S7 scratch building

[ian@stenochs]

8 minutes ago, airnimal said:

Perhaps in should have worked out all these things before stating out on this journey but I find if I am making something complicated I would never attempt to model it. I think it's better to overcome problems when they arrive than be put off building something fearing failure. 

 

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly Mike.  It is better to get started and work through problems as they arise rather than wait until you have all the T’s crossed and the I’s dotted!  If you did then I doubt anything would be built especially those ancient but interesting prototypes for which most of the information is incomplete or missing.

 

Ian.

[airnimal]

Eureka !  One problem solved. I thought I had an old etch of a brake rack that was over etched making the holes to large. Could I use it as a drilling jig ? 

I had to file it down on one side to fit in the space on the frame. To support the middle of the frame I cut a piece of dowel between the frame before I clamped it with a couple of clips. 

Then with the drill turned up to a higher speed and with a small amout of cutting oil I was able to drill the necessary holes. Turning it over the second side was also completed although I got this slightly higher at one end. I think I can live with this small imperfection. 

 

We are told that we get older we have to exercise both our bodies and brains to save us from dementia and working out problems like this as well as cycling 30 miles yesterday certainly fulfills this. 

My wife does allsorts of crosswords and puzzles and ever morning we do Wordel together. 

 

[Worsdell forever]

On 17/08/2024 at 22:56, airnimal said:

I had a day out today at Shipley at the  expoEM show. Although I have never had any success with 4mm myself I still like to see good modelling. I enjoyed the layouts with Eastwood and High House Colliery particularly pleasing.  I bought a couple of items from the trade and i had a chat with several demonstrators. 

 

You should have said hello! Always good to talk wagons! 

[airnimal]

Sorry but I only stayed a short time and everytime I went past you were busy taking to a small crowd. I enjoyed your small layout because it is the sort I would like to make myself.  I also don't like butting in in front of people because I think it is rude to do so. I was at an exhibition several years ago and one well known modeller push me out of the way while I was in conversation with a exhibitor which I found to be quite unpleasant which I never forgot about. Being a very mellow character I let it go when I should have spoken up. 

 

Edited August 19 by airnimal
Poor spelling

[airnimal]

I would rather work in plastic but I didn't think these frames would be strong enough so metal it is. I have managed to finish one to a reasonable level with the other cut out ready to complete the other 3. I suppose I should make the others tomorrow rather start the wagon itself. I am still working on the problems about adopting my own parts to overcome the huge hole in the middle of the wagon. 

[airnimal]

I haven't done a great amount of work to day because I have been on grandad duties. One of the grandsons had a birthday today so we were taken for a meal in a very pleasant country pub. 

Failure to attend any grandchildren birthday would be punishable by foul deeds administered by my good lady. I know which side my bread is buttered on and I hate to see burning models if you know what i mean. 

 

But after a very enjoyable day i have done a small amount of work on this glass wagon. I have the supporting pieces to add to both sides but as a test piece it is looking promising.  I just need to build the same again for the other side. The drawing in the wagon book has only side and end elevation without a plan view. But going on the NRM website about J.P.Richard's models there is a photograph of the very wagon. Now I know you shouldn't make models from models but  J.P.R 

was there to photograph and measure the real thing and is known to be very accurate in his research. 

When I come to building the wagon with is problems regarding using my own W-irons, if it doesn't workout I can always use this framework to model the smaller glass wagon to Dia 39. 

[Poggy1165]

Wow, that is impressive! I have sometimes fancied a GCR glass wagon (although, fortunately, I don't model the St Helens branch were several would be needed) but I could never even imagine how that framework could be modelled.

 

You're right. It has to be metal. Plastic, or even 3D printing, simply would not last.

[airnimal]

Brian,  I think modelling more than one would entail having an etch made of this framework because having cut this one out I don't wish to do another. Having got this far I still have the side bracing pieces at the sides to make and add, that is without all the srew adjusting clamps and holders to make and fit. 

