For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[tetsudofan]

Thats an ex East Kent AEC Regent V.

 

Tomorrow I'll be seeing my friend, the owner of East Kent NBC Regent in Sealink livery:

 

 

and will ask him if has any info on the (remains) of the vehicle at Norwich.

 

Today I was at the Walmer Bus Rally on the Sealink Regent and tomorrow I'll be at the Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch Light Railway Bus Rally again on the Sealink Regent so hopefully later will post some pictures here of both days.

 

Keith 

[royaloak]

And from that generation of vehicles which had the small steering wheel, Olympian-style and sometimes referred to as the "Olympian wheel", which many drivers loathed.  It was felt to be too small for the job requiring more effort than a larger wheel.  Which from my understanding of very basic physics would be the case all other things being equal.  Certainly when driving the Olympians with those wheels I felt like I had done two days-worth of work in one.  The smaller cross-section also didn't help with keeping a good grip when things (wheel, hands) got sweaty or greasy either.  

Heavy steering, pah try a Bristol VR 1 with no power steering, THAT is heavy, I passed my double deck test in one, within 10 minutes of starting the test I was sweating my 'bits' off.

 

One problem with the small wheel was it covered half the dials so you couldnt see your air gauges properly. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by royaloak

[Gwiwer]

No power steering?  Yes, I learned that way.  On Southdown Queen Mary PD3s.  You pushed them round every corner and you often had to push the wheel back afterwards.  Hard work.  Added to which the gearbox wasn't as user-friendly as it might have been.

 

I have driven Mk1 and Mk2 VRTs and know them to be a little heavy also.  One forgets just how much effort is taken out of steering by power assistance until it isn't there.  A very modest Mercedes 811D, hardly a heavyweight among buses, shed its power steering drive belt on me one day whilst outbound on one of the twisting Cornish routes from Penzance.  90 minutes later I had got it home, having completed the route, but with a surprising amount of sweat having been lost as the thing would not corner at all until both hands were applied to the same side of the wheel with all of my 14 stone weight behind them.

[JDW]

Heavy steering, pah try a Bristol VR 1 with no power steering, THAT is heavy, I passed my double deck test in one, within 10 minutes of starting the test I was sweating my 'bits' off.

 

One problem with the small wheel was it covered half the dials so you couldnt see your air gauges properly.

...so it was ahead of its time in that respect then, this feature is common on many buses now...

[royaloak]

...so it was ahead of its time in that respect then, this feature is common on many buses now...

Unfortunately you are correct.

[PhilJ W]

How did the old drivers get on? Crash gearboxes, open cabs, 5 cylinder Gardner's and as for instruments not even a speedo.

[runs as required]

As a child coming home from school I always admired those greatcoated drivers as they set out climbing up over the moors at dusk on winter afternoons on frozen slush in winter with more snow on the way.

dh

[mark374]

Couple of shots from yesterday of Mkll national Barrow corporation  CEO 720W  'Barrow 20'  

 

 

Barrow 20 on workington docks

 

I had my model collection on show  and couldnt resit this shot of my EFE Mkl next to the Mkll (hopefully oneday Barrow 20 will be lined up next to the Mkl owned by the Barrow transport group

 

 

 

Mark

[russ p]

There aren't many national 2s with roof pods

[RANGERS]

There aren't many national 2s with roof pods

 

More than you might think, I seem to remember it was about half of those built. Google it and the images show a variety of operators who had them, NBC, SBG, LT, PTE's, municipals and at least one independent.

[Gwiwer]

There aren't many national 2s with roof pods

Quite a few actually. Brighton Buses had all but the very last which then passed to Brighton Hove & District when the council company threw in the towel. Was there not effectively a 2B model with tge front bulge but no pod?

[John M Upton]

The podless format became the default model on the Mk2 in both lengths, the pod and its gubbins underneath became the optional version but was ordered by several NBC and other operators including London Transport who bought a big batch of short dual door Mk2's for the Red Arrow routes.

 

On the subject of the Brighton Mk2's, when formed by splitting out what was in effect the former BH&D operations from Southdown on privatisation in addition to two from Southdown's fleet (127 and 128) they also acquired eight brand new ones rather unfortunately registered with OAP registrations, 150 to 157:

Brighton & Hove Leyland National 150 (C450OAP) by John Upton, on Flickr

Brighton & Hove Leyland National II 155 (C455OAP) by John Upton, on Flickr

Brighton & Hove 157 (C457 OAP) Brighton 29/4/00 by John Upton, on Flickr

 

The first five of these were a diverted/cancelled order originally meant for Blackpool Transport so presumably picked up at a discount for the new Brighton & Hove fleet with a few more tacked on to make up the numbers.  157 (C457 OAP) was the penultimate one built, the last one being Halton's C49 OCM which is now preserved.

 

Brighton & Hove added the seven XFG-Y registered Mk2's from Brighton Blue Bus (Brighton Corporation as was) when they sold up, these being among the first to be built with Gardner engines from the factory.

