For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[John M Upton]

Hong Kong also had a number of ex Southdown Queen Mary PD3's, some later rebuilt to half cab format bizarrely.  One actually appears in one of the Peter Sellers era Pink Panther films and I am pretty sure another appears in a James Bond film in the background (Man With the Golden Gun?)

Edited January 16, 2021 by John M Upton

[Metr0Land]

I managed to film one which hopefully will apear when the scan is cleaned up.  In the very short time I had, there seemed to be an awful lot of Guy Arabs. Possibly they were the best thing around secondhand at the time for the hill climbing in the area.

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

I managed to film one which hopefully will apear when the scan is cleaned up.  In the very short time I had, there seemed to be an awful lot of Guy Arabs. Possibly they were the best thing around secondhand at the time for the hill climbing in the area.

If your talking about Hong Kong most if not all of the Guy Arabs were purchased new. Initially they were single deck with Gardner 5LW engines. They were relatively short for a single decker, only 26 feet long and only about 30 seats. Most were eventually converted to double deck and fitted with 6LW engines. 

[decauville1126]

6 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Hong Kong also had a number of ex Southdown Queen Mary PD3's, some later rebuilt to half cab format bizarrely.  One actually appears in one of the Peter Sellers era Pink Panther films and I am pretty sure another appears in a James Bond film in the background (Man With the Golden Gun?)

 

They also "gifted" us by way of unexpired book value some tri-axle Olympians. Had to drive them into London on Megabus from Brighton. Absolute slugs - wonderful queues going up Handcross Hill on the A23, and bashing your head when bottoming out at the bottom on the return leg.

[Metr0Land]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

If your talking about Hong Kong most if not all of the Guy Arabs were purchased new. Initially they were single deck with Gardner 5LW engines. They were relatively short for a single decker, only 26 feet long and only about 30 seats. Most were eventually converted to double deck and fitted with 6LW engines. 

 

I thought quite a few were converted using 2nd hand bodies from UK, esp Yorkshire Woolen?

[PhilJ W]

The double deck bodies were supplied new in CKD form by Duple-Metsec who were later taken over by Alexander. Here is an example of one of the later (Alexander) rebodied Guy Arabs:-

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by PhilJ W

[Metr0Land]

Along with the Atlateans posted earlier, the following are all the pics I have of my Sept 78 visit to Hong Kong.

 

HK4212 a Guy Arab in use as a staff bus.

HK4208 another Guy Arab grab shot.  This seems to have been very camera shy.

A double deck Guy Arab and general street view AC4781/LX65.  Possibly another Atleantean going away in the distance.

AD4571/LS40.

AH4118/M25

PD3 PD504/BH3759.  Afraid I don't know its former Southdown id.

[John M Upton]

PD504 definitely ex Southdown.  Very distinctive!

[PhilJ W]

3 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

Along with the Atlateans posted earlier, the following are all the pics I have of my Sept 78 visit to Hong Kong.

 

HK4212 a Guy Arab in use as a staff bus.

HK4208 another Guy Arab grab shot.  This seems to have been very camera shy.

A double deck Guy Arab and general street view AC4781/LX65.  Possibly another Atleantean going away in the distance.

AD4571/LS40.

AH4118/M25

PD3 PD504/BH3759.  Afraid I don't know its former Southdown id.

HK4212 is from the second batch of Guy Arab 'short' (25 feet) single deckers (HK 4207-16). It had a 5LW engine and pre-selective gearbox and was fitted with a Metal Sections body (S30+14 standing) assembled in Hong Kong.

HK4208 is from the same batch and was converted to a tree lopper.

AC4781 Is a Guy Arab V fitted with a 6LW engine and metal sections body 30 foot long.

AC4571 was a similar bus to the one above but much rebuilt as many were. Note that this one is OPO with coin box fare collection. These buses, delivered in several batches could be described as the 'standard' Hong Kong bus of the 60's and were rebuilt several times.

BH3759 is ex Southdown and was 6950 CD.

[J. S. Bach]

When the USS Kitty Hawk (CVA-63) visited Hong Kong back in 1972, I had little interest in the buses, just the Victoria Peak incline and the trolleys. Note that I only rode the trolleys' upper deck and wish now that I had ridden one of the trailers. I only knew about the Peak incline from watching a movie that had a camera facing out the rear window and the overhead was passing by as the car ascended the peak. Some humor: I remember looking down a side street and seeing a shop named "FAR EAST BALLS FACTORY"; I almost lost it when I read that!  I realized later that it probably sold/made fishing net floats. I did go back and take a photo of it. 

