For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[Hujie]

[Enterprisingwestern]

7 minutes ago, Hujie said:

 

The result of a London bus crashing into a piano shop?

 

Mike.

[pH]

1 hour ago, Hujie said:

isn’t there a song about those?  https://youtu.be/7yHrpPRYgYM

 

 

 

 

[alastairq]

Reverting back to the bit about Bristol FLFs, and their forerunners...and crash gearboxes...the thing I really liked about the old Gardner engined Bristol deckers [pre-VR]...was how slow the engine turned over.

Revs were likely in no more than low double figures at tickover....or they felt like it.

However, with a crash gearbox, those low revs made gear getting [acquisition, for those who swallowed dictionaries?] a real pleasure, a piece-of-cake...one could, using but two fingers, apply gentle pressure to the gear lever, and actually feel the teeth going past...so easy to slip into the next gear.  Even a hill start in lowest gear, and crashing into 2nd, was no real problem...less of a crash, really...it could almost be done without the clutch!  Folks these days are only used to rev rev rev!

Shifting up or down the gearbox was really a quite leisurely affair.

 

Around this time, I also got a 'permanent' job driving for EYMS out of Bridlington depot [the original one, became a Kwikfit or some such once sold]....

In those days, [when used to United and their NBC colours] EYMS colours of very dark blue, and a primrose stripe, looked immensely tatty alongside the United buses.  Paint soon wore off the  rivets in the bodysides....

But, I read recently of old enthusiasts eulogising about how marvelous the EYMS AEC Renown deckers were?

 

Well, the may have been marvellous when compared to what EYMS ran before, but I found them to be a real curate's egg.

I managed to drive them fine..no problems...until the clutch fluid gradually disappeared when out on a run!  Hoping not to have to actually halt the bus at bus stops...[nice if it could be kept slowly rolling?]....clutchless gearchanges made easier by slack in the gear trains.....

Easier to get in & out of the cabs with their sliding doors [United FLFs had hinged doors, but neither had quite such a leg stretch getting in or out, as the EYMS AEC Bridgemasters....with their airbellows front suspension.....get the speed wrong when off to Flamborough along Sewerby Road....which looked flat, but was in reality a long roller coaster......and the Bridgies very nearly took off with their bouncing!

They had sliding cab doors, but the 'hole' was not overly large, and involved a but of a leg first dive when getting in.

I won't mention the EYMS Panther Cubs..........

[Metr0Land]

Speaking of FLF's this Eastern National vehicle spent most of 1979 on hire to Alder Valley (normally poppy red), ending its time at High Wycombe garage.  1st shot is Clayhall MoD housing opposire Booker aerodrome (which still saw peak hour journies) and then at the new Cressex housing estate.  The normal terminus had been Limmer Lane Booker but had been changed recently to serve the newer housing.

 

 

[leopardml2341]

Ah, AEC Bridgemasters - Rotherham had a handful along with a few Renowns and Regents in what was by the late '60s a mainly Daimler fleet.

 

The Bridgemasters being known as 'Bouncing Berthas' by the drivers, due to the aforementioned oscillation of the air suspension.

Edited January 20, 2021 by leopardml2341
Effin predictive text!

[PhilJ W]

Essex 1947. Look out for the City Coaches 6 wheel Leyland Tiger near the beginning. Plenty of other buses as well. 

 

[SRman]

16 hours ago, Hujie said:

 

LT1137, a one-off double decker coach on an AEC Renown chassis, intended as a Green Line coach but apparently not a success. It was numbered in the LT series rather than as an LTC.

I am currently near the end of constructing a kit-built LTC single decker in 4mm scale (a white metal RTC kit).

 

[J. S. Bach]

I collect transit stop signs and this just shouted out to me "BUY ME!", so I fished this out of the 'bay a couple of years ago :

Hardcastle Crags!!

 

 

My first from Baltimore, Maryland, I got this from in front of my parents house after it had been knocked down by a car:

Edited January 21, 2021 by J. S. Bach

[RANGERS]

15 hours ago, leopardml2341 said:

Ah, AEC Bridgemasters - Rotherham had a handful along with a few Renowns and Regents in what was by the late '60s a mainly Daimler fleet.

 

The Bridgemasters being known as 'Bouncing Berthas' by the drivers, due to the aforementioned oscillation of the air suspension.

The air suspension that AEC used on the Reliances and 'deckers provoked highly polarised views, mostly depending on whether the commentator knew them when they were fairly new or in later life once wear had set in.

 

The fact that it was short lived and was never developed into something more acceptable was characteristic of two things, firstly that it wasn't very good in its initial incarnation and secondly that AEC as part of Leyland by that time, had neither the resources or the inclination of the senior management to develop something that has since become universally accepted into the leading edge technology that it was. Instead, the decker range died a death in 1967 and the Reliance eked out its remaining decade on type of underpinnings that had graced passenger transport 200 years previously. A classic example of the appalling industrial strategy that the UK pursued in the 1960s and 70s.

