For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[John M Upton]

Some operators took the Leyland National into stock in the earliest days, hated them and dispensed with them quite quickly, others built up large fleets including second hand examples from the former quick disposers and some operators made their own modifications to the design of which it is believed Northern General's adaptation to a early example led to the modifications that produced the vastly improved Phase II Mk1 (usually but not always identified by the later more squat roof pod over the earlier slightly lower and longer version).

 

The Leyland National never really took off in Scotland all that much, many of the SBG Group seemed to buy them more out of obligation than need as they tended to prefer their locally bodied Alexander Y types et-al whilst NBC operators again seemed obliged to buy them but some like Southern Vectis took a small batch and then got rid of them quickly whilst City of Oxford never had any at all, the only NBC operator not to have them.

 

There were still significant pockets of them in service into the early 2000's including even London where the Mk2's on the Red Arrow routes had been heavily rebuilt under the Greenway project and stayed put until ousted by the quite frankly disastrous bendy buses.

Edited September 11, 2017 by John M Upton

[runs as required]

Thanks for that overview of the development of the product - what of the short lived promise of the factory and jobs for West Cumbria?

Was it the usual doomed "Branch Plant"?

dh

[Dave47549]

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Edited October 4, 2021 by Dave47549
Removed pointless guff

[John M Upton]

Thanks for that overview of the development of the product - what of the short lived promise of the factory and jobs for West Cumbria?

Was it the usual doomed "Branch Plant"?

dh

 

The Workington factory never did reach its maximum designs construction capacity, someone had the Utopian vision that within a few years every single deck bus in the NBC and SBG fleets would be a standardised National but the individual operators with their own personal preferences had other ideas.  

 

Later the factory took over the construction of the TN series Leyland Titan from Park Royal when it was shut down (a model that was meant to be a double deck National but in the end was a flop outside of London, not helped by construction and delivery delays that were caused by the usual 1970's British Leyland problems with Unions who would walk out at the drop of a hat frequently) and subsequently went on to build the lack lustre replacement for the National, the Lynx as well as Olympians in both chassis and later full buses with the ECW design body when the latter's Lowestoft plant was shut down as well.

 

Once Leyland became part of the Volvo empire it was only a matter of time before the factory was closed, part of it is now used by Eddie Stobart, the other part is a Stagecoach Bus Garage.

Edited September 11, 2017 by John M Upton

[chrisf]

I found this one from a photo charter in June 2008.  It can't be too far from Oxford bus museum.

 

 

Chris

[John M Upton]

A regular sight for me many years ago around Bognor Regis was the local 'Fun Bus'.

Bognor Fun Bus LJF30F Bognor Regis 14/8/00 by John Upton, on Flickr

Still survives apparently!

[Merfyn Jones]

Llandudno' Great Orme also lay claim to the steepest bus route in Britain.  1:3½ and originally worked by a Saurer with sprag brakes IIRC.

 

Not Saurers, but Fodens, later replaced by Dennis Pax (truck chassis) and now the route is normally an Arriva Solo.

[Coppercap]

Part of an order for 51 Leyland Nationals originally destined for export to Venezuela (so I'm told), but ended up instead in Hounslow. LS11 is seen leaving Hounslow Bus Station/ Garage on Route 81 in May 1977, nine months after delivery.

 

5932932360_cd063bd70d_o.jpg

Oh yes, I remember these. I probably travelled on all of Hounslow's allocation (used to 'bus spot' but had recovered from that ailment by the time they were introduced...). Being garaged at Hounslow (AV) they were also used on the 82(?), 110, 111, 116 and 203. I think they mostly replaced the SMSs, which weren't all that reliable. When I moved west three years later, our local buses were much older, mostly Bristol REs of various types, (dated inside, but a lovely growling exhaust!), plus the occasional National (with horrid plastic seats!). We then often got Bristol VRs at busier times.

[Rugd1022]

[Gwiwer]

 City of Oxford never had any at all, the only NBC operator not to have them.

 

 

Correct.  City of Oxford was the only NCB operator to never have a Leyland National.  It's double-deck running mate the Bristol VRT also went to every NBC operator bar one - Midland Red in this case.

[Dave47549]

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Edited October 4, 2021 by Dave47549
Removed pointless guff

[John M Upton]

...and post privatization I believe Oxford did get a few Nationals after taking over someone but the details now elude me.

[RANGERS]

...and post privatization I believe Oxford did get a few Nationals after taking over someone but the details now elude me.

 

They came with the High Wycombe operation of Bee Line Bus Co, but by that stage Oxford - South Midland had been split once again, South Mids became Thames Transit and I don't know if they ever had Nationals on their Oxford operation, although they had them elsewhere. I guess that South Midlands may have been the only NBC company never to have Nationals.