[Metr0Land]

M&D AEC Reliance post-script.  Going through some old slides I found this Reliance in use in north Wales 1984.  A grab shot of 340NKT by Carnarvon Castle.

[alastairq]

AEC Reliances?

When I saw the light, and left London [for good] and moved up thisaway north, I got a temporary job, in spring of 1974, with Primrose Valley Coaches, [near Filey].

 

It was just for a month or so, whilst I waited for the 'call' from United Auto at Scarborough......to pay the rent, etc.  

They had 3 Reliances [blue & cream, IIRC?] which they operated as service buses [stage carriage] between several holiday campsites, and Filey town.

Despite having a PSV licence from London Transport [the pre-selector gearboxes on the RTs were classified as 'automatics' for licensing purposes], I had to undergo another PSV test, for manual single deck, from Yorkshire Area Traffic Commissioners.  I was tested by the Examiner at Eastfield, Scarborough, using a Reliance.

They were not too bad to drive, as saloons went.....

I just wish the boss had informed me of 'crawler' gear, and where it was?  Needless to say, the Examiner knew it had one....and insisted I acquire it during the gearchange exercise....I took a guess that it was opposite reverse, in the gate? [Of which there was no diagram at all]...... Luckily, my intuitive guess was correct, and I doubled the clutch into it at about 2 mph!

End of April I 'got the call' and went to United, where I had to take yet another PSV test, this time for manual  deckers.

On the day of my 2nd test, same examiner as it happened, who had already decided I would 'pass', took me for a [2nd] 'move off uphill] on Oliver's Mount at Scarborough. Test vehicle was an ancient [by todays standards] Bristol decker, 4 speed crash box { Probably a LD6B?}.....We pulled up, and with a huge wink of the eye, he 'informed' me that he was going to place a box of matches behind the rear wheel. Woe betide me if I crushed the matchbox moving off!  This was for the benefit of the other test candidates, all sat upstairs, listening intently [I was the only one who had already got a PSV of one form or another]....Moving off really was a 'crash' tween 1st and 2nd....but I'm sure the bus lurched a bit as those upstairs rushed to the back to see if the matchbox was still intact....

 

Whilst I drove at Primmy Valley, they also had a small ECW saloon, powered by Albion.  It had a small 4 banger engine, but a proper stage carriage saloon body. It had the weirdest gearchange gate I had come across at the time.....So confusing, the cab floor had a map of it, cast into the steel floor.  Power wasn't much, even by the standards of the day. I believe it may have come from Wales originally?   Used primarily for school contracts.  painted green, with a cream band {IIRC??}

[alastairq]

 

Not the colour it was when i drove it.....

[Metr0Land]

http://www.bristolsu.co.uk/Su/operatordetails/bristolomnibus/862rae.htm

[alastairq]

Indeed it is. The piccy above was, I think, taken when it was based at Phillips of Shiptonthorpe?  I suspect they purchased it off Primrose Valley Coaches?

Certainly it was in the NBC green & cream when I drove it.

Dinky little thing..If only12 years later, something similar had been available to United/EYMS when they went to so-called minibuses in Scarborough.

Despite its small size [lengthwise] it was a 'proper little bus', not a converted parcel van, as the minibuses would be over a decade later [ or, even earlier in Bridlington, where they used Ford Transit converted parcels vans]

 

One thing I do recall from those days, was the driver's seating position, on the older [Pre-VR] Bristol deckers?  One's feet were way up in the air, when compared to AEC RT's, Routemasters, or Renowns [as EYMS had back in those heady days of 3 day working weeks, petrol rationing, power cuts, etc?]...One literally sat on the base of one's spine.

The saloons I came across & drove , Bristol, before the LS or the RE era, were equally not designed for a driver taller than 5 foot 11... Pottering around the likes of Robin Hood's Bay in one of these, on a service from Whitby to Scarborough, certainly tested one's agility on the clutch pedal,. if, like me, one was well over 6 foot tall!  There simply was not enough distance between the top of the clutch pedal, and the underside of the huge steering wheel, for someone of my size to get their left leg in, without it being cockled right over to the left.... Neither was there enough room between dash board and bulkhead behind the driver, to move the seat back any further.