[airnimal]

I have added the side bracing pieces to complete the basic framework.  The clamps and screws are next probably made from 12 BA screws. The drawing had these side pieces going at an angle rather than in line with the other framework but the photograph of J.P.Richards model has them in line. So I have followed JPR model for the reasons outline above. Once I finished the framework I will turn my attention to the longer wheelbase Dia 42.

[airnimal]

My best friend came around yesterday to bring me my train tickets to Stafford as well as the my ticket to GOG show. He said he brought them just in case he falls of the perch before then. He's 81 with a dark sense of humour. I was showing him this latest wagon I'm building and he thinks I am crackers, he may be right. 

A small amount done this morning.  I have only do one of these yet because I have to deal with issues regarding the house sale. Several photographs to show that they work. 

There are a couple of men at the door with white coats on.....................

[airnimal]

I thought the end of the handle on the screw adjuster was too large so I replaced it with a small one. I think it was the right decision. With any luck I might be able go start on the Dia 42 tonight.  

[Western Star]

Oh go on... please tell us how you made the Tommy bar with a ball(?) end.

 

Rgds, Graham

Edited August 22 by Western Star

[airnimal]

Graham, nothing clever I'm afraid.  The ball isn't really a ball more of an end cap.

The screw is just a 12 BA with a nut soldered on and dressed with a file before a hole is drilled through with a drill measuring 18.5 thou. I dont know the number equivalent because I measure all my small drills and label them accordingly using vernier calipers. 

The wire for the tommy bar is .6mm nickel which is filed down slightly at the end before soldering it in a piece of small bore .9.5mm brass tube. A very small amount is then sawn off and mounted in my mini drill and filed to the required shape. The holed drilled previously was opened out using a small broach to take the tommy bar. The other end of the tommy bar was placed in the screw and the other end was tickled with a diamond wheel to leave a very small burr on the end which prevents it falling out. This burr is so small it is virtually impossible to see but it does the trick.

[Western Star]

Thank you Mike, an excellent model.

 

Rgds, Graham

[airnimal]

A start has been made on the longer Dia 42 glass wagon. I realise now that the bottom bracket will have to be replaced with a longer version that extends over the full length of the hole in the floor. 

[airnimal]

I have cut the basic body out but I am struggling to get the planks in the correct orientation to the well. I have had to make a small compromise over the length of the well. The plank widths are 7" wide which doesn't marry up to where the well starts and ends if full planks are used. I am not sure this is the solution and it doesn't sit comfortably on my shoulders.  I don't like like being out with measurements so it's something I will have to ponder on. There is still time for it to all go in the bin. 

[Caley Jim]

Are you sure they were all the same width of plank? Might there have been a slightly narrower (or wider) one?

 

Jim

[airnimal]

Jim, not sure about different planks sizes. I don't have a plan view and the drawings In the wagon book are not totally clear. But I have come up with a solution which seems to work with a little bit of fudging.  I made a start on a replacement by cutting the well the correct size and then cutting the plank lines after. Thinking about it,  I did what I have done when tiling the bathroom and kitchen by starting in the middle and working outwards from the end of the well then going back and doing the middle portion. By adding a thou in this middle portion on each plank I was able to adjust the planks so they fitted in the space so all the planks lined up. This worked out with no noticeable difference.  

 

But having cracked the problem I have decided to abandon the long version and use the frames to make a smaller one. A couple of reasons are if I do ever build this layout once we move to a smaller house, shorter wagons would be more useful than longer ones. 

So I am going to finish off the frames with a few bits more like the pads on the ends of the screws. I will add some chains as well along with fixing holes to bolt them down to the wagon floor.

[airnimal]

Having decided to go with the smaller wagon I have finally got around to putting some paint these frames. After thoroughly cleaning and then dunking in Carr's metal black I sprayed them with Halford's matt black. Then when I was putting the screw clamps I found a weak spot in my soldering and one of the plates came loose. Words were muttered under my breath !