[mark374]

the talk about operatours running nationals  in to 2000s,  reminded of one national i worked on 

 

CHH 210T  a Mkl short was used by Chase buses until they ceased running and bought by the WTHT on eBay 3 years later in 2010, and driven back to Workington,   

 

 

 

Lynx F251 JRM  this was one of only 4 delivered to Stagecoach cumberland,  and ended up as driver trainer in Sunderland,  and bought by the WTHT,  and driven back,   and was also on the local news, 

 

not a old bus,  but this one was intresting,   Ex Stagecoach Cumberland B10m K779 DAO,   it was last used by The Big Lemon company  and ran on used chip fat,   it is now painted in Yellow and Green (similiar to a blackpool tram)

 

CMS Cumberland VR 431,   this one was painted in Stagecoach beachball livery 

 

 

 

210 in workington  on a dark wet boxing day night on the last run of the boxing day buses

 

 

 

Mark

Edited September 12, 2017 by mark374

[laurenceb]

The last Bristol VRT built UTV 49 X was operated by Midland Fox (Midland Red East) for a while

[Dave47549]

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Edited October 4, 2021 by Dave47549
Removed pointless guff

[John M Upton]

Some of the Goodwood Revival Weekend vintage vehicles were still on view in Chichester Garage on Tuesday morning including this beauty:

Seaford & District 6447 (HAP 985) Chichester 12/9/17 by John Upton, on Flickr

 

And not quite so glamorous:

Stagecoach South 32501 (J501 GCD) Chichester 12/9/17 by John Upton, on Flickr

Sadly I can remember when this Dart was delivered brand new to Chichester for a management inspection and my camera failed at the crucial moment!  Haven't stopped swearing since....

[bingley hall]

A few more taken at Hounslow on 7 May 1977........missed the RFs on the 202 and 237 by three weeks!

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by bingley hall

[John M Upton]

Always did like the little LH's, the Dennis Dart of their day.

[Coppercap]

A few more taken at Hounslow on 7 May 1977........missed the RFs on the 202 and 237 by three weeks!

 

5945849023_3eec355560_o.jpg

15732834267_d5311b4d5a_o.jpg

5929834000_50e9984640_o.jpg

Brilliant! Waited at that stop in Kingsley Road many times for the 110 or 111 home to Heston. Alternative was the 232 from the garage (that's probably the DMS in the 116 bay...). I loved the RFs - the trip out to Chertsey was sometimes the start of a Saturday Red Rover with mates. One day in 1973 we got at far as Dartford, much to my mother's concern! Well, we wanted to get our money's worth, we were only 12! Still got those very tickets... Edited September 13, 2017 by Coppercap

[RANGERS]

Always did like the little LH's, the Dennis Dart of their day.

 

They weren't bad to drive, the Leyland engine ones were pretty nippy and once you got the feel for the steering, they could be thrown around like a go-kart, as could the passengers! The downside was a gearbox which took a lot of practice to get a smooth change, hindered by a clutch that could take the weight of both feet to release it.

 

The longer LHL coaches weren't so great, the steering set-up was the same as the short ones with a camber that made them much heavier than the LH/ LHS, hard work on school contracts round country roads. The additional weight of the coachwork and 51 passengers didn't do performance much good either, it was on a par with the contemporary Bedford YRT, neither were going to get anywhere in a hurry but the LHL didn't have the benefit of an easy gear change and pleasant steering of the Bedford, hardly surprising the YRT outsold the LHL by about 10 to 1.

[Gwiwer]

Always did like the little LH's, the Dennis Dart of their day.

 

Nah.  We used to say LH stood for Loud Horrible.  And the shorter ones were Loud Horrible S**tboxes.

 

Compared with a National they were a pain to drive and to board as a passenger.  Compared with an RF they were lumpy, bumpy and uncomfortable.  However compared with the SUS which they replaced on my "home" Penzance - Mousehole run they marginally easier to steer into that village.

[Unicorn1]

A few pics from the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch rally at New Romney on Sunday.

 

LT line up

 

 

Eastbourne Corperation 72, and RM8

 

 

Maidstone & District line up

 

 

A very enjoyable day, with plenty of bus rides to and from Dungeness.

 

Les

 

 

 

 

[Rugd1022]

[bingley hall]

A few pics from the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch rally at New Romney on Sunday.

 

LT line up

 

Line Up.jpg

 

Eastbourne Corperation 72, and RM8

 

BC & RM8.jpg

 

Maidstone & District line up

 

M&D line up.jpg

 

A very enjoyable day, with plenty of bus rides to and from Dungeness.

 

Les

 

A good line up., especially the M & D group. I went a couple of years ago and was a bit disappointed at the lack of variety, but that's just the way it is sometimes. I'm just jealous.