For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[Metr0Land]

Without wishing to put words in his mouth I think this is what olddudders is referring to (unless it was yet another shade of green!)

 

shades of green by Keith, on Flickr

Edited July 18, 2017 by Metr0Land

[Gwiwer]

The two RTs show the difference between LTE Country Area green (front vehicle) and LCBS green which was a brighter shade (on the rear vehicle) at Stevenage Bus Station.  That particular lighter shade would not have been generally used in the 1960s as LCBS wasn't in existence but one or two vehicles might have been experimentally painted in a lighter shade than the traditional Lincoln Green normally used at the time.  The LCBS "flying polo" logo confirms the date as very early 1970s, as the Stevenage town routes went over to AN operation in 1972/3 with just a trio of RTs surviving for peak-hours only two-vehicle route 303C.  

 

Or they might just have been fresh from repaint when everything else was "used" as the colour sometimes appeared to darken with exposure to daily conditions.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Gwiwer

[SRman]

Do I not recall some experimental lighter green LT vehicles in the early '60s? Certainly an RF or two, and at least one RT, I think.

 

There was an experiment on a few Green Line vehicles using a lighter base body colour and lighter relief lining in LT days. The upshot was that they used the lighter lining green for new repaints but reverted to the darker green body colour. I have a feeling that a few RFs were involved too, but don't quote me on that - I am at work and don't have access to my reference books right now, and my memory on this could very well be faulty.

[SRman]

Back again: Ian's Bus Stop site (http://www.countrybus.org/rf/RF3.htm) has the following information (direct quote), confirming that my memory wasn't entirely faulty after all:

"In 1960 two lighter shades of green made their appearance, on RFs from Reigate (RG) and High Wycombe (HE) on the 711, with black relief on the wheels. It didn't catch on generally, but the lighter relief colour gradually spread through the class. Coaches with the light green were:

RF 33, 36,41, 42, 51, 52, 55, 58, 69, 71, 72, 86, 126, 271, 309, 313."

[Gwiwer]

And Green Line coaches most definitely did work local bus routes from RG in the early morning before going onto the 711.  Including, it would seem, a 414 which was observed by a Youngerdudders.

[Metr0Land]

And Green Line coaches most definitely did work local bus routes from RG in the early morning before going onto the 711.  Including, it would seem, a 414 which was observed by a Youngerdudders.

 

Indeed it became almost de rigeur in the mid/late 70's.  Many garages would use the vehicle allocated to the last GreenLine departure of the morning on a local bus in the morning peak, thus saving a vehicle.  In High Wycombe one morning 363 was worked by the National that would be on the 711 at the end of the morning runout.

[Gwiwer]

Typically the last Green Line departure from the "home garage" would be between 8 - 9am, after which the vehicles from the "away" garage at the other end started arriving and formed return services.  RG ran out Green Line RF coaches and even the occasional LNB/SNC Leyland National (which I refuse to call a coach) in the last days of the 711.  They also used RC coaches from the 727 allocation the same way.  Nearby Dorking often used a Green Line RF on an early 425 or 439 short to Strood Green before it headed off towards Luton or St. Albans.  Guildford (GF) ran RMC Routemaster coaches out to Burpham (436) and Ripley (415) in the early morning when demand was absolutely minimal before they took up duties on the 715 to Hertford for the day.  They were replaced with RP one-man coaches which also ran the early 415 and 436 trips.

 

The pattern was repeated across most garages which operated both local bus and Green Line coach duties.  Some garages were not involved in Green Line provision and uniquely Romford (RE) was a Green Line only garage with no local bus work.  

[Oldddudders]

Back again: Ian's Bus Stop site (http://www.countrybus.org/rf/RF3.htm) has the following information (direct quote), confirming that my memory wasn't entirely faulty after all.

Thankyou. And nor was mine. Continuing suggestions that I had somehow confused the '60s and '70s even after I'd made it plain that we moved house on 21.5.1965 and I was no longer aware of buses to the same extent seemed to fall on deaf ears. Informative in understanding how people think, perhaps.

[PhilJ W]

I lived for many years (1964-1984) very close to Romford Greenline garage (RE), and it became apparent from about the mid/late 70's that London Country wanted to get rid of the East London Greenline services. The 721 operated in turn RT/RCL/RP and finally SNC. The service was always popular until they introduced the SNC which as Gwiwer says cannot in any way be described as a coach with their slippery plastic upholstered seats, even the RT's with their standard bus seats were far better. They had the desired effect from London Country's point of view as they drove customers away and gave them an excuse to cease the service.