[PhilJ W]

Once Leyland had got its hands on AEC it died a slow lingering death under Leyland management. The air suspension was more successful on the Routemaster but still needed development. But Leyland were more interested in pushing their own products even to the extent that they refused to produce the rear engined Routemaster for London Transport instead offering the Atlantean. London Transport then went to Daimler which was then independent of Leyland for their rear engined deckers.

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

London Transport then went to Daimler which was then independent of Leyland for their rear engined deckers.

And ended up with 2646 "Daimlers" a goodly number of which were in fact built by and badged "Leyland".  The 50 early ones were considered an experimental class type code XA for Experimental Atlantean.  The larger lot were variously DMS, DM or just plain D for Dreadful Mobile Sh*theap, Doesn't Move or simply Dreadful.  Other interpretations of the class letters may be available   

[PhilJ W]

They were followed by the Titan, which was a cross between the rear engined Routemaster and the Bristol VR. Many of them were fitted with the L12 engine which was basically the AEC AV690. In fact a lot of the last Leylands such as the Marathon was an AEC in all but name. 

[figworthy]

19 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

I collect transit stop signs and this just shouted out to me "BUY ME!", so I fished this out of the 'bay a couple of years ago :

Hardcastle Crags!!

 

 

When I was knee high to the proverbial grasshopper, I was taken on a bus trip to Hardcastle Crags.  At one point, we all had to get off and walk as the bus wasn't powerful enough to get up the hill with the passengers on board.

 

Adrian

[John M Upton]

The TN series Titan which, despite high hopes for big sales by Leyland only ever really sold to LT (Reading, WMPTE and I think one or two others did take a few as well, many of which eventually wound up with LT themselves!) and was more a double deck Leyland National than anything else.

 

The integral design just didn't click with most operators, it was over engineered (well, it was effectively a LT spec bus so what did they expect?!?) and as usual for the period, many were built late or indeed not at all thanks to the usual industrial dispute shenanigans that basically destroyed the Leyland empire from within.

 

Needless to say LT got frustrated and took their money elsewhere which saw the MCW Metrobus become a big winner of orders as a result.

 

For the more domestic non LT market, the Olympian came along instead, effectively a Bristol VR Mk IV (it was even built in the old Bristol Commercial Vehicles factory and some were taxed as Bristols!) with the operators preferred choice of bodywork, a far more flexible and attractive option whilst the Titan, good bus as it was became largely confined to a footnote in history.

 

On that note, time for a couple of pics:

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by John M Upton

[John M Upton]

Ah, let's chuck a couple of London Metrobus's in as well whilst I am about it:

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by John M Upton

[PhilJ W]

The only problem with the Metrobus was it was like many cars of the 50's and 60's, prone to corrosion. There were a few taken into preservation that eventually had to be scrapped because of corrosion.

[John M Upton]

Indeed, talking to a friend of mine in the bus preservation scene (he owns three buses and drives trains!!) the MCW Metrobus is notorious for the rear part of the chassis frame crumbling to dust, unfortunately that is what the engine is bolted to so needless to say gravity can take over.

 

Common problem with MCW products, their pioneering almost ahead of its time Metrorider suffered the same issues which is why so few are preserved.

 

Excuse for a couple of MCW Metrorider pictures....

 

 

When MCW collapsed, the Metrorider design was bought by Optare (the reborn Roe Coachbuilders) who did a bit of a revamp on the design but it wasn't much better:

 

[RANGERS]

8 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

 The air suspension was more successful on the Routemaster but still needed development.

Most Routemasters had coil spring suspension, only the Coach versions for Greenline used air and the independent set up at the front made a world of difference to the ride and handling, though granted it was game for improving. The coil spring set up was also offered on the Reliance but I don’t believe any were ever built.

 

5 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

They were followed by the Titan, which was a cross between the rear engined Routemaster and the Bristol VR. Many of them were fitted with the L12 engine which was basically the AEC AV690. In fact a lot of the last Leylands such as the Marathon was an AEC in all but name. 

The standard Titan engine was intended to be the Leyland 500 but the market did on that occasion prevail, the Gardner 6LXB was the standard for most London vehicles until the Leyland TL11 came into play. The L12 was the final development of the later AEC engine lineage that began with the AV410 in 1953 and was derived from the AV760, I don’t believe it saw use in any of the PSV range though the horizontal version of 760 was used in the last 7 years of Reliance production, and a fitting end to the marque it really was. Ours would do over 10mpg whilst cruising comfortably in pre-speed limiter days at 65-70 on the motorway, and unlike its Leopard cousins, would actually stop when you asked them to!

