Cheltenham - Stratford Upon Avon Train Frequency

[D854_Tiger]

How frequent were trains over this route when it was still open.

 

The decline seems to have set in quite early with the ending of local services and through expresses as early as 1962.

 

But even before then, consultation of old timetables shows only a handful of West Midland - South Wales expresses were routed that way (the Kidderminster route being preferred) and typically just a couple of West of England expresses, outside of summer Saturdays.

 

Much is made of this being the route of the Cornishman but that and one other service were the only West of England trains most weekdays.

 

That then leaves the outstanding question of freight trains so there I am, thanks to my time machine, standing on Toddington station how often could I have expected to see a train also how often, once the route became freight only during the 1970s.

 

I believe towards the end it could even be several days between trains, which begs the question of how those remaining signal boxes were staffed.

 

The short answer to that, of course, was that most were left switched but the Evesham Road level crossing would have had to be staffed presumably for very little traffic.

[johnlambert]

There's a great collection of working timetables at the following web site, which might give you an indication atleast as far as 1963.

 

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=572

 

No connection to the site other than having used it for research.

[andy stroud]

I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that after the signalling at Cheltenham came under the control of Gloucester power box, the junction for this route at Lansdown, Cheltenham was worked by a ground frame. Also I think some passenger trains, possibly diversions, called at what is the current Cheltenham station and then reversed back out of the station and then took the route  to Stratford Upon Avon. Just something that I found interesting.

 

Andy

[TheSignalEngineer]

I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that after the signalling at Cheltenham came under the control of Gloucester power box, the junction for this route at Lansdown, Cheltenham was worked by a ground frame. Also I think some passenger trains, possibly diversions, called at what is the current Cheltenham station and then reversed back out of the station and then took the route  to Stratford Upon Avon. Just something that I found interesting.

 

Andy

 

To quote from Modern Railways, January 1970:-

 

"At Cheltenham, Lansdown Junction signalbox is still in position to control the junction towards the Honeybourne line, which although nominally closed continues in use as a diversionary route while engineering works are in progress on the Midland route. When trains are diverted via Honeybourne, Landsown (Junction) is manned and released in the same manner as a ground frame from Gloucester panel"

 

You are correct about trains stopping at Lansdown station then reversing to get back behind the junction signal to go onto the Honeybourne line, did it myself on 30 November 1969, the last official diversions.

Edited April 28, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[Fat Controller]

How frequent were trains over this route when it was still open.

 

The decline seems to have set in quite early with the ending of local services and through expresses as early as 1962.

 

But even before then, consultation of old timetables shows only a handful of West Midland - South Wales expresses were routed that way (the Kidderminster route being preferred) and typically just a couple of West of England expresses, outside of summer Saturdays.

 

Much is made of this being the route of the Cornishman but that and one other service were the only West of England trains most weekdays.

 

That then leaves the outstanding question of freight trains so there I am, thanks to my time machine, standing on Toddington station how often could I have expected to see a train also how often, once the route became freight only during the 1970s.

 

I believe towards the end it could even be several days between trains, which begs the question of how those remaining signal boxes were staffed.

 

The short answer to that, of course, was that most were left switched but the Evesham Road level crossing would have had to be staffed presumably for very little traffic.

Freight traffic would have fallen enormously once the iron-ore trains to South Wales stopped running; I'm not sure exactly when this might have been, but wonder if it might be coincident with the opening of the deep-water terminal at Port Talbot in 1970.

In the late 1960s- early 1970s, I passed the junction at Cheltenham several times on Saturdays (MYSTEX from Swansea), and saw freights standing on the Stratford line, which suggests that either I was very lucky or that freights were still relatively frequent.

I did travel over the line at least once, in the early 1960s, when we took a Cardiff- Birmingham train.

Is there any shortcut to find particular routes on that list that John Lambert linked to?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Honeybourne to Cheltenham was on the Gloucester District. You have to dig a bit but I think it was on a table called Worcester, Kingham, Stratford and Cheltenham or something similar. It will probably be in the 'A' file if Michael has split it because of the size.

