For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[tetsudofan]

As promised have just sorted out some pictures taken at yesterday's Classic Bus Running Day held at Sevenoaks. Had a good journey up on the Regent making use of the A20, M20 and A25 to reach Sevenoaks. To start the pictures one of the Regent parked amongst some other buses awaiting the call to duty:

 

 

As I was only a passenger on the Regent I was able to spend the day riding some of the other buses present. As Sevenoaks does not possess a Starbucks decided to catch the 10:30am rte.402 to Tonbridge using London Transport Country Area XF3, a type of bus I had not been on before here seen at Tonbridge Station prior to its return to Sevenoaks:

 

 

After partaking of an early lunch I returned to Sevenoaks on the 12:05 rte.403 using London Transport Country Area RT3148 seen here parked-up at Sevenoaks upon its return at 12:32:

 

 

A quick transfer was then made to the 12:35 Rte.705 to Westerham using London Transport Greenline RF271 seen here at Sevenoaks before taking up its duty:

 

 

After returning to Sevenoaks on RF271 at 13:27 decided to take the 13:55 rte.402 to Borough Green using London Country RT604 which had taken part in every Sevenoaks Running Day from the first event:

 

 

After returning to Sevenoaks at 14:56 decided that it was time to ride the two special guest buses which were running tours from Sevenoaks. Liked this idea using only London Transport/London Country buses on the old London Transport routes and running the guests on tours. Details of these runs will follow.

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PhilJ W]

As promised have just sorted out some pictures taken at yesterday's Classic Bus Running Day held at Sevenoaks. Had a good journey up on the Regent making use of the A20, M20 and A25 to reach Sevenoaks. To start the pictures one of the Regent parked amongst some other buses awaiting the call to duty:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-01.jpg

 

As I was only a passenger on the Regent I was able to spend the day riding some of the other buses present. As Sevenoaks does not possess a Starbucks decided to catch the 10:30am rte.402 to Tonbridge using London Transport Country Area XF3, a type of bus I had not been on before here seen at Tonbridge Station prior to its return to Sevenoaks:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-02.jpg

 

After partaking of an early lunch I returned to Sevenoaks on the 12:05 rte.403 using London Transport Country Area RT3148 seen here parked-up at Sevenoaks upon its return at 12:32:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-03.jpg

 

A quick transfer was then made to the 12:35 Rte.705 to Westerham using London Transport Greenline RF271 seen here at Sevenoaks before taking up its duty:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-04.jpg

 

After returning to Sevenoaks on RF271 at 13:27 decided to take the 13:55 rte.402 to Borough Green using London Country RT604 which had taken part in every Sevenoaks Running Day from the first event:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-05.jpg

 

After returning to Sevenoaks at 14:56 decided that it was time to ride the two special guest buses which were running tours from Sevenoaks. Liked this idea using only London Transport/London Country buses on the old London Transport routes and running the guests on tours. Details of these runs will follow.

 

Keith

I thought that the entire XF class had been exported to Hong Kong. Either I'm mistaken or XF3 has been re-imported and restored.

[John M Upton]

Was it that three XF's went to the Country section from the 'red' central London section in exchange for three something elses and the remaining 47(?) XF's in the red area were the ones exported?

 

I could be wrong though but it would explain how one of the XF's remained in the UK after the rest were prematurely binned overseas.

 

Scrub all that!!  The XF's are Daimler Fleetlines, there were eight of them all allocated to the country area (XF1 and XF3 survive), the Hong Kong exported ones were the very similar in appearance XA class which were on Leyland Atlantean chassis.

Edited July 17, 2017 by John M Upton

[BrushVeteran]

 

 

While across the road......

 

6311560632_9c94cb700c_o.jpg

1966 built AEC Regent V with MCCW bodywork - GAT817D. In service with Tynemouth - formerly with East Yorkshire Buses.

These are AEC Renowns with Park Royal bodies.

[John M Upton]

Many years ago I found this ex BOAC Atlantean with Alexander bodywork in its second life parked down the side of St Pancras Station long before it became the modern rebuilt mess that it is today:

Ex BOAC LYF317D St Pancras 11/3/01 by John Upton, on Flickr

[Gwiwer]

Was it that three XF's went to the Country section from the 'red' central London section in exchange for three something elses and the remaining 47(?) XF's in the red area were the ones exported?

 

I could be wrong though but it would explain how one of the XF's remained in the UK after the rest were prematurely binned overseas.