[Gwiwer]

In fairness to Romford crews and LCBS the rot had set in much earlier than the Leyland Nationals arriving.  Chronic traffic congestion and the surge in private motoring in the 1960s did the damage.

 

The 722 Aldgate - Upminster had been withdrawn already allowing the cascade of RCL coaches to Grays where they took over the 370 - the only "green" bus route to serve Romford but never worked from that end.  Others went south, once the RPs arrived, to Reigate, Crawley and Dorking where they became popular performers on the lengthy 405 and 414 plus peak-hour 405B.

 

The remaining Romford duties on the 721 were suffering from worsening traffic congestion and late running though with a 15-minute headway it wasn't always possible to tell which trip one was actually on.  Then came the Leyland Nationals and the rot became terminal.  The headway was cut to 30 minutes.  Cancellations became rife due to staff and vehicle shortages.  Short-distance passengers settled for the much more frequent 25 and 86 red buses along the Romford Road which charged cheaper fares.  Eastern National were offering a 10 - 15 minute headway Romford - Brentwood which had already seen off red bus 287 and became the replacement for the 721 as well.  The closure of RE was inevitable.  The remaining 724 duties, operated by RP-class Reliances to the end, were transferred to Harlow and that route was then truncated there, ceasing to serve Romford altogether.  

 

It was thus no longer possible to travel right around London on "green" buses and Green Line coaches.  There was a gap between Romford and Brentwood and later between Epping, Ongar and Brentwood as well.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Gwiwer

[bingley hall]

I lived for many years (1964-1984) very close to Romford Greenline garage (RE), and it became apparent from about the mid/late 70's that London Country wanted to get rid of the East London Greenline services. The 721 operated in turn RT/RCL/RP and finally SNC. The service was always popular until they introduced the SNC which as Gwiwer says cannot in any way be described as a coach with their slippery plastic upholstered seats, even the RT's with their standard bus seats were far better. They had the desired effect from London Country's point of view as they drove customers away and gave them an excuse to cease the service.

 

.....and LNCs. EDIT - a bit from Ian's Bus Stop about their short lived life on these routes http://www.countrybus.org/National/LN.htm

 

LNC 42 on Route 721 at Aldgate on 16 July 1973. Only 4 months old at the time, it would only spend another 2 months in Green Line service before being reclassified for bus duties.

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by bingley hall

[DerekEm8]

As stated earlier we are quite fortunate in the Manchester Area to Have Boyle Street Museum and the Annual Rally at Heaton Park.

 

Here are some pics (part 1) of the Heaton Park Rally on 2nd September 2012

 

Ashton-u-Lyne 44

 

Blackburn 8

 

Bradford 220

 

Butterfield

 

Crosville DFG157

 

Crosville DVG521

 

Devon General 537

 

Economic YPT796

 

GM 81

 

GM1152

 

GM 3001

 

GM 8697

 

GM 8763

 

Great Yarmouth 85

 

Keighley 60

 

Keighley - West Yorkshire KDG26

Edited July 23, 2017 by DerekEm8

[runs as required]

That Keighley - West Yorkshire Bristol seems to be a puzzling pre/postwar hybrid

It looks like a pre-war ECW body refurbed postwar with sliding quarter lights. But on the face of it the Bristol K chassis looks postwar.

Generally it was the body that wore out before the rugged Bristol/Gardner combination.

However some operators e.g. North Western,fitted the lower post war tapered Bristol rad when they refurbished pre-war single deck chassis to carry postwar Burlingham bodies, yet kept the high radiator of their pre-war ECW/Ks when refurbishing chassis ready to receive new Willowbrook bodies.

 

What's the explanation please?

dh

[PhilJ W]

That Keighley - West Yorkshire Bristol seems to be a puzzling pre/postwar hybrid

It looks like a pre-war ECW body refurbed postwar with sliding quarter lights. But on the face of it the Bristol K chassis looks postwar.

Generally it was the body that wore out before the rugged Bristol/Gardner combination.

However some operators e.g. North Western,fitted the lower post war tapered Bristol rad when they refurbished pre-war single deck chassis to carry postwar Burlingham bodies, yet kept the high radiator of their pre-war ECW/Ks when refurbishing chassis ready to receive new Willowbrook bodies.

 

What's the explanation please?

dh

The K-WY Bristol was registered in 1938 and as built would have had the higher 'shield' radiator. The body is by Roe, not ECW and it was re-bodied in 1950.

