For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[RANGERS]

After a bit of a break, some photos from the West Midlands

 

Bassetts of Tittensor, Stoke on Trent are a long established haulage operator who ran coaches until the early 2000s when the coach fleet was disposed of. This Leyland Leopard with Duple Dominant 57 seat body was typical of the fleet in the 1970s and 80s.

Something of a rarity among independent operators, Bassetts found the Bristol LH favourable, perhaps as it was akin to some of the vehicles in their haulage fleet with a Leyland 400 engine and constant mesh gear change. The Plaxton body seated 51 and had been new with Robinsons, Gt Harwood, Lancs

Another unusual vehicle from the Leyland group stable was the Leyland Panther, a rear engine coach version of the slightly more popular service bus chassis. This 51 seat Plaxton bodied example had been new to Seamarks of Luton before gravitating west to Ladvale Travel of Dursley.

Midland Red took Plaxton bus and coach bodies on various chassis over a number of years but this batch on Leyland Leopards were of an economy style of Panorama body which were built long after that model had been superseded by the Panorama Elite. The simplified exterior brightwork and plain interior panels of this batch defined what must have been an economy measure.

Typifying the rolling stock of countless independent operators the length and breadth of the country in the the late 70s, the Duple Dominant II bodied Bedford YMT was the archetypical coach for huge numbers of them. This one was supplied to Johnsons of Henley in Arden, today one of the largest independent operators in the UK.

Rover of Stroud are an independent operator who continue to run coaches in the Cotswolds. This Ford R1014 with Plaxton body was new to them in 1977.

A lost operator is Red House Motor Services of Coventry who ceased their coach operations in 1980. This Leyland Leopard with Plaxton coachwork typified the fleet in the 1970s.

Another long established operator, Bourton in the Water based Pulhams continue as Gloucestershire's largest independent operator. Although Plaxton coachwork still predominates, today's fleet of Volvo and Mercedes buses and coaches contrasts with the Plaxton Elite III Express bodied Leyland Leopard of 1973.

[RThompson]

Just come across this thread.

 

My particular interest is in London buses from the mid 90's which all my vehicles are semi preserved and represent the buses of my youth before moving to Shropshire.

 

The oldest bus in my fleet is RMC1490 on performing the all stns emergency rail replacement Shrewsbury to Caersws on Tuesday.

 

 

A general view of the rear with correct blinds shown but didn't slot in "The Beckton Express" board in the side.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by RThompson

[chrisf]

Getting a bus with folding platform doors will turn out to have been a shrewd move.

 

Chris

[Gwiwer]

I have fond memories of the X15. I considered it worthwhile travelling via Beckton rather than District Line to East Ham in order to enjoy Routemaster coaches doing what they were designed for. Limited stop work. When the new servce was first announced it was described as “using buses with conductors and folding platform doors”. I had expected crew-worked Leyland Nationals. I don’t think my jaw could have dropped any further the first time I saw one of the overhauled and repainted RMCs approaching, blue blinds immaculately set and the Beckton Express slipboard in the clips at the lower front nearside window. There were even newspapers available on board.

 

In addition to the RMC fleet a single RMA airport coach was also used. I only managed one trip on that. Having no destination gear it carried a blue destination board in the clips.

 

The service quickly became popular at peak times, sometimes carrying standing loads. But the off-peak, contra-peak and Saturday journeys were little used. Traffic died overnight once the DLR opened and the route was withdrawn as had always been intended. The buses appeared at times on the main all-day routes 15 / 15B until that became driver-only. The specially-chosen crews resumed their position on Upton Park’s main roster. The DLR train captains were no replacement for the cheery “Good Morning Sir” and amiable banter we got from our X15 conductors.

[PhilJ W]

I remember the RMA 'airport' coaches on the 175 route when LT had such a severe shortage of buses that they went into service still in their BEA orange/white livery. One thing that struck me was that the seats were identical to those of the Greenline RCL coaches with the deep cushions and grey/maroon moquette.