Brighton Buses Leyland National II 30 (XFG30Y) by John Upton, on Flickr

 

Curiously Southdown preferred podded National's so much that when a batch of three former Western National podless Mk2's, FDV829 to 831V arrived at Worthing from Hampshire Bus, they put pods on them!!

Stagecoach Sussex Bus 128 (FDV831V) Bognor Regis Tesco 1/8/00 by John Upton, on Flickr

Two of them took up the vacated 127 and 128 fleetnumbers that had been left empty when two of the native examples went to Brighton & Hove along with the OAP's.

 

Whilst browsing around my Flickr collection I found a few other gems to throw in.  Apologies for the quality, some of these were taken on a late 1960's Kodak Instamatic....

Brighton & Hove Bristol VR 646 (AAP646T) by John Upton, on Flickr

Brighton & Hove Leyland National 60 (UFG60S) by John Upton, on Flickr

Brighton & Hove buses in Churchill Square by John Upton, on Flickr

[russ p]

The podless format became the default model on the Mk2 in both lengths, the pod and its gubbins underneath became the optional version but was ordered by several NBC and other operators including London Transport who bought a big batch of short dual door Mk2's for the Red Arrow routes.

 

On the subject of the Brighton Mk2's, when formed by splitting out what was in effect the former BH&D operations from Southdown on privatisation in addition to two from Southdown's fleet (127 and 128) they also acquired eight brand new ones rather unfortunately registered with OAP registrations, 150 to 157:

Brighton & Hove Leyland National 150 (C450OAP) by John Upton, on Flickr

Brighton & Hove Leyland National II 155 (C455OAP) by John Upton, on Flickr

Brighton & Hove 157 (C457 OAP) Brighton 29/4/00 by John Upton, on Flickr

 

The first five of these were a diverted/cancelled order originally meant for Blackpool Transport so presumably picked up at a discount for the new Brighton & Hove fleet with a few more tacked on to make up the numbers.  157 (C457 OAP) was the penultimate one built, the last one being Halton's C49 OCM which is now preserved.

 

Brighton & Hove added the seven XFG-Y registered Mk2's from Brighton Blue Bus (Brighton Corporation as was) when they sold up, these being among the first to be built with Gardner engines from the factory.

Brighton Buses Leyland National II 30 (XFG30Y) by John Upton, on Flickr

 

Curiously Southdown preferred podded National's so much that when a batch of three former Western National podless Mk2's, FDV829 to 831V arrived at Worthing from Hampshire Bus, they put pods on them!!

Stagecoach Sussex Bus 128 (FDV831V) Bognor Regis Tesco 1/8/00 by John Upton, on Flickr

Two of them took up the vacated 127 and 128 fleetnumbers that had been left empty when two of the native examples went to Brighton & Hove along with the OAP's.

 

Whilst browsing around my Flickr collection I found a few other gems to throw in.  Apologies for the quality, some of these were taken on a late 1960's Kodak Instamatic....

Brighton & Hove Bristol VR 646 (AAP646T) by John Upton, on Flickr

Brighton & Hove Leyland National 60 (UFG60S) by John Upton, on Flickr

Brighton & Hove buses in Churchill Square by John Upton, on Flickr

Excellent pictures, when I was a kid and saw my first national for some reason thought the engine was on the roof!

[John M Upton]

Some more from the (clapped out) Instamatic Archive:

Brighton Buses went shopping and mopped up some old second hand Nationals including this former Southdown example:

Brighton Buses Leyland National 33 (BCD814L) by John Upton, on Flickr

 

They also had Atlanteans as well:

Brighton Buses 4 (TYJ 4S) Churchill Square circa 1990 by John Upton, on Flickr

I don't think any of these have survived however.

 

Also the same East Lancs body on a smattering of Dennis Dominators:

Brighton Buses Dennis Dominator 16 (OAP16W) by John Upton, on Flickr

 

Curious to think even the Leyland Lynx, the not very successful successor to the National is all but extinct now:

Brighton Buses Leyland Lynx 46 (F546LUF) by John Upton, on Flickr

 

Meanwhile, back home in Chichester and Bognor:

Southdown Bristol VR 691 (EAP991V) by John Upton, on Flickr

Southdown Bristol VR 696 EAP996V Chichester by John Upton, on Flickr

Southdown Bristol VR 275 (JWV275W) Bognor Regis by John Upton, on Flickr

Southdown 97 (AYJ97T) by John Upton, on Flickr

Southdown 31 (PCD 77R) by John Upton, on Flickr

Southdown WYJ164S by John Upton, on Flickr

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Southdown 31 (PCD77R)

 

What's that doing on the 700???  There was a union instruction to its members at one stage, brought about after certain depot staff assigned "unsuitable" vehicles to the Brighton - Portsmouth limited-stop 700.  Introduced with Atlanteans those gave way to Bristol VRTs.  Loadings usually required double-deck operation at least for some part of each journey.  If an Atlantean was unavailable or broke down anything on hand was sent out.  More than one Queen Mary PD3 has covered a 700 working (on one occasion running Worthing - Portsmouth - Worthing on time) and at least one ex-Brighton Hove & District FLF was pressed into use.