Edited April 28, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[Rugd1022]

I can't give anything definite on the frequency of freight traffic, but between '73 and '76 I visited the line with a mate and his Dad and we got lucky on several occasions, noting 20s, 37s, 45s, 46s, 47s, a few Hymeks and the odd Western on various workings. I have a collection of b&w prints from the Kidderminster Photographic Archive taken in the same period showing some of these workings, including the odd railtour and race day specials using the line. Depending on their length, some of these race day specials went empty stock from Cheltenham Racecourse to Toddington to run round and birth before heading south again later in the day, while some carried on to Honeybourne and headed towards Worcester for the same purpose. Specific memories which come to mind are seeing D7011 with a single WR toad brake van just south of Honeybourne making quite a racket as it accelerated southwards, and D7029 on a short rake of condemned Mk1 stock further south near Winchcombe. I also remember us 'chasing' D1052 on a railtour in the Spring of '75, stopping off to see it at Cheltenham Racecourse and beating it to Stratford-on-Avon. One of my workmates started at Saltley as a secondman the same year and remembers working a Washwood Heath - Severn Tunnel Jcn mixed freight down the line with an ex-Tyseley driver with a 45, he said once they'd got south of Stratford it was like having their own private railway. The return trip was light engine and they stopped for a while at Toddington to have a mooch about in the weeds before heading home to Saltley.

 

Sadly the line closed after a Toton - Severn Tunnel Jct freight derailed close to Winchcombe goods shed in August '76, it caused a lot of damage, but lifting of the track didn't start until 1979.

[Andy Kirkham]

Freight traffic would have fallen enormously once the iron-ore trains to South Wales stopped running; I'm not sure exactly when this might have been, but wonder if it might be coincident with the opening of the deep-water terminal at Port Talbot in 1970.

In the late 1960s- early 1970s, I passed the junction at Cheltenham several times on Saturdays (MYSTEX from Swansea), and saw freights standing on the Stratford line, which suggests that either I was very lucky or that freights were still relatively frequent.

I did travel over the line at least once, in the early 1960s, when we took a Cardiff- Birmingham train.

Is there any shortcut to find particular routes on that list that John Lambert linked to?

 

The ore came from Banbury and from 1960 was routed over the Stratford & Midland Junction via Fenny Compton. I think the SMJ closed in 1965 and the Banbury ironstone mines ceased in 1967. Wikipedia mentions that before 1960 the ore went  via Leamington, but I don't know if it reverted to this route in the final couple of years.

 

I have a cousin who lived in one of the ex-GWR houses at Winchcombe station in the early 1970's. I only ever remember one train passing while we were there, but I expect most of our visits would have been at the weekend so not representative of weekday traffic.

 

IN 1972 I was fortunate to travel the route in a 9-car DMU on a Sunday afternoon Bristol-Stratford excursion. The fare was 60p.

 

I believe there was a vestigial passenger service until about 1968. A single-car unit running a couple of times a day, but there were no intermediate stations by then.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Andy Kirkham

[Andy Kirkham]

It always seems odd to me that the GWR never had  platforms at Landsdown station, even though its lines ran right next to it. Were there ever any plans for them, I wonder?

[johnlambert]

I believe there was a vestigial passenger service until about 1968. A single-car unit running a couple of times a day, but there were no intermediate stations by then.

I think you're right, a Leamington to Gloucester service as I recall. I have seen a picture of single-car unit M55003 in blue with small yellow panels on the route at that time. Class 122 number 55003 is now preserved on the Gloucester and Warwickshire railway, so it's still running over part of the line.

[D854_Tiger]

I think you're right, a Leamington to Gloucester service as I recall. I have seen a picture of single-car unit M55003 in blue with small yellow panels on the route at that time. Class 122 number 55003 is now preserved on the Gloucester and Warwickshire railway, so it's still running over part of the line.

 

The local service was withdrawn in 1960 and the intermediate stations were also closed.

 

Daily through expresses still ran via the route until 1962, including the Cornishman.

 

After 1962, all trains to South Wales and the West of England were concentrated upon New St, and the Bromsgrove route, however the two DMU workings each way, you mention, still provided a notional service to Cheltenham and were retained until 1966. Some Worcester, Evesham workings through to Snow Hill, and Long Marston station, also survived until 1966.