 

Scrub all that!!  The XF's are Daimler Fleetlines, there were eight of them all allocated to the country area (XF1 and XF3 survive), the Hong Kong exported ones were the very similar in appearance XA class which were on Leyland Atlantean chassis.

 

Near-identical bodies except that the XF class (8 Fleetlines) were always Country Area buses and as delivered had a gate to close off the upper deck.  When new double-deck one-man operation (as it was then called) was not permitted so they were used as crew buses at busy times, generally on the 424 and 438/A/C though with associated workings elsewhere, and as one-man "single deckers" at quieter times again usually on the 424 though sometimes on the 435.

 

The XA class were 50 Atlanteans delivered new to the Central Area as red buses.  After spells on the 76 from Tottenham they went to Croydon for the 234 group and Peckham for the

P3.  Three passed to London Country at Stevenage where they became the blue and silver "Blue Arrow" fleet operating a short-lived pre-bookable service between residential and industrial areas which did not carry a route number.  They were exchanged for three green RML long Routemasters, a type never operated by Stevenage, these coming from the Godstone allocation when the 409 / 411 service was reduced.  

 

The Blue Arrow was not a success and the vehicles were painted in standard LCBS green / yellow and drafted to East Grinstead to work alongside the XF fleet.  The remaining 47 were taken out of use by LT and, as LCBS had effectively replaced these experimental buses by then with the standard AN type Atlantean (and eleven AF Fleetlines at Godstone intended for but diverted by NBC from Western Welsh) the trio was reunited with the main batch which was mostly (entirely?) exported to Hong Kong.

 

The XF class soldiered on usually on the 438 as stand-ins to cover LCBS' chronic 1970s vehicle shortages with the final examples being withdrawn in the late 1970s.  Double-deck OMO had been permitted for some time before then and the stairway gates therefore removed.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Gwiwer

[John M Upton]

XF Class managed to last with London Country until 1981, all the XA's were packed off wholesale to Hong Kong in 1973 and as far as I am aware none survive.

 

This page was quite informative:

http://www.countrybus.org/XAXF/XF.htm

[bingley hall]

These are AEC Renowns with Park Royal bodies.

 

Thanks. No idea where I got the incorrect information from?

[Joseph_Pestell]

As promised have just sorted out some pictures taken at yesterday's Classic Bus Running Day held at Sevenoaks. Had a good journey up on the Regent making use of the A20, M20 and A25 to reach Sevenoaks. To start the pictures one of the Regent parked amongst some other buses awaiting the call to duty:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-01.jpg

 

As I was only a passenger on the Regent I was able to spend the day riding some of the other buses present. As Sevenoaks does not possess a Starbucks decided to catch the 10:30am rte.402 to Tonbridge using London Transport Country Area XF3, a type of bus I had not been on before here seen at Tonbridge Station prior to its return to Sevenoaks:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-02.jpg

 

After partaking of an early lunch I returned to Sevenoaks on the 12:05 rte.403 using London Transport Country Area RT3148 seen here parked-up at Sevenoaks upon its return at 12:32:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-03.jpg

 

A quick transfer was then made to the 12:35 Rte.705 to Westerham using London Transport Greenline RF271 seen here at Sevenoaks before taking up its duty:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-04.jpg

 

After returning to Sevenoaks on RF271 at 13:27 decided to take the 13:55 rte.402 to Borough Green using London Country RT604 which had taken part in every Sevenoaks Running Day from the first event:

 

SevenoaksBusRally2017-05.jpg

 

After returning to Sevenoaks at 14:56 decided that it was time to ride the two special guest buses which were running tours from Sevenoaks. Liked this idea using only London Transport/London Country buses on the old London Transport routes and running the guests on tours. Details of these runs will follow.

 

Keith

I suppose that, in the interests of historical completeness, someone should preserve an RT in NBC green. Looks all wrong to me though.

[Gwiwer]

XF Class managed to last with London Country until 1981, all the XA's were packed off wholesale to Hong Kong in 1973 and as far as I am aware none survive.

 

This page was quite informative:

http://www.countrybus.org/XAXF/XF.htm

 

It seems I too have some mental confusion between the XA and XF classes.  That link correctly states that it was three LCBS XF Fleetlines which went to Stevenage and not thee ex-LT red XA Atlanteans.  The memory plays tricks.  

[Gwiwer]

I suppose that, in the interests of historical completeness, someone should preserve an RT in NBC green. Looks all wrong to me though.

