Comet N2 Chassis now...

[micked]

An impulsive wagon kit purchase at the recent St Neots exhibition seems to be nudging me back into the hobby, so please bear in mind that this kit even thought it may be quite a straightforward build for most RMWEB members, for me has been quite an adventure as well as hopefully an important milestone.

 

Despite not being the kit I bought at the show, the one I chose to start with was the Cambrian Steel-ended 12 Ton Van with Corrugated Ends. With excitement and great self-discipline, I carefully read the instruction a couple of times just to make myself reasonably confident that I wasn’t going to make some terrible beginner’s mistake along the way (Some hope!), and then proceeded to build a wagon.

 

I won’t bore you with a blow-by-blow account, but will mention a few points that came up. Firstly, I quickly realised that Bill Bedford’s handrail jig would be a great help in making decent doorhandles and handrails. I promptly ordered one from Eileen’s Emporium and low and behold it worked a treat - a thoroughly recommended piece of simple, but ingenious piece of wagon-building kit.

 

Secondly I had read a good reviews of Lanarkshire’s white metal buffers. In retrospect I should have fitted them as well. The plastic ones supplied with the kit are fine, but very delicate, so as soon as I finished the kit I placed an order for some white metal buffers to fit at a later date. 

 

All-in-all the wagon went together very well, and makes a an attractive freely running model of the type of rolling stock that could reasonably be seen on most pre and post-nationalisation lines.

 

 

 

Here’s the obligatory pic:

 

Amazing what the camera makes obvious. How did I manage to miss the paint from that buffer stock? As far as the roof goes, that’s only the first coat, so the gaps there can be forgiven for the moment.

 

That's it for now. I've got a Parkside Palvan up next which I'm really looking forward to. I'm taking things quite slowly and carefully at the moment, but I've got my eye on a couple of etched kits that I'd like to have a go at one day.

 

All the best

 

Mick

Edited December 9, 2017 by micked

[Nile]

Welcome to the world of kit building, that's a fine first effort.

 

WARNING !

 

This could become addictive, and those Cambrian are so reasonably priced.

 

Keep up the good work and you'll be prolific before you know it.

[cheesysmith]

You have fallen into the dark side. Welcome to the world of wagon building. There must be a recognised medical addiction for wagon kits. wait until you start mixing bits from different kits to make up variations, then you will find you end up with half finished kits awaiting parts or warmer weather to get the sprays out. Then you have the fun of weathering and rust.

 

Trust me, it's fun, but there is no escape.

 

Paul Bartlett wagon web site is a must.

[holywell junction]

That looks really good. I too am a bit of a newcomer and have had a go at some of the Cambrian models, in fact 4 Catfish wagons, thoroughly recommend them. First three were great, last one was not set at right angles, the wheels weren't level and it was all wobbly and fell of the track! Took my eye off the ball there. I tried to straighten the offending sole bars by softening with a hair dryer......NEVER DO THIS! None of this is Cambrian's fault, all down to me I'm afraid....you live and learn! Currently building a shark brake van from Cambrian, so far, so good, no wobbles! Yet to put transfers on all this lot, I've bought them but yet to get around to it as I haven't decided which numbers to use.

 

Weighting the wagons is the next thing so that they have some substance....any ideas out there?

 

Have fun!

[Western Star]

And there was me thinking "Cambrian Railways" and "more pre-grouping"...

 

Never mind, the story is worth reading.

[Spitfire2865]

For some Cambrian kits, it is a wise choice to get some compensated w iron units. Sadly, some of their W iron moldings are very slightly off and when two are put together the offset is doubled.  I often find with Cambrians if I want to use the kit as standard I need to be very careful with paper spacers to ensure the wheels are level.  

[Skinnylinny]

And there was me thinking "Cambrian Railways" and "more pre-grouping"...

 

Never mind, the story is worth reading.

 

Though, of course, Cambrian kits *do* produce a fair number of pre-grouping prototypes too, as long as you want either PO wagons (RCH 1908, as opposed to the ubiquitous RTR 1927 wagons produced by Hornby, Bachmann etc), or LBSCR, LSWR or SECR, which suits me just fine! (edit: They also have an MR wagon or two, and a couple of Cambrian wagons!)

Edited April 24, 2017 by Skinnylinny

[micked]

You have fallen into the dark side...

 

...Paul Bartlett wagon web site is a must.