I then had to completely remove all the paint and resolder the offending plate. It was surprising how hard the paint was to remove. I left the screw adjusters in the metal black finish and just polished up the handles a small amout rather than paint them. Fixing the frames is going to be fun because of the small contact area for any glue. I have drilled 4 holes in each angle iron on the bottom rail and will pin them through the floor with lace pins but I don't think they will be very strong. I think the solution will be to make a small packing case load which will have a larger contact area. 

[Simond]

I did wonder about securing the frames, Mike, but a packing case (full of glass :) ) would make perfect sense.

 

lovely as ever

best

Simon

Edited August 26 by Simond

[airnimal]

Simond, I was unsure about just fixing the frames in place with just 4 lace pins. With all the care in the world something like these frames sticking up from this wagon is in a prime position to get damaged.  I would like to be able to have it loaded but also to run empty as well.

So I decided to remove all the paint and solder a couple extensions to base of the diagonal pieces to give some extra surface to glue them on with epoxy resin. This coupled  with the lace pins should give it a better chance on remaining undamaged. While I had the chance I soldered some small rings in the top holes to attach the chains and screw adjusters. 

When I decided to abandon the longer wagon I looked in the wagon book at this smaller Dia 39 

and realised I should have looked at this first because it has a better photograph and drawing than the larger wagon. I missed lots of details the first time round which now becomes a lot clearer.  I took the opportunity to drill the missing hole at the top of the frames but I am not going to add all the rivets.  

I am struggling to keep all the balls in the air at once again just now with the house move as well as planning a significant  birthday surprise for my better half in November. Our children still brings both myself and my wife things to fix and mend even though they left home years ago. 

[airnimal]

I have decided not to paint the framework but just to dunk it in Carrs's metal black which has come out a lovely shade of used metal. I have added a few touches of rust mainly wiped on and then wiped off leaving a slightly weathered look. I have also changed the heavy chain and the fixing method to one nearer to scale prepositions. Trying to fix the chain using a ring at the top was causing me endless hassle so I came up with another solution.  Using very fine nylon fishing line i was able to thread it through the chain into the hole in the frame before looping it over itself and pulling into a tight knot. Taking my solding iron I was able to melt the line as close to the knot leaving very little showing which was then dabbed with a black pen to leave very little evidence to the naked eye. I have now used Aralidite to stick the frame onto the wagon with the lace pins as a back up. At first I thought i had made a big mistake because the Aradite took about 4 hours to go off. I was so used to using quick drying epoxy which goes after a few minutes I was beginning to panic. 

I have been making a packing crate in case I need it which is being painted at present. I will add more chains but I am going to leave the wagon as it is at present until after the Stafford show because I want to get some pressfix transfers from the HMRS society stand. The wagon has some extra ironwork on the body when it was converted to a glass wagon which I will add once I get the tranfers.  

[airnimal]

I have now painted my wooden packing case ( not very well ) and placed it on the wagon which is held in the frame by the working screws adjusters. I did wonder if I should buy some real wood for the case but thought it may clash with the painted wooden floor.  Would the contrast with the natural finish and my attempts to portray real wood be to strong. 

[Worsdell forever]

That looks spot on, the problem with real wood for something so visible is getting wood with a fine enough grain. painted plastic looks the part. Looks like it's been delivering glass for a good while.

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

If I have a criticism, which frankly, given the quality of your work compared with anything I could do, would be somewhat unfair, it is that the packaging and packing pieces are probably too weathered.  I imagine these were non-returnable and would be in new wood with relatively little weathering.

 

I do however agree that using real wood would be difficult to be convincing.

 

Overall I would now leave well alone.  As ever, your work is fantastic and leaves me only hoping to be able to emulate it.

Edited August 29 by Andy Hayter