[alastairq]

10 hours ago, RANGERS said:

Most Routemasters had coil spring suspension, only the Coach versions for Greenline used air and the independent set up at the front made a world of difference to the ride and handling, though granted it was game for improving.

 You are not kidding!!!

When I drove out of New Cross depot, early 1970's..my 'normal rostered route was the #1, which, at the time, was RT every day except Sundays, when we got RMs cascaded down off the normal RM routes [141, 171, 53]...

The RM was a world apart, as a driver, from the RT.

The front suspension looked like a giant Vauxhall Viva!

So, smooth ride, more room & comfort for the driver in the cab, faster on acceleration, nice jolt-free ride, power steering, warm, etc, plus an automatic gearbox [with a manual over ride....auto only achieved once the gear lever was in 4th [top]....where it could be left if not in a particular hurry...........or not overly heavy.]

Bliss.

[John Harris]

I assume most here will have memories of the Matchbox range of toy die-casts? 

 

Well, the parent company ran a fleet of buses to collect workers for their factories in East London, 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, they did "Matchbox" models of these buses,

 

 

jch

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by John Harris

[alastairq]

11 hours ago, John M Upton said:

The TN series Titan which, despite high hopes for big sales by Leyland only ever really sold to LT (Reading, WMPTE and I think one or two others did take a few as well, many of which eventually wound up with LT themselves!) and was more a double deck Leyland National than anything else.

 

The integral design just didn't click with most operators, it was over engineered (well, it was effectively a LT spec bus so what did they expect?!?) and as usual for the period, many were built late or indeed not at all thanks to the usual industrial dispute shenanigans that basically destroyed the Leyland empire from within.

 

Needless to say LT got frustrated and took their money elsewhere which saw the MCW Metrobus become a big winner of orders as a result.

 

For the more domestic non LT market, the Olympian came along instead, effectively a Bristol VR Mk IV (it was even built in the old Bristol Commercial Vehicles factory and some were taxed as Bristols!) with the operators preferred choice of bodywork, a far more flexible and attractive option whilst the Titan, good bus as it was became largely confined to a footnote in history.

 

On that note, time for a couple of pics:

 

 

 

 

 Goodness me!

I remember driving the 185 route [which New Cross depot shared with....Catford??]....on very rare occasions....depended on the roster really...or overtime?

 

I think, it was when on the 185 route that I was involved in one of the many collisions I had a hand in during my driving lifetime [never ever blamed, never ever had a successful claim made against me, though].......Working from dim memory, on the road out of Lewisham towards new Cross, just before going under a railway bridge....a side street joined from the near side....which came from around the back of the shops on Lewisham High Street, I think? Where buses would stand or turn? Anyway, in heavy, very slow moving traffic, I was across the end of the side street, when the bus [an RT] was tee-boned by a large Vauxhall from the left, hitting just in front of the rear wheels. Luckily no-one was downstairs at the time, and the first I knew about it was when the bus wouldn't move any more.  I didn't actually 'feel' anything...and certainly only saw the damage when I turned round in the seat! My conductor was on the platform at the time, saw it all....  Certainly, our shift's work ended at that point.  

[Metr0Land]

18 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

And ended up with 2646 "Daimlers"

 

Fun fact, LT only ever had a max of 2645 on charge at any time.  One burnt out completely just before the final deliveries (sorry can't remember which).

[Johann Marsbar]

One of an LT Titan taken whilst visiting relations in Hornchurch back in October 1980.....

 

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

 Goodness me!

I remember driving the 185 route [which New Cross depot shared with....Catford??]....on very rare occasions....depended on the roster really...or overtime?

 

I think, it was when on the 185 route that I was involved in one of the many collisions I had a hand in during my driving lifetime [never ever blamed, never ever had a successful claim made against me, though].......Working from dim memory, on the road out of Lewisham towards new Cross, just before going under a railway bridge....a side street joined from the near side....which came from around the back of the shops on Lewisham High Street, I think? Where buses would stand or turn? Anyway, in heavy, very slow moving traffic, I was across the end of the side street, when the bus [an RT] was tee-boned by a large Vauxhall from the left, hitting just in front of the rear wheels. Luckily no-one was downstairs at the time, and the first I knew about it was when the bus wouldn't move any more.  I didn't actually 'feel' anything...and certainly only saw the damage when I turned round in the seat! My conductor was on the platform at the time, saw it all....  Certainly, our shift's work ended at that point.  

My dad drove for Eastern National out of Brentwood garage in the early 60's. He was driving a front loading FLF and waiting for the passengers to load when his conductor gave the emergency signal. A car was embedded in the back of the bus but my dad had never felt a thing.