For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I've no idea where this is but with RHD and the entrance on the left its either Japan or the Malay peninsular. 

Inspired by certain Irish narrow gauge railcars?

 

Looks like it ought to have a VW badge on the front.😉

 

John

Edited August 8, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[PhilJ W]

10 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Inspired by certain Irish narrow gauge railcars?

 

Looks like it ought to have a VW badge on the front.😉

 

John

Those types of articulated buses were quite common in the 1940's and East Berlin operated double deck versions.

 

[Johann Marsbar]

6 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Those types of articulated buses were quite common in the 1940's and East Berlin operated double deck versions.

 

 

There was a solitary double-deck trolleybus of that type used in East Berlin, a couple of views of it being shown in this news item....

https://www.keybuses.com/article/berlin-considers-double-deck-trolleybuses

One of the 1950's Hamburg double deck trolleybuses is ollustrated in the piece as well

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

There was a solitary double-deck trolleybus of that type used in East Berlin, a couple of views of it being shown in this news item....

https://www.keybuses.com/article/berlin-considers-double-deck-trolleybuses

One of the 1950's Hamburg double deck trolleybuses is ollustrated in the piece as well

No access to that site for non subscribers.

[Johann Marsbar]

11 minutes ago, melmerby said:

No access to that site for non subscribers.

Well that's strange, as I'm not a subscriber to anything produced by Key Publications and I can read the page without any problems.

The "news" page in question was posted 18 months ago as well....

[melmerby]

On 31/07/2022 at 06:20, 37114 said:

There is an interesting video on YouTube from Routemasters4hire at the moment where they rescue Leyland National (PUK647R) from a firing range where it has been for the last 15 years for restoration. The video shows how they get it going and driveable to go on a low loader

Was new to Midland Red, Birmingham in 1977.

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Well that's strange, as I'm not a subscriber to anything produced by Key Publications and I can read the page without any problems.

The "news" page in question was posted 18 months ago as well....

This is what I get:

[Johann Marsbar]

5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

This is what I get:

 

Right, try this German wiki page .....

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberleitungsbus_Berlin_(1951–1973)

There is a photo of it at the bottom of the page.

[PhilJ W]

I found this, its the same article but can be read.

https://www.keybuses.com/article/berlin-considers-double-deck-trolleybuses

[melmerby]

1 minute ago, PhilJ W said:

I found this, its the same article but can be read.

https://www.keybuses.com/article/berlin-considers-double-deck-trolleybuses

That's the link to the same page that Johann posted.

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

Right, try this German wiki page .....

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberleitungsbus_Berlin_(1951–1973)

There is a photo of it at the bottom of the page.

Looks like somebody had to bend the trolley poles to go over the doppeldeck🙂

[PhilJ W]

28 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I found this, its the same article but can be read.

https://www.keybuses.com/article/berlin-considers-double-deck-trolleybuses

 

25 minutes ago, melmerby said:

That's the link to the same page that Johann posted.

But if you scroll down you can read the article.

[melmerby]

13 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

 

But if you scroll down you can read the article.

No I can't, there's nothing to read:

 

[PhilJ W]

29 minutes ago, melmerby said:

No I can't, there's nothing to read:

 

Strange, this is what I can see.

[melmerby]

I've tried it on another PC and it's the same☹️

Likewise my Motorola phone.

[melmerby]

Been poking around in the page code and found a link to that picture along with another one in the same place:

 

Got it.

If I click on the other image the page opens properly complete with the article! (It does say I am reading premium content.)

 

EDIT

The link looks identical but maybe there's something embedded (or not embedded) in it stopping the one link from opening the article, howver now that I have opened it it opens every time from the original link.

Edited August 9, 2022 by melmerby

[Rugd1022]

Spotted on the M1 last weekend...

 

[Johann Marsbar]

Couple of Midland Red Nationals at the Quorn Rally today.....

 

 

and a Volvo Ailsa....

 

 

[RANGERS]

2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Couple of Midland Red Nationals at the Quorn Rally today.....

 

 

and a Volvo Ailsa....

 

 

I often wonder if the motive for preserving certain vehicles is to prove to future generations just how bad some of them were.

[J. S. Bach]

7 minutes ago, RANGERS said:

I often wonder if the motive for preserving certain vehicles is to prove to future generations just how bad some of them were.

Especially with the doors on the wrong side!

Edited August 20, 2022 by J. S. Bach

[pH]

On 13/08/2022 at 08:44, Rugd1022 said:

Spotted on the M1 last weekend...

 

‘Slow Vehicle’? It must still have a governor. 