[DerekEm8]

North Western also did some Willowbrook rebuilds of pre-war Bristols

 

North Western 432 Boyle Street

 

North Western 432 Boyle Street

 

 

 

 

[RANGERS]

That Keighley - West Yorkshire Bristol seems to be a puzzling pre/postwar hybridIt looks like a pre-war ECW body refurbed postwar with sliding quarter lights. But on the face of it the Bristol K chassis looks postwar.Generally it was the body that wore out before the rugged Bristol/Gardner combination.However some operators e.g. North Western,fitted the lower post war tapered Bristol rad when they refurbished pre-war single deck chassis to carry postwar Burlingham bodies, yet kept the high radiator of their pre-war ECW/Ks when refurbishing chassis ready to receive new Willowbrook bodies.What's the explanation please?dh

Quite probably down to the coachbuilder being able to accommodate the old radiator or not. Replacing it would give it the appearance of a newer vehicle but came at a cost which for a mere service bus, was usually unacceptable to the bean counters, particularly as it rarely offered any benefit. If some newer body styles couldn't be readily adapted to incorporate the older style, it justified replacement.

 

With coaches, rebodies usually offered a full front so this either covered the existing radiator, or if it interfered with the styling, would have to be replaced. The height of the rad was usually the dictating factor.

[Legend]

Loved Great Yarmouth no 85. I remember being in the resort in 1973 , we used to take the bus out to Gorleston. The buses were completely different for me coming from SBG country. Was that the standard livery? I don't remember then being quite as ornate as that . Do I also remember correctly that neighbouring Lowestoft also had them in a brown and cream livery?

 

It was such a disappointment to visit again in 1985 to find the old corporation blue and cream buses had gone

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Do I also remember correctly that neighbouring Lowestoft also had them in a brown and cream livery?

Yes you do.

 

Lowestoft Council buses briefly assumed the name of Waveney District under local government reorganisation before packing up altogether.  Eastern Counties became the only operator in the area of any consequence.

[96701]

Found these photos of buses in York.

 

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15071127.9_photos_of_York_s_buses_in_years_gone_by/

 

I'm not a fan myself, just thought it would put some of the old dears in this thread into some form of context.

[great central]

Loved Great Yarmouth no 85. I remember being in the resort in 1973 , we used to take the bus out to Gorleston. The buses were completely different for me coming from SBG country. Was that the standard livery? I don't remember then being quite as ornate as that . Do I also remember correctly that neighbouring Lowestoft also had them in a brown and cream livery?

 

It was such a disappointment to visit again in 1985 to find the old corporation blue and cream buses had gone

There's one of the current fleet painted in a similar livery, search for Great Yarmouth heritage bus should find a picture

[Legend]

There's one of the current fleet painted in a similar livery, search for Great Yarmouth heritage bus should find a picture

Thanks just found it . As a child I went to Great Yarmouth annually for my summer hols . I think 4 years in a row 65-68. Then again in. 73 the blue bus fleet was always something smart . In 73 I think the single decker were just replacing some of the old bus fleet. I've looked up the heritage bus and the one for Lowestoft. Very nice. Thanks for the info

[RANGERS]

Loved Great Yarmouth no 85. I remember being in the resort in 1973 , we used to take the bus out to Gorleston. The buses were completely different for me coming from SBG country. Was that the standard livery? I don't remember then being quite as ornate as that . Do I also remember correctly that neighbouring Lowestoft also had them in a brown and cream livery?

It was such a disappointment to visit again in 1985 to find the old corporation blue and cream buses had gone

That scheme was a later one, the original was much simpler with blue below the windows an the roof, cream around the windows.

 

Two of the Lowestoft buses went to Yarmouth at the time of the ECOC takeover, the only flat screen ones in the Yarmouth fleet I think.

 

Yarmouth got their money's worth from their Swifts, they must have been the last remaining in service with an original owner.

[John M Upton]

It's been let out of the garage!

Stagecoach South 19945 (CD 7045) Chichester 27/7/17 by John Upton, on Flickr

 

Unfortunately not under its own power though:

Stagecoach South 97006 (STW 356W) and 19945 (CD 7045) Chichester 27/7/17 by John Upton, on Flickr

Stagecoach South 97006 (STW 356W) and 19945 (CD 7045) Chichester 27/7/17 by John Upton, on Flickr

[Rugd1022]

Staines West...

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

Staines West...

 

 

 

Yes it is but to bus people it was always "Staines Moor Lane"