 

It jars with me although RT604 was one of a handful which received a light overhaul and repaint into the later NBC corporate style (square white-backed logo in blue and red rather than the white logo applied direct to the livery) for ongoing service at Chelsham.  A the time LCBS was experiencing acute vehicle shortages and while the RT fleet should have been withdrawn entirely there were insufficient serviceable Routemasters available for the service.  Those allocated (RMC class in he main with some RCL) arrived very tired and careworn from other garages and spares were virtually unobtainable until something was scrapped.  Hence the survival of four RT types of which 604 became the oldest bus in year-round NBC service.  The only older one was the Bristol K-type open-topper on the Isle of Wight which only came out in peak summer and even then not every day as it was effectively a spare.  RT604 is thus fully justified in wearing NBC leaf green in preservation however wrong it might appear; there are numerous other RTs in preservation wearing LT country area or LCBS green.

[SRman]

If memory serves me correctly, there were three XAs in the country area, which had to be brought back to join the central XAs so that Hong Kong could buy the whole batch of 50. I can't remember the exact back story to this though.

[Gwiwer]

If memory serves me correctly, there were three XAs in the country area, which had to be brought back to join the central XAs so that Hong Kong could buy the whole batch of 50. I can't remember the exact back story to this though.

 

That's correct Jeff but I had confused those three with the three XFs which went to Stevenage.  It was the  three XAs which were swapped with three Godstone RMLs which became "red" vehicles long before the remaining 97 of the country fleet were sold to LTE - some for spares or scrap and some as runners.

[Oldddudders]

Do I not recall some experimental lighter green LT vehicles in the early '60s? Certainly an RF or two, and at least one RT, I think.

[40F]

Do I not recall some experimental lighter green LT vehicles in the early '60s? Certainly an RF or two, and at least one RT, I think.

 

Surely the light green examples were National Bus Company ones 

[John M Upton]

Three XA's went to East Grinstead I think to replace the three XF's that went to Stevenage.  In turn the three XA's at EG were replaced by a batch of three specifically purchased AN68 Roe Atlanteans, AN121 to AN123.

[SRman]

Thanks, John. That jogs my memory now. 

 

[Gwiwer]

Surely the light green examples were National Bus Company ones 

 

Not in the early 60s as per Ian's post.  Either that was a typo for "early 70s" (and at which time LCBS had begun to apply NBC liveries) or there may indeed have been some repainted in the 60s for some reason.  I doubt there is any link with the "lighter green" of Ian's memory but Northfleet buses, especially their Routemasters, which were used on the 480, 487 and 488, were often in a shocking state account they ran all day past numerous cement works and collected associated airborne particles.  That left a grimy pale grey deposit over the green which might then have appeared lighter than standard t some eyes. No amount of washing seemed able to remove the cement dust.

[John M Upton]

There also seems to be some doubt as to exactly what shade NBC green actually was as different panels faded at different rates and some patch repairs would be done with mixed together whatever paint was either lying around or could be bought out of the petty cash from Woolworths.

 

I have a picture somewhere of a Southdown Bristol VR in NBC green which on its rear end is exhibiting at least five different shades of green...

[45156]

Not in the early 60s as per Ian's post.  Either that was a typo for "early 70s" (and at which time LCBS had begun to apply NBC liveries) or there may indeed have been some repainted in the 60s for some reason.  I doubt there is any link with the "lighter green" of Ian's memory but Northfleet buses, especially their Routemasters, which were used on the 480, 487 and 488, were often in a shocking state account they ran all day past numerous cement works and collected associated airborne particles.  That left a grimy pale grey deposit over the green which might then have appeared lighter than standard t some eyes. No amount of washing seemed able to remove the cement dust.

ISTR that Chelsham had some NBC RTs which I saw at West Croydon (403 probably) when travelling through on the 725.

[Gwiwer]

There also seems to be some doubt as to exactly what shade NBC green actually was as different panels faded at different rates and some patch repairs would be done with mixed together whatever paint was either lying around or could be bought out of the petty cash from Woolworths.

 

I have a picture somewhere of a Southdown Bristol VR in NBC green which on its rear end is exhibiting at least five different shades of green...

 

LCBS is known to have applied a much lighter shade - as though it had been mixed with its own Canary Yellow - than other NBC companies.  This showed up when their vehicles were alongside those from Maidstone & District or Southdown, Eastern National or United Counties.  New deliveries however were in the "standard" shade meaning that the BL, BN, BT and Leyland National family, plus Atlanteans from AN121 onwards, were noticeably darker than vehicles which Reigate or Garston had repainted.