 

 

Thank you everyone for those encouraging replies. It really is appreciated.

 

Talk of 'the dark side' and 'addiction' duly noted.

 

Yes, I bought a couple of Paul Bartlett's pics a few days ago to help with my next wagon (a Parkside Palvan). What a great site!

 

It would be nice to include a pre-grouping wagon to my expanding fleet (numbering a grand total of one at the moment). Any suggestions as to pre-grouping wagons that made it to the late fifties, and are available as kits? 

 

Modelling continues, and with another bumper bank holiday weekend on the horizon may even double my rolling stock numbers in a few days time.

 

All the best

 

Mick

[57xx]

You've done a nice job on what are sometimes not the easiest of kits to put together as Trevor has mentioned. Sounds like you sussed most of the little tricks already with the BB handrail jig and opting for Lanarkshire buffers.

 

There are a few wagon aficionados on here and several threads to get some good inspiration from, here's a few for starters;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51212-little-didcot/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37002-adams-em-workbench-signal-box-sundries/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/3646-p4-finney-28xx-currently/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86132-niles-kitbuilding-bench-gnr-cattle-wagons

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113035-more-pre-grouping-wagons-in-4mm-north-western-round-up/

 

And of course my own workbench linked below

 

 

 

[micked]

You've done a nice job on what are sometimes not the easiest of kits to put together as Trevor has mentioned. Sounds like you sussed most of the little tricks already with the BB handrail jig and opting for Lanarkshire buffers.

 

There are a few wagon aficionados on here and several threads to get some good inspiration from, here's a few for starters...

 

 

 

 

Thanks 57xx. Of course, it's the collective wisdom of RMWeb, that's been helping me pick up those tricks you mention. In that spirit I'll devour those links you've provided.

[Dunsignalling]

That looks really good. I too am a bit of a newcomer and have had a go at some of the Cambrian models, in fact 4 Catfish wagons, thoroughly recommend them. First three were great, last one was not set at right angles, the wheels weren't level and it was all wobbly and fell of the track! Took my eye off the ball there. I tried to straighten the offending sole bars by softening with a hair dryer......NEVER DO THIS! None of this is Cambrian's fault, all down to me I'm afraid....you live and learn! Currently building a shark brake van from Cambrian, so far, so good, no wobbles! Yet to put transfers on all this lot, I've bought them but yet to get around to it as I haven't decided which numbers to use.

 

Weighting the wagons is the next thing so that they have some substance....any ideas out there?

 

Have fun!

I've built a couple of the Cambrian Shark kits over the years and would recommend it as a move up to something more complex. They go together well but you do need to take your time to avoid errors and get everything dead square.

 

Easiest thing for weighting wagon kits is lead flashing as used by roofers. Look out for houses being re-done and see what you can get in the way of off-cuts or old stuff that's been taken off. The former is better but lead has a high scrap value, so don't expect a big bit for nothing. If you can't find a helpful roofer, try a builders merchant - there's often a bit left at the end of a roll or they'll cut you a foot off and sell it normally. I've still not used up all of a piece I bought years ago. You can cut it with tinsnips or an (old) pair of scissors.

 

Don't just glue a piece into a wagon - it will inevitably come loose in years to come - secure it with a few pieces of plastic strip firmly attached to the sides/floor so it can't move.

 

Always keep in mind that lead is poisonous - don't work it near where food is stored, prepared or consumed and wash your hands thoroughly after contact with it. 

 

John

Edited April 25, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[cheesysmith]

As for adding mass to wagons, I have 3 systems I use.

 

For vans like the one above, 3x 2p pieces superglued inside (give aprox the right mass, and the roof is added 2 or 3 days later for the fumes to evaporate).

 

Lead flashing.

 

Liquid gravity. Very useful for those wagons where you don't have the ability to hide lead flashing. Just overturn the wagon, add it and superglue and leave to set. Just be careful around the wheels.

 

And my last tip is loom bands. They are perfect for putting the right tension onto the w irons to ensure free running but also tight enough to make sure the wheels don't drop out.

[AJCT]

I've built a couple of the Cambrian Shark kits over the years and would recommend it as a move up to something more complex. They go together well but you do need to take your time to avoid errors and get everything dead square.