 

The instruction stated that if the Atlantean was not available for any reason the only other vehicle members were to take out for a 700 was a Bristol VR.  Of necessity a very few Leyland Nationals did get used and there were at times odd workings on the 700 linked to other duties which were National-worked.

 

Coincidentally National 31 is parading on the very route the 700 replaced - the well-known Brighton to Southsea 31.  

[John M Upton]

Indeed, anything other than Bristol VR's and a Brighton & Hove Scania were extremely rare on the 700, 31 defintely should not have been there, it was not one of Chichester's native examples, I think it was a Worthing machine at the time which in itself is rare as the oddball PCD-R batch with the never explained registrations numbers that did not match their fleet numbers were in the main East Sussex machines until the Stagecoach era which was still yet to come when I took that picture, probably in a hurry!!

 

The Bristol VR domination of the route since the Atlanteans were ditched didn't end until the big Volvo's arrived:

Southdown 309 (F309 MYJ) Bognor Regis Circa 1990 by John Upton, on Flickr

[JDW]

Couple of shots from yesterday of Mkll national Barrow corporation  CEO 720W  'Barrow 20'  

 

20170909_123827.jpg

 

20170909_142639.jpg

Barrow 20 on workington docks

 

20170909_093440.jpg

I had my model collection on show  and couldnt resit this shot of my EFE Mkl next to the Mkll (hopefully oneday Barrow 20 will be lined up next to the Mkl owned by the Barrow transport group

 

 

 

Mark

 

Fascinating fact...

These buses were actually based on the successful Class 141 railbus design, built in the same factory, and Barrow Corporation even had them painted the same colours... Oh, no, wait, I might have that the wrong way around... 

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5059/5583143644_9c94e08382_b.jpg

[Gwiwer]

Class 141 was, literally, a railbus.  

[mark374]

Fascinating fact...

These buses were actually based on the successful Class 141 railbus design, built in the same factory, and Barrow Corporation even had them painted the same colours... Oh, no, wait, I might have that the wrong way around... 

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5059/5583143644_9c94e08382_b.jpg

 

I belive it is the other way,   The Mkll was built off the Mkl,   then Leyland built the LEV-01 railcar which had 2-3 other prototypes  before the 141 railbus,   all built at Workington  including the 153 & 155 railcars,    as for barrow corp,  im not to sure about them painted the same colours, 

 

 

Mark

[bingley hall]

Part of an order for 51 Leyland Nationals originally destined for export to Venezuela (so I'm told), but ended up instead in Hounslow. LS11 is seen leaving Hounslow Bus Station/ Garage on Route 81 in May 1977, nine months after delivery.

 

[Gwiwer]

Part of an order for 51 Leyland Nationals originally destined for export to Venezuela (so I'm told), but ended up instead in Hounslow. LS11 is seen leaving Hounslow Bus Station/ Garage on Route 81 in May 1977, nine months after delivery.

 

5932932360_cd063bd70d_o.jpg

 

Correct.  Sister to LS30 seen in post 445 and discussed in post 447 above

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/122692-for-those-interested-in-old-buses-and-coaches/?p=2842184

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/122692-for-those-interested-in-old-buses-and-coaches/?p=2842212

[JDW]

I belive it is the other way,   The Mkll was built off the Mkl,   then Leyland built the LEV-01 railcar which had 2-3 other prototypes  before the 141 railbus,   all built at Workington  including the 153 & 155 railcars,    as for barrow corp,  im not to sure about them painted the same colours, 

 

 

Mark

 

I was being sarcastic, but yes, for the benefit of those who didn't get the joke your potted history is indeed the correct way around!  I believe the blue used on the 141s when new was Barrow Corporation blue rather than BR blue, at least according to some sources...

Edited September 11, 2017 by JDW

[PhilJ W]

Riding a 1931 preserved trolleybus on the public highway.

EDIT. There is a link to the Museum website as well.

Edited September 11, 2017 by PhilJ W

[tamperman36]

I thought the official colour for the first of the 141s was Workington blue, which if I remember correctly one unit kept until the 141s were refurbed at which point it gained the then standard WYPE red and cream.

[runs as required]

I have to admit to being less than enthusiastic about the Leyland National family.

But I am intrigued by why the vehicle (except for the Pacer railbus relatives) was so shortlived.

I was in the UK at the start of the 1970s, the time the new Workington factory was being lauded as an architectural wonder. Moreover, the bus being Michelotti styled, the whole West Cumberland regeneration investment could not possibly fail..

Yet by the time I came back to work full time in Newcastle the United Automobile Services versions of the National were heartily disliked for their noise and fumes.

Some later the buses were replaced as our T&W PTE came and went and as for the last word in factory building, it seems to have disappeared without trace.

 

This Wikipaedia page for the Leyland National concentrates on bus details but hardly mentions the fate of the West Cumbria project as an employment generator in the isolated area.

 

dh