Jonathan's Modern Image Workbench (3D-printed class 323 EMU, class 156s, 3-car 144s, a 141, 4-car class 465s)

[tjf4375]

Nice work! I wonder whether running some brass or aluminium ‘L’ section along the inside of the lower body shell would help to keep it straight? 

[JDW]

36 minutes ago, tjf4375 said:

Nice work! I wonder whether running some brass or aluminium ‘L’ section along the inside of the lower body shell would help to keep it straight? 

 

Thanks, and yes, that's something I'd thought about as I'd progressed with it. The problem with doing that on this one was that I'd already used 'patches' of plasticard on the inside where I'd cracked the body in a couple of places, so no longer had a flat, continuous surface to attach anything to. 

 

I was going to do that on the second one when I get to it, but now I've seen the results of fitting the floor, and know the right size to cut it to (or at least, can make it the same width as the current one, I've no idea if it's exactly "right" but at least consistent), I'll probably just cut three long pieces of plasticard, heat the body in hot water as per this build, but with the 'floor' tacked in place so that as it cools with elastic around it, the result should be a bit more consistent. The first driving coach is the one I've done most of my experimenting on, so I expect it to be a bit rougher. 

[JDW]

Some small progress this afternoon, though it feels like quite big progress as it means coaches actually sitting on their wheels for the first time. 

 

 

The gangway connections are 3D printed ones I bought in bulk with the 465s in mind but which also seem suitable for this project. They are only tacked in place for now, partly to help check the ride height and also to help protect the bogie pivots which are a bit flimsy. I might swap them for captive nuts and bolts. 

 

 

Overall, it's looking promising though a push around some curves showed the wheels binding on the floor at times. It's highly likely that things aren't perfectly level, for reasons which are probably obvious to anyone who has followed the build so far! I think with a bit of gouging the floor to clear the flanges, it should be ok though. I don't want to lift it up any higher and end up with a big gap between body and bogie. 

 

The centre car isn't sitting level, so will need more work to sort out before I tackle the second driving car. Definitely feels like progress though. All that's really needed on the bodies is the strengthening plates below the doors and they should be ready to prime/paint. Still no idea what to do about the glazing, nor the underframe equipment - the idea of building lots of boxes from plastic doesn't appeal, especially as I struggle to get anything properly square...

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by JDW

[JDW]

Oops. Despite already having a fleet of 158s in all three main versions of WYPTE colours, I accidentally bought another. I was searching Ebay for some new bodies for a First Transpennine part-vinylled unit (awful colour, why did I buy it?!) and came across a West Yorks unit at a low price. In the short term, a cheeky touch with a black marker and white paint on the numbers will change it from 158906 to 158908, in the longer term it might get yellow fairings and Arriva logos and be renumbered to 158902, inspired by a picture on Martin Loader's website/gallery. The Kadees will be replaced too, as they seem too long and too low, and the gangway needs a minor repair.

 

 

I did also buy a cheap pair of Regional Railways shells for the Transpennine unit, with minor damage but they can hopefully be made good. What to do with the Transpennine bodies...

...Hmmm, I've always liked the Ginsters livery...

Edited January 5, 2023 by JDW

[JDW]

Hmmm... Not much progress to report, i've been working on the next set of bogies, but discovered that I only have enough bogie side frames for 4 coaches. I'm sure I bought enough for both sets, but have no idea where the others might be if I did. Or maybe I planned to use something else for the powered vehicles. It's been work in progress so long, I can't remember! 

 

On a slight plus note, I happened to stand the 158 next to it earlier and it looks pretty much on the money in terms of height, so I think my decision to add the extra 1.5mm or so was the right one. The bodies are around 10mm longer though. I know the 323s are pretty long, but a scale 2.5 feet seems a lot. A quick look at Wikipedia suggests 22.57m or 74' 1" for a 158 and 22.81m or 74' 10" for a 323, an extra 24cm or 9". 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by JDW

[Swifty11]

Great progress on the 323! How are you finding it? I've been hovering over buying one for a while now but the lack of bogies for them as far as I can see has held it off

[JDW]

Thanks. I didn't know they were still available, I haven't seen them on Ebay for a while. I'd say that if you need a 323, then it's better than starting from scratch. But as you've seen from mine, it's needed a fair bit of work. Chiefly that's meant straightening the splayed bodysides after gluing the two halves together; filling the cut-outs above the bogies in the lower bodyside; adding a floor plus a strip along the lower bodyside to add around 1.5mm; adding new strengthening plates below the doors.