 

Easiest thing for weighting wagon kits is lead flashing as used by roofers. Look out for houses being re-done and see what you can get in the way of off-cuts or old stuff that's been taken off. The former is better but lead has a high scrap value, so don't expect a big bit for nothing. If you can't find a helpful roofer, try a builders merchant - there's often a bit left at the end of a roll or they'll cut you a foot off and sell it normally. I've still not used up all of a piece I bought years ago. You can cut it with tinsnips or an (old) pair of scissors.

 

Don't just glue a piece into a wagon - it will inevitably come loose in years to come - secure it with a few pieces of plastic strip firmly attached to the sides/floor so it can't move.

 

Always keep in mind that lead is poisonous - don't work it near where food is stored, prepared or consumed and wash your hands thoroughly after contact with it. 

 

John

 

I don't think anyone else has said how much weight to use (apart from the 3x2p!) - a good piece of advice I got many years ago was to use an ounce (or 25g in new money) per axle, which gives 2oz. or about 50-55g for the average 4-wheel wagon.  It's also important to maintain some consistency of weight throughout your fleet - marshalling light vehicles between heavy ones (and vice versa) can lead to trouble - and did so on the real thing, I'm told.  Long wheelbase vehicles (eg NPCS like PMVs or CCTs) need a little more - mine are usually about 90-105g.

 

HTH... happy modelling !

 

Alasdair

Edited April 25, 2017 by AJCT

[Castle]

Hi Mick,

 

Top job - well done!

I agree with others here, wagon kits are addictive and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

It starts with a little light detailing - some Lanarkshire Models and Supplies buffers here or an etched brake handle or two there.

 

There will then be a wagon you see a diagram for that isn't produced but, that one is kind of close isn't it?

 

Then there is all sorts of kit bashing in your future too.

 

And, one day, the wagon you want just isn't there as a kit.

 

You do know the truly dark area this all leads to don't you?

 

Scratchbuilding...

 

In all truth, it is a great way to accomplish a nice little project, get something that runs and to achieve it all quickly. I have said before, they are the Pringles of the model railway world! Keep up the good work - a smattering of care and confidence in equal measure will see you through most of the kits out there.

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

PS: I think some sort of sub-forum / help group on RMWEB is needed. Wagons Builders Anonymous anyone?

[57xx]

I don't think anyone else has said how much weight to use (apart from the 3x2p!) 

 

I've always used 30g, (irrespective of the length of wagon) simply because that is what I found most of my RTR wagons were weighing in at, there or thereabouts, so keeping everything consistent whether it is kit built or RTR. 

[BWsTrains]

That looks really good. I too am a bit of a newcomer and have had a go at some of the Cambrian models, in fact 4 Catfish wagons, thoroughly recommend them. First three were great, last one was not set at right angles, the wheels weren't level and it was all wobbly and fell of the track! Took my eye off the ball there. I tried to straighten the offending sole bars by softening with a hair dryer......NEVER DO THIS! None of this is Cambrian's fault, all down to me I'm afraid....you live and learn! Currently building a shark brake van from Cambrian, so far, so good, no wobbles! Yet to put transfers on all this lot, I've bought them but yet to get around to it as I haven't decided which numbers to use.

 

Weighting the wagons is the next thing so that they have some substance....any ideas out there?

 

Have fun!

Hi.

 

FWIW as I'm on a learning path like you, see my recent post where I added weights to a Toad Brake van. Your experience with the Cambrians is getting me thinking about wagon building myself.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121359-weighting-a-toad/

 

I really like the modern flat car wheel weights that come in 5g and 10g combination strips, you can break off what you need. Depending on your level of adherence to "prototypical" they are even thin enough to virtually disappear underneath the chassis of open wagons where there is often very limited space in between the chassis and body. I apply a thin film of acrylic filler over the area of the weight, this is strong enough to hold it firmly but can be prised off if required.

 

Being lead they can also be hammered to thinner / wider. Hope this helps.

Edited April 25, 2017 by BWsTrains

[Mark Forrest]

Looking good, great to see wagons being built. As you say, addition of some metal buffers will finish it off nicely (and they will be less fragile than the plastic ones that come with the kit). Likewise I found the brake cross shaft between the vee hangers to be fragile in plastic and drilling through the vees and threading a length of brass wire through can be a worthwhile addition.

 

One thing that I do routinely on van kits is to add some internal bracing, using suitably sized rectangles of plastikard (have seen others do the same with scrap plastic sprue).

This prevents the sides warping inwards and makes sure you have a straight edge to fix the roof to.

Sometimes I'll also add some strips at the corners to ensure it all goes together squarely.

