clears most of the problems. The other main cause of failure has been when white grease has been used on gears. This is not good for lubrication, it's better for sealing things on a mountain bike where you don't want the crud to get in as it dries slightly and doesn't wash off.

[John Isherwood]

36 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

.... if it makes you feel better!

 

They'll probably tell you that you should have sent it back to the retailer.

 

CJI.

 

You seem convinced that the fault is the lack of a sprung centre axle.

 

I have in excess of a hundred locos and I doubt if any of them have sprung centre axles - certainly none of those that I have built have such a facility.

 

For a loco with six working pickups, it is difficult to understand how a dead frog, even on Set-track turnouts, could cause a loco to stall unless the turnout is distorted or improperly wired. Stalled indicates that NONE of the wheels on one side of the loco are on a live rail; this means that the only wheel touching the track on that side is the one on the dead frog - which in turn means that the turnout is distorted vertically.

 

..... of course, stalled can also indicate a short-circuit - which could in turn indicate that the back-to-back wheel settings are incorrect.

 

Sprung centre axles are not the cure-all for bad track or incorrect wheel settings - contrary to popular belief in some circles.

 

CJI.

[grriff]

CJI

I entirely agree - a loco with six working pickups on a point laid on a billiard table flat bed should not stall and I have achieved that with a test track. I will try and achieve that with my running tracks but I don't think it will be that easy. 

[MikeParkin65]

4 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Having had out-of-the-box running problems with locos from Bachmann, Hornby and Dapol I learned to routinely check pickup setting, check B2B of all wheelsets and clean tyres including flanges and inner faces where the pickups rub. That clears most of the problems. The other main cause of failure has been when white grease has been used on gears. This is not good for lubrication, it's better for sealing things on a mountain bike where you don't want the crud to get in as it dries slightly and doesn't wash off.

Agree. With no disrespect to Grriff who clearly has problems with his loco my experience matches yours. Have been buying more locos than I’d admit to my wife over the last 20 years I have rejected a total of 3, a Bachmann dead on arrival, a Hornby with broken valve gear and an Oxford rail with broken body and a locked mechanism. I’ve had some initially poor runners but all of these have been resolved through general servicing and repair. It’s true that some do arrive new with poor electrical contacts and respond to a simple wheel clean. Maybe shouldn’t happen but it does. 

[MikeParkin65]

4 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Having had out-of-the-box running problems with locos from Bachmann, Hornby and Dapol I learned to routinely check pickup setting, check B2B of all wheelsets and clean tyres including flanges and inner faces where the pickups rub. That clears most of the problems. The other main cause of failure has been when white grease has been used on gears. This is not good for lubrication, it's better for sealing things on a mountain bike where you don't want the crud to get in as it dries slightly and doesn't wash off.

Agree. With no disrespect to Grriff who clearly has problems with his loco my experience matches yours. Have been buying more locos than I’d admit to my wife over the last 20 years I have rejected a total of 3, a Bachmann dead on arrival, a Hornby with broken valve gear and an Oxford rail with broken body and a locked mechanism. I’ve had some initially poor runners but all of these have been resolved through general servicing and repair. It’s true that some do arrive new with poor electrical contacts and respond to a simple wheel clean. Maybe shouldn’t happen but it does. 

[PMP]

5 hours ago, grriff said:

I bought from the NRM shop at Shildon. I'm reluctant to waste their time on what is a design failure by Bachmann. 

It’s highly unlikely to be a design failure.

 

When design failures or batches of faulty components occurs, it’s quickly identified on social media platforms. The 94xx hasn’t had any such issues particularly in respect of running. it would be very very unusual not t have found multiple examples of the same problem mentioned here, or across FB/YT/insta. That would indicate it’s fault with your trackwork/electrics, a fault with your individual model, or a combination of the two. If you can try it on someone else’s layout that will eliminate your layout if it works improperly. You mention set track, these models are designed to run on 2nd radius curves as a minimum. If your track is old style set track points they may be tighter than 2nd radius and therefore not suitable for many of today’s contemporary releases.

As a consumer your first port of call is with the vendor. Sending it back to them in as new condition should get you a refund/replacement depending on what you agree with the vendor. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by PMP

[grriff]

I will continue to work on the problem. I am presuming that the above posters have points with insulfrogs? 

[John Isherwood]

24 minutes ago, grriff said:

I will continue to work on the problem. I am presuming that the above posters have points with insulfrogs? 

 

Not in my case nowadays, but insulfrogs are NOT a problem for locos with six working pick-ups when the track is laid to a reasonable standard.

 

CJI.