The bogie frames are much too thick as supplied and need thinning down. I used Southern Pride bogies and Hornby 12.6mm wheels. All of the above combine to give a reasonable overall height and ride height. 

As far as I know, no underframe parts are available, nor etched window frames. 

I used 3D printed gangways from a seller on Ebay designed for Hornby class 466 units, also not currently available. 

If the bogie frames aren't available, options could include using a Bachmann 166 chasis for the bogies and drivetrain or modifying some easily-available Hornby class 156 bogie frames - they'd need to be modified to remove the tread brakes and add the extra arms (dampers?) on the sides. Neither option is great, a 166 isn't cheap and the 156 bogies would need a lot of work.

Hope that helps!

[Swifty11]

Thanks that's really useful! They appear on Facebook periodically and I've been tempted. Would love one but think it is above my skillset for now. 

[dmu 156]

Having driven 323's for 17 years it's a unit I wish was avvailble as a  RTR model,  member JDW is correct the vehicles are 23 metres long and around 40 tons each, the TS vehicle being slightly lighter than the DMS  vehicles. A driver's unit if ever there was one.

[JackB95]

1 hour ago, dmu 156 said:

Having driven 323's for 17 years it's a unit I wish was available as a  RTR model,  member JDW is correct the vehicles are 23 metres long and around 40 tons each, the TS vehicle being slightly lighter than the DMS  vehicles. A driver's unit if ever there was one.

 

I signed them a guard for a mere 2 and a bit years. Bloody lovely units. Could always guarantee a good run. Could've done with more door panels in the train, but chorr. Hunslet went out in style.

[dmu 156]

They can stop in an emergency from 90 MPH in a little over 500yds and when it comes to a stand you wouldn't spill a thimble of water. 

[JDW]

No problem @Swifty11. It's not actually difficult, and now I've gotten to grips with what needs doing, it's fairly straightforward and simple steps. It's more complex than anything I've built before but no particular step is hard, just needs a bit of patience and thought. Now I've realised what needs doing, the second one should  be a lot easier and I think it'll build into a good looking model. I'm still debating whether to motorise them or not. If I do, I'll try and get away with a Hornby 153/156 power bogie, if there's enough room for it to swivel. But with nowhere to run them myself, I'm not altogether sure it's worth the hassle. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by JDW

[JDW]

Also to add, I may have been incorrect about the length of the model in an earlier post. In hindsight I don't know if the measurement for the 158 I compared it with is over gangways or over the body. I measured over the body, if it's including gangways, the 323 is about 5mm longer  with the cab front lined up with the rubbing plate of the cab-end gangway on the 158. 

[Wagonmaster]

I have tried using a Hornby Class 153 motor bogie in the TS where it wouldn't be quite so noticeable. There is not great deal of room for it to swivel, but I think it depends on what radius curves or points are being used.

 

If the Hornby bogie doesn't work, then I think another option might be the High Level Kits LoRider motor bogie. I have used these before before to good effect. My Class 303 runs great with with one.

 

Just a suggestion

[JDW]

Ah thanks for the info, I did wonder if the bottom of the body curving in so much might cause an issue. I've wondered about trying to use a floor-mounted motor and flywheel driving a bogie from something like a 158 or 166 which might be narrower with just the gear tower, but that's getting a bit complicated. 

 

I'm not sure about the High Level motor bogie, it looks a nice piece of kit but at £59 per unit, might be stretching my wallet further than I'd like for two, plus the fact I'm not convinced I'd be able to construct it accurately enough to run well.

[JDW]

Since the weather's been ok I thought I'd do a bit more on the 323, maybe get some paint on it too. I got it out, with a view to priming the two coaches that are ready; this is where I was up to last time...

 

 

...but wait, a closer look reveals...

 

 

...and...

 

 

No idea how, it's been sat on a shelf since last time I worked on it. It was never perfectly square/straight but it definitely seems worse now. How?! It's definitely starting to feel like more hassle than it's worth. 

 

I did also have a shuffle around of some of my display models, and found two I'd forgotten I had! One is 'Dutch' 47976 is one I picked up cheap and experimented with weathering a good few years ago, though never finished. (Alongside is one of my Dyna-Drive powered Lima 47s).