 

Keep up the good work look forward to seeing some photos of the Palvan.

[micked]

 

Thank you everyone for all the encouragement, tips and debate. It really has spurred me on.

 

Anyway as  promised here's my almost complete Parkside Pavan, the result of the last couple of evening's work. It seemed to together a little bit more easily than the Cambrian van, but I son't have the depth of knowledge to say whether that's down to it being a better kit or just the fact that I've gained a bit more experience. One thing that does make one of the more fiddly parts of the kit easier (and probably sturdier) is the fact that the buffers are moulded into the under frame, rather than as separate parts. Buffer heads are yet to be fitted. 

 

The chassis was put together with the aid of Cheeseysmith's loom band tip - that really did help! Everything's nice and square and free running, in fact it was difficult to keep the wagon from rolling away while taking the works photo. Lanarkshire brake hoses have been fitted, which look nice. 

 

The van is weighted with thin strips of lead above both wheels. These were going to go inside the van, but I stupidly glued the roof on without fitting th weights. Luckily the strips are thin enough to fit between the sole bars beneath the wheels - just a little bit of filing was needed (no not to the wheels).

 

the van was painted using Humbrol Satin 133. The pot was shaken and stirred and stirred and stirred, but  I must say I wasn't delighted with it. Coverage seems to be very poor, being quite transparent. I compared it with a couple of other similar colours, which seem fine. Perhaps different pigments just have different covering properties, I go a dud or I was just doing something very stupid. 

 

Anyway, transfers and matt varnish later today, and wagon number two will be rolling out of the works.

 

All the best

 

Mick

 

[Mark Forrest]

I've struggled with some recent pots of Humbrol, no matter how long I mix them for they don't seem to cover like the older pots I have in stock.

TBH most of my freight brown/bauxite stock exits the works in red primer from a rattle can. Looks OK as a faded brown finish and weathering disguises the difference in shade anyway.

[Gordon A]

As for adding mass to wagons, I have 3 systems I use.

 

For vans like the one above, 3x 2p pieces superglued inside (give aprox the right mass, and the roof is added 2 or 3 days later for the fumes to evaporate).

 

Lead flashing.

 

Liquid gravity. Very useful for those wagons where you don't have the ability to hide lead flashing. Just overturn the wagon, add it and superglue and leave to set. Just be careful around the wheels.

 

And my last tip is loom bands. They are perfect for putting the right tension onto the w irons to ensure free running but also tight enough to make sure the wheels don't drop out.

 

What are loom bands?

 

Gordon A

[micked]

What are loom bands?

 

Gordon A

 

 

 Good question Gordon. They're something like small soft elastic bands that were a kids' craze a few years ago. They used them to weave bracelets and things like that. 

[micked]

 

...and here it is lettered and varnished. buffer heads to fit and holes are drilled out for 3 link/screw link couplings for both vans now.

 

The Modelmaster decals went on a treat, and after my disappointing experience with Humbrol Bauxite, I must say that their matt varnish has flattened things out a treat. I could have tidied up the division between the black buffer beam and the bauxite body, but then decided that eventual weathering would hide the join anyway.

 

Sorry about the blurry picture, but I bet you can still see that I managed to put the axle box covers on upside down. 

 

Next up: a Conflat, and possibly a name change for the topic

 

All the best

 

Mick

 

[Andrew s]

A nice tidy job. Once the couplings and buffers are on, they will finish it of quite nicely.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew.

[micked]

A nice tidy job. Once the couplings and buffers are on, they will finish it of quite nicely.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew.

 

 

Thanks Andrew. You're right, I put the buffer heads on this afternoon, and was surprised at the difference it seemed to make.

 

The ex-LNER Conflat was started today. Despite the extra expense, I've decided to order a replacement BR BD container to put on it, rather than use the ex-LNER open container supplied with the kit.

 

All the best

 

Mike

[57xx]

Sorry about the blurry picture, but I bet you can still see that I managed to put the axle box covers on upside down. 

 

Can't say I'd noticed, that particular kit is not my era so to me they look fine

 

It's easy enough to make that sort of slip up no matter how long you've been modelling. When I was building the Ratio LNWR open wagon kits (2 wagons, one box) I ended up with one of each of the two variety of axleboxes on each side of each wagon as I'd not noticed the sole bars where different lengths. By the time I had found that out, the axleboxes were already firmly affixed!