 

Additional summer Saturday expresses to the West of England continued to run from Wolverhampton LL and Snow Hill, rather then New St, via the Honeybourne line, also until 1966. 

 

There were at least three Paington trains (one overnight and one from Moor Street), Minehead, Ilfacombe, Newquay and Penzance were also served.

 

I believe one or two of these summer Saturday extras even originated from Birkenhead, though maybe for Bornemouth or Margate rather than the West of England.

 

Ben Ashworths photo albums cover many of these latter services extensively, pictures around Stanway viaduct, of a Britannia hauled Ilfracombe train and in the final year the same train with a class 47.

[Andy Kirkham]

LTC Rolt, whose home was near the line wrote in his autobigraphy:

 

"When the line was built between 1900 and 1906 the contractors, Messrs Walter Scott and Middleton, made two fatal mistakes; they failed to ensure effective drainage of the cuttings and they did not remove from them at formation level the sticky clay that is found all along the base of the north Cotswold escarpment which the railway follows, Water-logged clay makes a chronically unstable base for permanent way and despite constant re-ballasting and tamping there had been endless trouble with sleepers 'pumping' or working, a slurry of clay and water spurting up as train passed over them. It was also as a result of this treacherous clay that there had been much trouble with cutting slopes slipping. Now at last [in 1956] the Western Region decided to take the bull by the horns and put an end to these troubles by laying improved drains, by building retaining walls where necessary, and by the costly process known as 'track blanketing' which consists of removing the offending clay and replacing it by more suitable material. As a result of all this work, as Mark Smith, the then chief civil engineer, admitted to me, more money per mile was spent on the Cheltenham-Honeybourne line than on any other section of the Western Region over the period that had elapsed since the last war"

 

A shame that so much expense was incurred on a line that was to lose much of its purpose within a few years. Rolt also attributes the early withdrawal of local passenger services to the loss of custom during the disruption caused by the engineering work.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Andy Kirkham

['CHARD]

LTC Rolt, whose home was near the line wrote in his autobigraphy:

 

"When the line was built between 1900 and 1906 the contractors, Messrs Walter Scott and Middleton, made two fatal mistakes; they failed to ensure effective drainage of the cuttings and they did not remove from them at formation level the sticky clay that is found all along the base of the north Cotswold escarpment which the railway follows, Water-logged clay makes a chronically unstable base for permanent way and despite constant re-ballasting and tamping there had been endless trouble with sleepers 'pumping' or working, a slurry of clay and water spurting up as train passed over them. It was also as a result of this treacherous clay that there had been much trouble with cutting slopes slipping. Now at last [in 1956] the Western Region decided to take the bull by the horns and put an end to these troubles by laying improved drains, by building retaining walls where necessary, and by the costly process known as 'track blanketing' which consists of removing the offending clay and replacing it by more suitable material. As a result of all this work, as Mark Smith, the then chief civil engineer, admitted to me, more money per mile was spent on the Cheltenham-Honeybourne line than on any other section of the Western Region over the period that had elapsed since the last war"

 

A shame that so much expense was incurred on a line that was to lose much of its purpose within a few years. Rolt also attributes the early withdrawal of local passenger services to the loss of custom during the disruption caused by the engineering work.

 

That is a fascinating insight, Andy.  I confess that I have always been curious about the somewhat unusual traffic patterns on the route.  Built as a secondary main line it did connect a few average sized towns including Stratford and Cheltenham, obviously handled diversionary traffic but to lose stoppers pre-Beeching was not really the norm on this type of railway, considering the size of the smaller towns like Broadway.  So your last point is very telling indeed.  I hadn't previously been aware of its importance as a trunk route for minerals.  Interesting contrasts and parallels with other secondary main lines that didn't survive as freight only through routes with double track.  Quite curious really.

[figworthy]

It always seems odd to me that the GWR never had  platforms at Landsdown station, even though its lines ran right next to it. Were there ever any plans for them, I wonder?

 

Could it have happened ?  I can see why it might be useful from a passengers perspective.

 

Lansdown was Midland (later LMS), so unless it was going to become a joint station, why would they accept GWR trains there ?  GWR had Malvern Road station a quarter of  a mile or so away, so they already had a station close by.