Plus, cold draughts up ones trouser legs were a regular occurance!

Would such 'conditions' be tolerated by today's drivers? I wonder........

[alastairq]

Whilst on about 'conditions'.....does anyone recall the Plymouth Corporation Buses,  conditions of employment [in the early 1970's]?

They would not employ any driver who was over 5 foot 11 inches tall!

Due to a [Union??] agreement whereby every new driver had to first serve 3 months  as a conductor?  

The downstairs saloon headroom was about a mere 6 foot.....so only short folk would be employed.

 

I now, because I went there looking for a job [enquiring really], and they were so short of driving staff they welcomed me with open arms, until they saw how tall I was.  All that whilst on annual leave from London Transport..I fancied a move somewhere less.....dingy than London?  Did the same with Western National too...a pleasant couple of days spent driving buses around Devon on driving assessments....

Lordy know why I ended up at the opposite end of the country????

Edited January 18, 2021 by alastairq

[Dunsignalling]

Southern and Western National had quite a few SUs for routes that went down narrow country roads.

 

They also had coach versions for rural tours, mainly over Dartmoor and Exmoor. 

 

Here's a shot of preserved Western National 420 (270 KTA) taking part in Taunton Bus Day, May 2017.

 

John

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Dunsignalling
Spelling

[leopardml2341]

@alastairq the Blue and Cream AEC Saloons at Primrose valley were probably ex Rotherham Corporation Transport ones. Mi dad would've driven all  of em in Rotherham at one time or another. I rode some but most were gone by the time I was old enough to appreciate them.

[alastairq]

Yes, indeed they were.  My memory is somewhat hazy, but I think I'd left by the time one of the three got a red & white paint scheme?  

[leopardml2341]

I only saw one of them; that was in Primrose Valley livery.

[pH]

On 18/01/2021 at 07:23, alastairq said:

On the day of my 2nd test, same examiner as it happened, who had already decided I would 'pass', took me for a [2nd] 'move off uphill] on Oliver's Mount at Scarborough. Test vehicle was an ancient [by todays standards] Bristol decker, 4 speed crash box ...Moving off really was a 'crash' tween 1st and 2nd....

Simple cure for that - don’t change up!

 

I heard of an ‘incident’ where a new driver, with a heavily-loaded Bristol FLF on a Saturday night, couldn’t get away from a stop on a steep hill. It was usual to start manual buses in second, but in this case it wouldn’t do it, and he couldn’t get it into first.
 

Among the passengers was another driver, on the way home from a night out. He went round to the cab, got the driver to step out, climbed in and got the bus into first. He then stood up with his foot on the clutch, got the driver to slip in behind him, sit down and get his foot on the clutch too. Then the ‘relief’ driver got out, back into the bus and they set off up the hill. The bus went the whole way - about half a mile - to the top of the hill in first gear. The driver was afraid to risk a change.

[leopardml2341]

My (ex) leopard was crash between 1st & 2nd, never did master a snatch change - every attempt seemed to react differently.

[alastairq]

I admit to never having a problem with a crash change, 1st to 2nd on a hill...Plus, a gearchange was expected.....and Oliver's Mount  was a looooong hill.

 

With the Bristol FLF which [IIRC?] had a 5 speed box, there was no neutral position between 5th  and 4th....IE the gearlever didn't pass through the neutral position.

So one was forbidden from stopping in top gear.

I don't recall getting caught out by this, manager's carpet-wise...

[pH]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

With the Bristol FLF which [IIRC?] had a 5 speed box, there was no neutral position between 5th  and 4th....IE the gearlever didn't pass through the neutral position.

So one was forbidden from stopping in top gear.

I don't recall getting caught out by this, manager's carpet-wise...

In the Greenock Western SMT garage, of the Bristol Lodekkas bought new, I think all the buses with a 5th gear (known as ‘booster’ gear) except two were LDs. Incidentally, I see the two FLFs with 5th gear were originally preserved, though I wouldn’t bet on them still being in existence now. One of them was a shift bus on a two mile route - uphill all the way in one direction, steep downhills and town streets in the other. There was maybe a couple of hundred yards on the downhill run where the driver might be able to get it into 5th. Quite a waste.

[J. S. Bach]

I was just talking to friend and he told me that his favorite London bus is the double-deck LT. And he has never been anywhere near London!