[37114]

7 hours ago, RANGERS said:

I often wonder if the motive for preserving certain vehicles is to prove to future generations just how bad some of them were.

Maybe that is the case otherwise how could anyone preserve a Guy Wulfranian?

 

That said some vehicles seem to get a bad reputation undeservedly, the Daimler DMS when passed on to operators other than London worked well and many had a decent service life when most of the London quirks had been removed.

[Gwiwer]

3 hours ago, 37114 said:

the Daimler DMS when passed on to operators other than London worked well and many had a decent service life when most of the London quirks had been removed.

Some of those quirks being the engineering staff whose attitude seemed to be “AEC or nothing”. The RTL fleet (Leyland PD2) had a fairly short life as well but they don’t have the stigma that the DMS still has many years after the last was withdrawn. Possibly because the RTLs were considered to be “RT family”. 
 

To this day I remain unconvinced that the DMS was the right bus for London. One-man operation (as it was then known) was regarded as essential to address rising costs and the eternal staff shortage.  The DMS also introduced much slower journey times, constantly-fogged windows and direct interaction between drivers - never recruited for their customer service skills - and passengers unfamiliar with and resistant to having their fares ready to pay on entry. The autofare machines were seldom in service and little-used when they were. 
 

It is true that some AEC products (Merlin and Swift family) brought these same problems to routes they were allocated to a few years earlier than the DMS. In many cases they were replaced by DMSs. 
 

London could have had a Routemaster-derived forward entrance one-man operated double-decker. It could have had twin doorways and a staircase amidships. The prototype was the single-doorway front-staircase FRM1. London politics dictated that the project was shelved in favour of off-the-peg provincial designs of which the DMS family numbered 2646.
 

The next double-decker worthy of being on London’s streets was the Leyland Titan TN15. Which in turn saw off a good mant DMSs and some of us finally breathed a sigh of relief.  

[RANGERS]

10 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Some of those quirks being the engineering staff whose attitude seemed to be “AEC or nothing”. The RTL fleet (Leyland PD2) had a fairly short life as well but they don’t have the stigma that the DMS still has many years after the last was withdrawn. Possibly because the RTLs were considered to be “RT family”. 
 

To this day I remain unconvinced that the DMS was the right bus for London. One-man operation (as it was then known) was regarded as essential to address rising costs and the eternal staff shortage.  The DMS also introduced much slower journey times, constantly-fogged windows and direct interaction between drivers - never recruited for their customer service skills - and passengers unfamiliar with and resistant to having their fares ready to pay on entry. The autofare machines were seldom in service and little-used when they were. 
 

It is true that some AEC products (Merlin and Swift family) brought these same problems to routes they were allocated to a few years earlier than the DMS. In many cases they were replaced by DMSs. 
 

London could have had a Routemaster-derived forward entrance one-man operated double-decker. It could have had twin doorways and a staircase amidships. The prototype was the single-doorway front-staircase FRM1. London politics dictated that the project was shelved in favour of off-the-peg provincial designs of which the DMS family numbered 2646.
 

The next double-decker worthy of being on London’s streets was the Leyland Titan TN15. Which in turn saw off a good mant DMSs and some of us finally breathed a sigh of relief.  

The RTLs were shorter lived as they were non-standard compared to the vast majority of the RT fleet, not to mention being more thirsty than the AEC counterparts but they were generally well thought of and many had lengthy lives after they left London.

 

The DMS was a classic example of a bus designed by committee, crammed with things which in reality it didn’t need, to do a job that nobody had really thought about. Whenever I see a preserved one, I often wonder whether it’s been restored back to its original spec and had the initial unreliability reinstated.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

London could have had a Routemaster-derived forward entrance one-man operated double-decker. It could have had twin doorways and a staircase amidships. The prototype was the single-doorway front-staircase FRM1. London politics dictated that the project was shelved in favour of off-the-peg provincial designs of which the DMS family numbered 2646.

The next double-decker worthy of being on London’s streets was the Leyland Titan TN15. Which in turn saw off a good mant DMSs and some of us finally breathed a sigh of relief.  

But London Transport did want the rear engined Routemaster but by then Leyland had got its hands on AEC/Park Royal and refused to build them telling LT that they could have Atlanteans or nothing. At the time Daimler were still independent so LT went for the Fleetline, deliveries had not long commenced when Leyland took over Daimler as well. The Titan TN15 owes a lot more to the Routemaster than many realise, plus a bit of Bristol VR thrown in. They were initially produced by Park Royal but industrial relations were allowed to deteriorate to such an extent that production was moved to Workington. The interruptions and late deliveries resulted in LT ordering  more Metrobuses which were never as good.