 

Adrian

[TheSignalEngineer]

It always seems odd to me that the GWR never had  platforms at Landsdown station, even though its lines ran right next to it. Were there ever any plans for them, I wonder?

 

Before Malvern Road the GWR already had the terminus at St James, far more convenient for the town than Lansdown.

 

The site of the GWR lines adjacent to Lansdown was quite restricted as there was a retaining wall to the east of the track which was I think built during the Cheltenham - Gloucester Quadrupling when both the Midland and GWR tracks were realigned.

 

This photo was taken from Lansdown Road bridge in November 1969. The original signal box was almost directly below where I was standing. A second box was built closer to the station sometime before 1923. the final box was behind me to the south of the bridge. The Midland had a small yard adjacent to the station, the platform having been extended across the old connection. The distance on the GWR line from the fouling point of the original junction to Queens Road bridge in the background was only about 250 yards. Malvern Road station was about 500 yards beyond Queens Road.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

LTC Rolt, whose home was near the line wrote in his autobigraphy:

 

"When the line was built between 1900 and 1906 the contractors, Messrs Walter Scott and Middleton, made two fatal mistakes; they failed to ensure effective drainage of the cuttings and they did not remove from them at formation level the sticky clay that is found all along the base of the north Cotswold escarpment which the railway follows, Water-logged clay makes a chronically unstable base for permanent way and despite constant re-ballasting and tamping there had been endless trouble with sleepers 'pumping' or working, a slurry of clay and water spurting up as train passed over them. It was also as a result of this treacherous clay that there had been much trouble with cutting slopes slipping. Now at last [in 1956] the Western Region decided to take the bull by the horns and put an end to these troubles by laying improved drains, by building retaining walls where necessary, and by the costly process known as 'track blanketing' which consists of removing the offending clay and replacing it by more suitable material. As a result of all this work, as Mark Smith, the then chief civil engineer, admitted to me, more money per mile was spent on the Cheltenham-Honeybourne line than on any other section of the Western Region over the period that had elapsed since the last war"

 

A shame that so much expense was incurred on a line that was to lose much of its purpose within a few years. Rolt also attributes the early withdrawal of local passenger services to the loss of custom during the disruption caused by the engineering work.

It begs the question as to whether the line should ever have been built. It was a relative late-comer, only opening around 1910. The GWR must have thought it was worthwhile to try to get a shorter route from the West Midlands to the South West in an attempt to win traffic from the Midland route. They had just opened the North Warwickshire line between Tyseley and Bearley Junction giving a better route to Stratford-upon Avon but that in itself was probably hard to justify. It was said that the only reason that the GWR took it on when the original North Warwickshire project failed was that the Great Central had designs on taking over along with buying the financially-challenged SMJ line to give it a through route from the West Midlands to London and the South-East.

[mow]

Some information on Broadway - http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/broadway/index.shtml

[Andy Kirkham]

It begs the question as to whether the line should ever have been built. It was a relative late-comer, only opening around 1910. The GWR must have thought it was worthwhile to try to get a shorter route from the West Midlands to the South West in an attempt to win traffic from the Midland route. They had just opened the North Warwickshire line between Tyseley and Bearley Junction giving a better route to Stratford-upon Avon but that in itself was probably hard to justify. It was said that the only reason that the GWR took it on when the original North Warwickshire project failed was that the Great Central had designs on taking over along with buying the financially-challenged SMJ line to give it a through route from the West Midlands to London and the South-East.

Indeed, the GWR seems not to have made the most of the line. Did the conditions of their running powers over the Midland to Yate restrict their rights to operate a full competing Bristol-Birmingham service?

Edited April 29, 2017 by Andy Kirkham

[DCB]

The Cheltenham Honeybourne section of line did suffer from being a late comer, built to prevent other railway building such as the Midland / MSWJR Aschurch - Winchcombe -Andoversford line as much as for any strategic purpose.  

It suffered from the Midlands parallel Birmingham Cheltenham route being one of the fastest bits of the LMS with many speeds in the high 90s recorded along the long straight through Ashchurch and Swindon Village something the GWRs twisting corkscrew through the Cotswold Foothills could not possibly equal.