 

 

Also Trainload Construction 37694, which is also Dyna-Drive fitted. The other two are a cheap but nicely-repainted  Ebay buy with Trainload Coal branding and a de-motored centre-headcode one in Trainload Metals livery.

 

 

...and finally, not always a popular choice but both of these two are great runners (DCC and through-wired), and although it's impossible to get away from them being slightly on the chunky side, with a bit of work they look much better than the originals. 

 

 

Both I've had for many years, the Provincial one was one of my first models. Wheels blackened, doors converted to 2-leaf and painted yellow, front end also repainted in a better shade of yellow, BSI couplings added and hole underneath opened out, white toilet window added, and the dark blue and white stripes touched in in the door recesses and inner ends. The Regional one has the light blue stripe repainted and the livery corrected around the cab - as produced by Hornby, the whole front end moulding is yellow like the Provincial one. Also the corners of the black squared off around the cab windows. Both also have basic card gangways. Both have been on here before, I should really try and restore the pictures.

 

 

Both the perfect kind of project for those who aren't keen to try stuff on expensive and highly detailed new models, especially since they have a big effect on personalising the model and making it look much better without any huge outlay and minimal skill/tools needed...

 

...unlike the 323. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by JDW

[Swifty11]

Gutted for you on the 323. Seems absolutely bizarre! 

[tjf4375]

That is a nuisance about the 323 body. They are exceptionally long coaches aren't they? 

Don't give up on it though - what you could do is make a cut in the lower part of the body where the original join is, to take a bit of material away. Then realign the body until straight and stick a strip of plasticard to the back of the join just to hold it all true. While you've got it dead straight, glue in a bit of brass rod (use epoxy, not superglue) along the length of the coach on both sides, wherever there's room for it to go without fouling anything like glazing etc.

These cut and shut projects are a nightmare though - plastic never wants to play ball!

[JDW]

Rather than yet more rounds of filling and sanding, I decided to see whether it's worth carrying on by applying some colour and seeing how it looked. It's not awful, but it's never going to be superb either. The masking wasn't completely accurate, the dark grey could do with being lower above the windows, and the yellow end needs masking and painting properly. But it gives an idea. I'd say the width of the dark grey lower bodyside at least vindicates my decision to deepen the sides. 

 

 

 

 

While I had the dark grey out, I did the roofs for the blue 156 - the two vehicles were separate cheap second hand purchases and had different colour roofs. I put a coat of white undercoat and a few layers of yellow on the ends as well while I had it out. 

 

[JDW]

 

Bit of a dark pic but I carried on and added some red and white stripes to the 323. It actually doesn't look that bad from a distance, though it still needs work so is far from the finished livery. Gives an idea at least. While I had the white out, I did the doors on the 156.

[dmu 156]

That's the best livery for a 323.

[KeithHC]

I hope it’s the camera but those look a bit banana shaped 

 

Keith

[ISW]

On 19/03/2023 at 21:50, JDW said:

Rather than yet more rounds of filling and sanding, I decided to see whether it's worth carrying on by applying some colour and seeing how it looked. It's not awful, but it's never going to be superb either.

If you elastic-band the (bananafied) coach roof against a cork/foam topped piece of straight timber/metal would it 'pull' straight? If it just 'springs-back' when you remove the elastic bands, maybe repeating the operation in a bath of warm water would 'relax' the plastic enough for it to retain straightness.

 

Ian

[tjf4375]

3 hours ago, ISW said:

If you elastic-band the (bananafied) coach roof against a cork/foam topped piece of straight timber/metal would it 'pull' straight? If it just 'springs-back' when you remove the elastic bands, maybe repeating the operation in a bath of warm water would 'relax' the plastic enough for it to retain straightness.

 

Ian

Agreed. They are very long coaches. I don't know if I'm mistaken but it looks like some of the body joins may be over windows? That may be part of your problem, because it reduces the amount of material you have to keep the whole assembly 'true'. Cutting and shutting is never an easy process and I feel your pain.

[JDW]

There's no cutting and shutting involved, it's a 3d printed kit in two halves. The only joint is where the centre window is, in the centre of the body. Before it developed the curve, it had already been heated and had the splayed-out sides straightened closer to vertical, and has strengthening strips along the insides of the body. With any luck, yet more heating and straightening will sort it, but it's getting to a point where there's only so many times you can do that and cure other imperfections it causes, there are already ripples in the sides.