[RThompson]

Hello everyone,

 

Thank you for the interest in RMC1490.

 

She's been in the fleet since October, unfortunately though she's the reason I won't attending exhibitions with RT Models as most Saturdays are taken up on Weddings.

 

I have a attached some more photos, especially the inside.

 

Originally she had luggage racks running along the ceiling, a set of these is present should I wish to reinstate them.

 

Note the difference in the staircase area, no cut away for the conductor like on RM's and RML's.

 

For those interested in the mechanical side, she still has a 9.6 litre AEC AV590 engine, coil springs on the front and air bags on the rear. 

 

Her differential has been changed back in January back to a country diff as new rather than the standard city diff that was changed over in the late 1980's for her role on the X15. This means she can go a bit more faster now as most roads round my way are national speed limit.

 

Other than the mechanical side, nothings been done to the bodywork by myself.

 

For those interested, RMC1490 will be operating the Shrewsbury and Ironbridge sightseeing tour from May.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by RThompson

[Gwiwer]

And of course RMC1490 now sports standard Routemaster "red" moquette rather than the original Green Line Coach style which was silver-grey, red and black.  At least the seats are still the lovely deep Green Line originals though there wasn't much wrong with the standard RM / RML offering.  Compared with today these buses offered a touch of class and comfort which actually won people over rather than putting them off.  Beckton residents actually swapped their cars for the bus when the X15 started.

 

The fluorescent lighting is also original; most Routemasters had incandescent bulbs but the coaches (Green Line and airport) always had the strips as another touch of modernity and class.

I must have travelled on RMC1490 as I believe I made several trips on all of Upton Park's RMC allocation for the X15.  I also managed trips on most when they turned up at random on the 15/15B including RMC1461 which went on to be returned to near-original Green Line livery while still working "red" bus route 15 for Stagecoach East London and is one of the few London buses I have driven in the Capital.  As opposed to the many second-hand and short-term hired ones I drove at Western National though none of those was anything like as good as a Routemaster.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Gwiwer

[RThompson]

I remember the RMA 'airport' coaches on the 175 route when LT had such a severe shortage of buses that they went into service still in their BEA orange/white livery. One thing that struck me was that the seats were identical to those of the Greenline RCL coaches with the deep cushions and grey/maroon moquette.

The RMA's was capable of doing 70mph towing a trailer with BEA!

[PhilJ W]

The RMA's was capable of doing 70mph towing a trailer with BEA!

The RCL's were equally fast, I had a girlfriend who lived in Brentwood in the 1970's and I often followed the last 721 back into Romford. They often left my Ford 100E standing. IIRC the RMA's and RCL's were the only Routemasters with the larger AV690 engines.

[Mad McCann]

I assume these machines had manual boxes given their vintage? Must have been a more demanding drive than the autos I drive. Lovely restoration, Bob! :-)

 

D4

[leopardml2341]

I assume these machines had manual boxes given their vintage? Must have been a more demanding drive than the autos I drive. Lovely restoration, Bob! :-)

 

D4

Semi automatic IIRC.

 

Bit far south for me though

[PhilJ W]

I assume these machines had manual boxes given their vintage? Must have been a more demanding drive than the autos I drive. Lovely restoration, Bob! :-)

 

D4

Automatic and semi automatic buses have been around for a long time, almost 80 years.

[Co-tr-Paul]

If we are talking acceleration, when the Leyland Lynx was new, for those that k

now Bristol, I pulled away from the bottom of Park Street when an XR3 tried to overtake.... It failed ! Now that's a bus !!

[Gwiwer]

The RCL's were equally fast, I had a girlfriend who lived in Brentwood in the 1970's and I often followed the last 721 back into Romford. They often left my Ford 100E standing. IIRC the RMA's and RCL's were the only Routemasters with the larger AV690 engines.

 

Correct. And both types moved. I once boarded late-running RCL-worked 414 in Horsham. The normally sedate run up through the A24 villages was taken at speeds between 45 - 55mph though was perfectly comfortable despite all the twists and turns. And we were back on time long before the other end at West Croydon was reached.

