Which sports/tourer? Japanese/European motorcycles

[rockershovel]

This is lurking at the back of my garage on SORN at the moment, early 90s 883cc XL. It came to me with various "kewl stuff" and I've been putting it back to something like original spec. The later Sportsters are pretty much derived from the XR and handle reasonably well, although that nice Mr Hagon had a hand in that, along with Avon Cobra tyres which seem to suit it.

 

I seemed to have a shed full of them, a while ago.. they looked cheap so I bought several, picked over them and kept a couple which took my fancy.

 

TBH, if it wasn't for the vibration it would be at least as good a bike as my Hinckley Triumph T100. But, the vibration is the issue and I'll probably sell it soon

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

I don't know who the braver man is -

Rockershovel who races a sportster

or PatB for riding that erm - "Contraption"

Well, I once rode a Urinal, and I wouldn't do it again...

[Herringbone]

Hi Pete - You've already got the best bike at No. 1 on your list VFR750. Get the later FP or FR with single strut swinging arm. I had one for seven years, best bike I ever owned!

 

Herringbone

[PatB]

Well, I once rode a Urinal, and I wouldn't do it again...

 

As I think I've mentioned elsewhere, the current generation of Urals are actually quite decent bikes, albeit of seriously archaic design (which is kind of the point really). Ours was generally well screwed together and had a good, solid feel to it an a tractory sort of way. Certainly light years removed from the Urals and Dneprs I had some marginal involvement with 15-20 years earlier, which made my own Jawa and CZ twins look good by comparison.

 

To get back to Japanese sports bikes and sports tourers, a largely forgotten product of the late 80s that might be worth considering, if any are left of course, is the Suzuki GSX1100F. Sort of a competitor to the CBR1000F but more tourey and with the enormous advantage of not being a Honda . Very quick thanks to the detuned GSXR oil cooled engine, comfortable and with possibly the first electrically adjustable screen on a production bike. What's not to like? The one thing I never understood was why they gave it a chain drive rather than the better (for the particular application) shaft. Especially as they ended up developing a shaft drive on basically the same engine for the GSX1100G (which might also be worth a look, again if you can find one and would prefer a naked). At one stage they seemed to be very cheap indeed, which might not help with survival rates.

[rockershovel]

Japanese fours from the late 80s/early 90s period were quite respectable big tourers. A bit porky, but past the (sometimes quite scary) frame, tyre and brake deficiencies of the first generation, and not yet into the lunatic speed fetish that came later, or the sometimes rather weird "cruiser" styling that was afflicting a lot of Twin cylinder bikes by then...

[chriswright03]

Now that I do like. I was looking at one of these a couple of weeks back and now I'm wondering if it was actually yours I was looking at! Were you here for the recent diesel gala and did you park in the big council car park by the station in Sheringham?

Now, I know that Jap sportsbikes are clearly mentioned in the thread title, but I am open to alternatives. The original 94-96 Speed Triple is a fine looking beast (to my eyes) but I quite like the later ones too. The smaller Street Triple would appear to get rave reviews as a bike for all things.

Not mine Pete.  We went a couple of days after the gala and parked at the other end of the line at Holt.

 

If you are keen on the Triumph triples and don't mind doing a bit of work you could buy one cheap (ish) and make it into a cafe racer with one of these kits (not cheap).

 

https://www.caferacerkits.co.uk/news/2016/10/23/crk-triumph-cafe-racer

[Guest]

Not mine Pete.  We went a couple of days after the gala and parked at the other end of the line at Holt.

 

If you are keen on the Triumph triples and don't mind doing a bit of work you could buy one cheap (ish) and make it into a cafe racer with one of these kits (not cheap).

 

https://www.caferacerkits.co.uk/news/2016/10/23/crk-triumph-cafe-racer

 

Fair enough. It was parked up in the company of a big BMW trailie and a moped. I think the moped was probably unrelated...

I can't quite bring myself to fall head over heels with a purpose built tourer. I've no real desire to go down the panniers and top box route. When brothers and I used to go away for the weekend to Donington for the Superbikes, a tank bag and another bag strapped to the pillion seat with a cargo net was always ample. I'm very much a hand luggage/toothbrush kinda guy, even on foreign holidays.

Thanks for the caferacerkits link. Eye candy indeed!

At the moment, I'm very much torn between a VFR and a Triumph triple. I know what I'm like, though. That will all change by next week. Whatever I do buy will need to walk a fine line between a "heart" and a "head" purchase. I need to get it right as it will at some point either go into a container or the back of a van and travel south to Spain.

[New Haven Neil]

As I wrote above in invisible ink, the giant trailies are very rewarding bikes.  You should try one for a test - whatever make - they have performance and comfort nowadays.  A Honda would be best of course, not one of those Soozooky things....  Seriously though, they're all good, the Kawasaki one is a Suzy in disguise, oddly.