In practice it seemed to replace the GWRs awkward Over Junction-Ledbury Tunnel - Malvern route from Gloucester to Birmingham for freight with trains turning left at Honeybourne to access the north west of Birmingham via Worcester.   This avoided the Snow Hill tunnel bottle neck with traffic principally for the Midland at Saltley being routed through Stratford on Avon and Bordesley Junction.   With iron ore traffic going via the SMjR most Honeybourne line traffic avoided Stratford on Avon entirely, leaving Stratford as effectively a terminus for Birmingham area suburban services with little through traffic.

The line was used for excursion and extra traffic in the early 1960s,  My parents lied to me that it was disused/ dieselised when I wanted to see it as a 9 year old in 1965.

The 1969 picture is interesting, prior to 1957 the LMS platforms were much shorter and were not anything like as close to the GW line,  The GW sort of jammed Malvern Road station into a cutting and despite being considerably closer to the town centre was still too far to walk, only St James Teminus of Cheltenham's 6 stations was anything like convenient for the town and that was a long way from the fashionable Promemade and town centre, the Midland and GW High street stations were technically on the high street but in reality about half a mile from the town.

The Stratford line did provide a good GWR route for traffic from the Midlands to South Wales and seen in that light it makes sense, but passenger traffic was light and the Cornishman was really only a bit of showmanship operated over a longer slower route than the midland it only made sense by serving GW stations by connections at Wolverhampton and Snow Hill which could be served by one train rather than two portions from Snow Hill and Wolverhampton combining at say Stourbridge Junction or Worcester and running on the Midland line south of Worcester.

 

The proximity of High Street halt to St James Station and the need for Auto trains to reverse in Malvern Road station made St James to Honeybourne locals farcical, lord knows how they coped when they had a 94XX instead of an Auto engine, but they should have been popular with Winchcombe residents if the line had actually gone to Winchcombe as promised (and as proposed by the MSWJR)  but Winchcombe Station was at Gretton a mile of so away.  Genius, they built a tunnel especially and still didn't get to Winchcombe.   

 

The upside is the GWR have preserved it, the downside they have over extended it the wrong way and instead of connecting to BR near the racecourse for lucrative race specials have extended to Broadway so coach tours can do a one way trip over the line instead of a round trip.

Little changes.

[Rugd1022]

The problem now at the Cheltenham end is that their is limited access / clearance between the retaining wall and the new building which has been erected in the vee of the old junction. Doesn't hurt to dream though...

[figworthy]

The problem now at the Cheltenham end is that their is limited access / clearance between the retaining wall and the new building which has been erected in the vee of the old junction. Doesn't hurt to dream though...

 

I suspect that it is someone dreaming out loud, but I have heard suggestions (but I can't remember where) of making a new connection on the north side of Cheltenham rather than trying to reopen the route through the town.

 

Adrian

[Zomboid]

They've a better chance of connecting at Honeybourne than Cheltenham.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I suspect that it is someone dreaming out loud, but I have heard suggestions (but I can't remember where) of making a new connection on the north side of Cheltenham rather than trying to reopen the route through the town.

 

Adrian

I don't think it would be too difficult in civil engineering terms to put a link from the GWR at Racecourse Station to the level crossing on Swindon Lane as long as the fields are not being developed for housing or have an unfriendly owner. It would be a bit of an S bend about a mile long but not a significant difference in level.

 

Getting a junction with the NR line would probably be a bigger problem than building the link.

[caradoc]

They've a better chance of connecting at Honeybourne than Cheltenham.

 

Indeed, in fact provision for the GWR was made at Honeybourne when the Cotswold main line was redoubled.

[Rugd1022]

Just found this in the depths of my hard drive - photo by Tim Curr, no precise date but it's the last northbound shuttle service approaching Toddington. Today the track layout is slightly different, but the siding / loop to the right of the DMU is where the race specials were birthed when empty before returing to Cheltenham...

 

 

It would certainly be very nice to see a connection to the national network laid in at the Cheltenham end but the cost of doing so would probably never be recovered.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Rugd1022