 

 

I assume these machines had manual boxes given their vintage? Must have been a more demanding drive than the autos I drive. Lovely restoration, Bob! :-)

 

D4

Preselector semi-automatics with a steering column mounted selector lever. A bit different in operation to more recent semi-autos which change when the selector is moved. Definitely not manual. Some LT drivers had to undergo additional training and a pass a manual test before the manual-box Bristol LHS class (BS) could be introduced.

[RThompson]

Automatic and semi automatic buses have been around for a long time, almost 80 years.

The Routemasters also have power assisted steering.

 

This RMC is fully auto (built new as semi) if I wanted to but I always drive as a semi auto, especially as the diff has been changed back so starting in first gear is more important than before.

 

These along with the Leyland Titan B15 and Olympian with Hydracyclic gearbox would start in 2nd gear, not first.

[RThompson]

If we are talking acceleration, when the Leyland Lynx was new, for those that k

now Bristol, I pulled away from the bottom of Park Street when an XR3 tried to overtake.... It failed ! Now that's a bus !!

The Lynx comes in my top 3 fastest buses, the next was a Volvo B10BLE that was with Wardle Transport, I was warned. When I entered the A50 I opened her up, warp speed is a understatement. There was a reason it was normally allocated to the X50 From Stoke On Trent to Derby, it was the only bus that could keep to time.

 

The other was a Volvo B10B new to Trent that I had and now sold into preservation.

[Gwiwer]

It might not have done the greasy bits much good nor was it how the Chiswick driving school taught its pupils but many a Routemaster was regularly started in second in order to regain precious seconds. It might have been slightly slower at first but you got up to traffic speed without needing a change and didn’t always need third.

[RThompson]

And of course RMC1490 now sports standard Routemaster "red" moquette rather than the original Green Line Coach style which was silver-grey, red and black.  At least the seats are still the lovely deep Green Line originals though there wasn't much wrong with the standard RM / RML offering.  Compared with today these buses offered a touch of class and comfort which actually won people over rather than putting them off.  Beckton residents actually swapped their cars for the bus when the X15 started.

 

The fluorescent lighting is also original; most Routemasters had incandescent bulbs but the coaches (Green Line and airport) always had the strips as another touch of modernity and class.

I must have travelled on RMC1490 as I believe I made several trips on all of Upton Park's RMC allocation for the X15.  I also managed trips on most when they turned up at random on the 15/15B including RMC1461 which went on to be returned to near-original Green Line livery while still working "red" bus route 15 for Stagecoach East London and is one of the few London buses I have driven in the Capital.  As opposed to the many second-hand and short-term hired ones I drove at Western National though none of those was anything like as good as a Routemaster.

Gwiwer, Do you remember if the X15 RMC's had sliding cab Windows as the buses magazine article on the Beckton Express says they did, RMC1490 sports the standard solid window.

[Gwiwer]

Ooh now you’re asking. I really can’t say for sure but as they worked turns on the 15/15B which were crewed by any of Upton Park’s finest as opposed to those hand-picked for the X15 then an educated guess would suggest that if they were materially different from the regular RMLs the drivers might have refused to take them.

[PhilJ W]

The fastest coach I've ridden on was an AEC Reliance with an AH760 and a ZF 6 speed gearbox. It was at least third hand with a local coach operator. It was hired for a trip to Germany and it was able to reach in excess of 90 mph on the Autobahns, possibly it achieved the ton at some point. This was when the Autobahns were unlimited.

[RThompson]

This is the 2nd oldest bus in the fleet and restoration has stalled.

 

A set of doors to reinstate the centre doors has been sourced and got to be collected.

 

New to London Buses as VC23 for route 133, my old local route.

 

New as registration G123NGN then 23CLT

 

A northern counties palatine 1 bodied Volvo Citybus D10M mid engined bus making her 14'9" high.

 

The only volvo city uses bought by London buses.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by RThompson

[RThompson]

A photo of VC23 when new,

 

Photo taken by Bill Young. Permission was given to use.