 

As for Harleys - I rode a mate's Sprotster 1200 a while ago, it wasn't as bad as I expected at all.  The vibration was more traction engine than bike, but at sub 70 speeds was OK and it handled OK too.  Shock horror.  No brakes though.

[chriswright03]

It wasn't invisible ink Neil as I saw the bit about the new BMW's bearing no resemblance to the old ones.  Well apart from the vibration and torque reaction.

 

When I tried the BMW trailie some years ago I was surprised at just how well a great big lump like that handled.  The engine put me off and I went back to a VFR 800 but the vtec this time. I eventually traded that in for a Triumph Sprint GT but was soon lured into a Explorer having had one while the Sprint was in for a service.  Crafty sods them dealers you know.  I have to say I have never regretted the change as the upright position and ease of steering with the big bars just suits me so much. 

 

As regards the panniers I have had them on the bike twice in over two years.  Once when I collected the bike from Peterborough and the second time when I went to Norfolk the other week and that was so we could dump the jackets and helmets as it was a blistering hot day.  Rest of the time I ride with the top box on it's own.  OK the bike looks ugly with the great big top box but it gives my wife a bit more confidence in be able to lean against it.

[rockershovel]

 

As for Harleys - I rode a mate's Sprotster 1200 a while ago, it wasn't as bad as I expected at all.  The vibration was more traction engine than bike, but at sub 70 speeds was OK and it handled OK too.  Shock horror.  No brakes though.

Modern Sportsters are nudging the 600lb mark, which is just too much, and they seem to think they can succeed where Norton failed, in making a bike in two halves held together with a lump of bungee.

 

That orange bike has various "special", but not all THAT special internals, has clocked 60-plus Bhp on a dyno and weighs around 475lb. If Harley had taken the bull by the horns, and fitted a balance shaft in the space (across the front of the engine) vacated by the dynamo, and a decent oil cooler, it could be quite something. But, it isn't..

[rockershovel]

Re big "adventure bikes", I once had a VERY second-hand Honda Transalp and it was a very good all-rounder. The original Africa Twin was pretty good, too..

[57xx]

Supposedly even more awkward is the Simpson head, but Simpson cater more for car racing than motorbikes, so much of their range isn't actually "legal" for ordinary road use.

 

image.jpeg

 

They do make bike specific helmets, my Super Bandit was a proper bike helmet, not a car one (No D rings/Hans attachments on the side and sculpted at the back for the neck). However even the bike versions are not UK road legal as the Snell rating is not recognised here. For racing, the application of an ACU Gold sticker soon sorts out any problems.

 

I must have an awkward head, as it is one of the most comfortable lids I have had. The only downside was it is also the noisiest but I didn't care about that too much as I only had to worry about it for 9s at a time Ear plugs also helped. My Arai for the road had tight spots until it bedded in, I had a very comfy Shark carbon before that, never tried a Shoei. But there are lots of other makes around now that are decent quality.

[The Blue Streak]

Modern Sportsters are nudging the 600lb mark, which is just too much, and they seem to think they can succeed where Norton failed, in making a bike in two halves held together with a lump of bungee..

 

If you kept the Isolastics on a Commando properly adjusted they were really nice to ride. The issue was, that early on they were all fitted with isloastics that had to be "shimmed to spec" and they were a pain in the A*se to do and so lot's of people either did them badly or didn't bother at all. The effect was worse vibration than an Norton Atlas ever had and they would feel like they were held together using a gate hinge !!!

 

I rode one Commando where the isolastic shims had completely rusted into a solid lump and were at the point of turning to dust, quite frankly it was terrifying.

 

The Invention of Stainless, vernier adjusted Iso's was a godsend and probably just a standard component in a modern restoration.

 

Of course if Dennis Poore who owned Norton had gone with 270 degree parallel twin that Cosworth had designed for him, there would have been no need to dial out the vibration that came with stretching the old dominator motor to 750 and ultimately 828 (?).

Apparently he didn't like the sound of the Cosworth Motor (effectively 2 pots from their 3 litre V8) and thought it would be no good. (Funny how Yamaha more or less used the basis of that design years later for the TDM and TRX  and very effectively).

Edited June 28, 2017 by The Blue Streak

[rockershovel]

I owned an early Commando which had passed through several pairs of hands in rapid succession, it was horrible. As you rightly say, it was an exercise is damage limitation, for a problem they didn't need to have in the first place. I do know someone who has a "modern restoration" Commando, it's much better but why do you need all that?

 

Harley have given themselves an easier time, but there is a definite problem with high speed handling and it adds greatly to the weight - you particularly notice this on the Sportster because the older, mid-80s Evolution engines have a frame which is basically a production-quality copy of the 1970s flat track frame (hence the twitchy handling).