 

As regards "patchy" vehicles I too recall some Southdown ones in multiple shades of green.  How had the "Southdown Sparkle" faded when a Bristol RESL (of all things - Southdown never chose to order Bristols until there was next to no choice) was seen in service wearing at least nine shades of green on its damaged and dented panels.

[Gwiwer]

ISTR that Chelsham had some NBC RTs which I saw at West Croydon (403 probably) when travelling through on the 725.

Of which the aforesaid RT604 was one, and RT1018 another.  Two mare whose stock numbers escape my memory were also so painted but RT604 (being the oldest) became the celebrity and the last to run in service for that operator.  It never got the send-off it deserved because it suffered an engine failure in service and never ran again until its preservation days.

[tetsudofan]

Last lot of pictures taken on Sunday at the Sevenoaks Running Day. As mentioned earlier there were two "special guest" buses attending, my friend's East Kent AEC Regent and a Jersey Motor Transport Leyland Titan.

 

The AEC Regent did three tours along the Darenth Valley passing through Eynsford which has special memories for me - went down there one Friday evening many moons ago to celebrate the completion of our GCE "A" Levels and I got horribly drunk on Directors Bitter and spent the night sleeping in a field before returning home on the Saturday morning. Have not been able to touch Bitter since then....

 

Anyway, back to the Regent which was only restored a couple of years. When I heard the bus had been repainted in Sealink livery I was a bit disappointed as I'm a great fan of the traditional East Kent maroon and cream livery but, having now seen the bus, I think the Sealink livery looks great. The restoration has been done to a high standard as can be seen from a picture of the lower saloon:

 

 

and the upper saloon:

 

 

..... and before the experts start pointing out that the wrong type of opening windows have been used in the restoration, the owner is aware of this this.

 

The last journey of the day was done on the JMT Leyland Titan which is amazing bit of kit:

 

 

If I remember correctly we were told that the bus was built as a lowbridge trolleybus demonstrator around 1932 but was rebuilt later as a bus using a 1929 petrol-engine Leyland Titan chassis which it still has today. Couple of views of the upstairs and downstairs saloons:

 

 

 

Couple of pics for those interested in technical things:

 

 

 

......and a final pic of the bus posing for pictures before its return to Sevenoaks at the end of a most enjoyable day:

 

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

[Oldddudders]

 Either that was a typo for "early 70s" (and at which time LCBS had begun to apply NBC liveries) or there may indeed have been some repainted in the 60s for some reason.  

 

No, this was long before the Country Area buses of LT were separated from 55 Broadway (1970?). I lived by the middle stop of Route 414. On Saturday mornings there was an interesting early working, terminating at Dorking, which must have left Reigate about 6.15, I suppose, stopping outside my house (request stop, but very often it stopped), and it was as if Reigate Garage (RG) turned out all sorts of odd vehicles for it. The route was entirely RTs, but this would often have an RF, sometimes a GreenLine, and it was these I recall in odd shades of green, as well as an RT or two. RT613 was about then in GreenLine livery - was that one in lighter green? Maybe. I do wonder whether it was used as a sort of running-in turn for vehicles just received back from Aldenham. I think Reigate was some sort of centre for Country Area matters south of the river. 

 

We moved from there in May 1965, so any time in the previous 3-4 years seems the likely period. 

[Gwiwer]

RG was definitely "Southern HQ" so far as the LT Country Area went.  GR was the Northern HQ.  RG became LCBS' head office of course after the split from LT with GR continuing to fulfil the requirements to the north.

 

I'm not too sure what might have been on that early 414 that Ian remembers but as he says RG did take vehicles back from Aldenham prior to them being returned to their home location, and it also would have been home to anything unusual such as demonstrators.  It was one of numerous Country Area garages which featured some odd duties early in the morning and an RF or two on an otherwise all-crew RT route prior to that RF going on to work a "normal" single-deck duty later in the day was nothing new.  

 

It worked the other way too.  in the 1970s RG19 duty was a well-known RT and later RCL crew-worked turn which covered school trips on the 406 and a 414 dupe but had a highly unlikely lunchtime short run from Reigate to Woodhatch (Angel pub) on the OMO 424 (normally XF-operated) at about the time head office staff might have taken a quick liquid lunch!  It then worked a single trip on the local 430 (which by that time was otherwise all AEC Merlins) between Redhill and Reigate in the afternoon.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Gwiwer