 

[Gwiwer]

Fastest bus or coach? One of Trathens fleet of Neoplan Skyliners. Having set off from VCS not long after the service moved there from the original Gloucester Road Coach Station mud bath we promptly ground to a halt at Sloane Square with seized brakes. A replacement Skyliner was despatched from their Brentford base and we resumed the journey after about 90 minutes. I thought we were moving as the driver, who was also obliged to stop and refuel at Heston costing another 20 minutes, used only the right-hand lanes of the M4 and M5 overtaking just about everything. Using the roadside markers and overhead signs as a very approximate guide suggested we were cruising at an average speed well above 80 and possibly touching 90 at times. Plymouth Bretonside was reached just 40 minutes late. I’m glad I didn’t have that on my tacho. But at least it was magnificently smooth and comfortable. Which was more than could be said for the NatEx offerings (middle-aged Leopards IIRC) trying to compete.

[SRman]

I assume these machines had manual boxes given their vintage? Must have been a more demanding drive than the autos I drive. Lovely restoration, Bob! :-)

 

D4

 

Routemasters came along in the late 1950s (apart from two prototype units that first ran in - I think - 1954). This was about the time that AEC and Leyland started using the Monocontrol style semi- or fully automatic gearboxes and selectors. LT stayed with the earlier style of steering column selectors on the Routemaster family, but used the newer direct-selection mode for their operation. They could be left in fully auto mode (set up to start in second gear), or they could be driven with manual gear selection. Coach Routemasters (RMC and RCL) didn't have the automatic control from new, as far as I know. That may possibly have also applied to country area RMLs, but I am uncertain on that score.

 

Earlier generations of London Transport buses in the RT and RF families used pre-selector gearboxes, where the driver selected the gear he wanted, then pressed the gear-change pedal (a third pedal that was not a clutch - they had fluid flywheels), which then engaged that gear. The driver would move the selector to the next gear that he/she wanted, then when the time was right, depress and release the third pedal again. Quite different style of driving, but still no clutch pedal to depress/release when stopping or moving off. I suppose they could be said to be an earlier form of semi-automatic, with the driver's foot doing the work that electrics and pneumatics did with later semi-autos.

 

London Transport did have some manual gearbox buses at the time the Routemasters entered service, in the form of 84 GS class Guy Specials, used exclusively on country services, with a couple surviving until 1972 as staff buses.

[45156]

 

Earlier generations of London Transport buses in the RT and RF families used pre-selector gearboxes, where the driver selected the gear he wanted, then pressed the gear-change pedal (a third pedal that was not a clutch - they had fluid flywheels), which then engaged that gear. The driver would move the selector to the next gear that he/she wanted, then when the time was right, depress and release the third pedal again. Quite different style of driving, but still no clutch pedal to depress/release when stopping or moving off. I suppose they could be said to be an earlier form of semi-automatic, with the driver's foot doing the work that electrics and pneumatics did with later semi-autos.

 

 

Many years ago, more than I care to remember, I knew a guy with a preserved RT - and I was offered a chance to have a go, on private land of course, and he went through the preselector routine - preselect, operate, preselect, operate.  First to second, I remembered - second to third, I didn't preselect, and used the operate as a clutch - result was that the bus reacted as though an emergency stop had been done, and I had a steering wheel bruise for weeks afterwards - the owner wasn't too pleased, and I never got another go.

 

Robert - love your pics of your RMC - and if I'd been a rail passenger coming off to join that instead of the usual plethora of coaches that are used in most places, I'd have been pleased.  Like Rick (Gwiwer) I also travelled on these RMCs when they turned up on the routes from West Croydon Southwards - I recall that the sometimes went up Caterham Hill, which with the longer legged diff was quite interesting.  As it happens, I am a frequent visitor to Shrewsbury, so I look forward to seeing it some time coming down Dogpole.  The pic of the RMC just about to head that way on your website shows the vehicle off very well.

Regards

Stewart

Edited March 5, 2018 by 45156