 

The Hinckley Triumphs have also gone from a 360deg crank on the older, aircooled 865cc engines, to a 270deg crank on the latest watercooled version, along with less bhp and more torque. It's a great improvement. Of course, Bert Hopwood understood this in the 1960s but was over-looked in favour of Edward Turner's last disaster, the Bandit/Fury...you would have thought that even Triumph would have lost faith in him, by then..

Edited June 28, 2017 by rockershovel

[The Blue Streak]

This is My Brothers and My Commando from around 2003

We started it and I got it finished after He passed away.

 

The Purists hated it. But it won a few trophies anyway.

It had a Mk2a 850 Engine with Megacycle Cam and single Mikuni, custom made BIG bore Primarys and Big Bore Shorty straight through "mufflers"

Akront Rims and stainless spokes, GS 750 front hub (from an Australian police Suzuki because they had spoked wheels instead of mags) , 18' rear wheel, Custom made billet triple clamps, with Suzuki GSX Forks with custom progressive rate springs and twin Disc Brakes from an Early Katana with braided lines and Bandit Master Cylinder. Flattish Bars and Semi Rear Set Pegs. The front guard was from a Triumph of some type (Bonny Special ?) but  the guard bracket was made from pretty heavy duty plate which doubled as a bit of a fork brace. There were a dozens of other little things as well but I can't remember them all off the top of my head..

 

It nearly bankrupted Me after it caught fire when the Fuel Tank split and it had to be fixed and I had to sell it because I ran the wife and I out of Money, after that incident. I sold it to a bloke up near Geraldton, I wish I knew where it was now I'd love to try and get it back one day.

 

BTW - It handled Mint, stopped on sixpence and went like stink, but you had to keep on top of it, with servicing.

(and just so I can say that It's reasonably on Topic - Pete, a Norton is not probably the best fit for what you want, so disregard them )

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by The Blue Streak

[BlackRat]

I must admit to having been tempted into buying a new Royal Enfield........maybe, just maybe.

[The Blue Streak]

I must admit to having been tempted into buying a new Royal Enfield........maybe, just maybe.

 

Yep, they tickle my fancy too

This is the one I like - not for everyone I admit - but it's eye candy to  Me

 

[chriswright03]

OK I will admit it as well I have looked at them.  The Guy who I worked for in Louth as an Instructor was selling them.  I say was because he passed away earlier this year.  I just had a thing for cafe racers at the time hence my link before to the cafe racer kits.  I read the reviews on the Royal Enfields and they are slated Royally!  So thought better of it.

[chriswright03]

Whilst at a certain shop in Boston yesterday looking for denim trousers for my wife for the bike I did spot this.  Nice but even on your budget Pete I doubt you would afford it!

 

 

[Horsetan]

I must admit to having been tempted into buying a new Royal Enfield........maybe, just maybe.

Didn't they build diesel motorbikes?

[2mmMark]

By strange co-incidence, I'm going to have a look at a Royal Enfield later on this morning, a 2008 Electa-X lean burn model.

 

I did have an Indian-built old-style 350 Bullet for a number of years which proved very reliable. Obviously QC was good the day it was built!

 

There's method in my madness as the Electra-X is compliant with the requirements of the London ULEZ coming in 2020 but it's still a relatively simple bike which can easily be "slightly modified" with a freer flowing exhaust & carb...

[2mmMark]

 

The Invention of Stainless, vernier adjusted Iso's was a godsend and probably just a standard component in a modern restoration.

 

Of course if Dennis Poore who owned Norton had gone with 270 degree parallel twin that Cosworth had designed for him, there would have been no need to dial out the vibration that came with stretching the old dominator motor to 750 and ultimately 828 (?).

Apparently he didn't like the sound of the Cosworth Motor (effectively 2 pots from their 3 litre V8) and thought it would be no good. (Funny how Yamaha more or less used the basis of that design years later for the TDM and TRX  and very effectively).

 

 

I believe Bob Trigg, who had a hand in the design at Norton, was asked by Yamaha to advise on the TDM & TRX. He evidently did a good job as my TDM is  a great bike to ride. Very civiised but with just enough raw edge to  remind you you're riding an 850cc twin.

[The Blue Streak]

Didn't they build diesel motorbikes?

 

Yes they did build a diesel model at one point. But I don't know or have even heard of anyone who bought one !

[Horsetan]

Yes they did build a diesel model at one point. But I don't know or have even heard of anyone who bought one !

 

I didn't know there were other diesel bikes! 

[BlackRat]

There is a fair bit of R&D going on re diesel bikes with the military, mainly due to NATO's one fuel (i.e. Diesel) policy.

 

I think petroleum is now banned from all US of A warships and the USMC are particularly keen.

 

Let's remember tho.......they re heavy oil engines so in conflict or combat zones, any type of oil can be chucked in.

 

Having run out of two stroke once, we ran our Canam 250's with a mix of petroleum and rifle oil, seemingly to no ill effect!!!!

 

Allegedly!