Smart Meter = smart move?

[hayfield]

13 minutes ago, spikey said:

 

I don't understand.  Why did it take the installation of a smart meter to make you think about your energy usage?  And why were you getting estimated bills every time? 

 

 What dont you understand ? most normal people have other things on their mind. When you pay bills monthly, simply you get used to paying a regular bill. Might be different if I paid  the bill in full every quarter. As for the smart meter. Having the slave unit showing you the cost in real time allows you take action quickly and if in the right place keeps reminding you. It gives you real time information.

 

I did not say I got estimated bills every time,

[big jim]

I found having a display in front of you saying it’s costing this much right now made me think about what was running round the house, things on standby etc, it certainly made me more conscious about the kids leaving lights on around the house etc, the biggest change I noticed was swapping to LED bulbs from normal filament type, the usage certainly dropped when we made that switch

 

similarly when we had a hive thermostat fitted that’s saved a fortune in gas by not heating an empty house on a standard timer set up, if were out now it’s set that once we move 3 miles away from the house I get an alert on my phone and watch telling me the temperature and whether the heating is running asking me if I want to adjust it, similarly coming home I can set it to turn the heating on 5 miles from home so it’s warm when we get in, if I could be bothered I could have it switch lights on too just as we return home

 

 

[hayfield]

40 minutes ago, big jim said:

I found having a display in front of you saying it’s costing this much right now made me think about what was running round the house, things on standby etc, it certainly made me more conscious about the kids leaving lights on around the house etc, the biggest change I noticed was swapping to LED bulbs from normal filament type, the usage certainly dropped when we made that switch

 

similarly when we had a hive thermostat fitted that’s saved a fortune in gas by not heating an empty house on a standard timer set up, if were out now it’s set that once we move 3 miles away from the house I get an alert on my phone and watch telling me the temperature and whether the heating is running asking me if I want to adjust it, similarly coming home I can set it to turn the heating on 5 miles from home so it’s warm when we get in, if I could be bothered I could have it switch lights on too just as we return home

 

 

 

Jim

 

I have used a similar thermostat system (Tado) No more adjusting the thermostats when going on holiday  or away for a few days, if we pop out for a few hours its off. On the other hand I find on the coldest days we switch it on when we are 30 mins from home. Loads of other functionality, though leaving your phone at home undermines the system. We had a lot of building work, the new extension is super insulated, all the new lights are LED's, most of the older installation has either LED or low energy  bulbs. But nothing wrong in being reminded to be a bit more careful with your energy use

[spikey]

Whatever works for you works for you.  However, I've always found that the best way to minimise energy consumption is to be relatively hard up.

Edited September 6, 2020 by spikey
Typo

[Vistisen]

12 minutes ago, spikey said:

Whatever works for you works for you.  However, I've always found that the best way to minimise energy consumption is to be relatively hard up.

Or possibly, you are relatively hard up because you have not minimised your energy consumption. Being more conscious here at home (three teenagers)

has saved us about 150 pounds a month.

[JJGraphics]

 

 

 

My wife and I are at home much of the time. We have a four bedroom house which has good insulation and double glazing. When its cold we are careful about closing windows and doors.

 

We have gas fired central heating with a modern condensing boiler, good controls and radiator thermostats and we heat the house to a comfortable level when necessary as we both feel the cold. We have a gas-fired "log-burning" stove in the lounge which we use on chilly evenings when the central heating would be overkill. We shower and bath when we feel the need as do our family and friends when they stay. We have air conditioning which we don't hesitate to use when needed and cook with electricity. My wife is careful about not using the washing machine to wash only a small number of items and we cram the dishwasher full before it is run.  We have fitted LED bulbs everywhere.

 

Our combined energy bill for the twelve months until the end of August was £827 which is very low compared to the result I get when I do the calculation online to predict my bill which reckons it should be £1195. It is very unlikely that we could save more than a very few pounds on energy and that would most likely be negated by the running cost of a smart meter.

 

Some people may make savings with a smart meter, in a few cases possibly appreciable ones, but in our discussions with a wide circle of friends and neighbours, the truth comes out that, once fitted, smart meters are quickly forgotten about as other things take precedence in the household and usage habits then just return to the status quo, if they ever changed in the first place. Once the batteries in the display device expire it often just gets dumped. I have noticed quite few of those in the "small electricals" bin at the local waste disposal site.

 

Over the last couple of years I have had a number of discussions with smart meter pushers at two energy companies and they just spout the same nonsense. They are only marketing script-readers and know nothing of the real situation in your home or your usage. They try to tell me that I could save "Over £100" with a smart meter and are completely bemused when I tell them they are talking nonsense and go on to explain the usage in my home. They usually just fall silent and then say something like, "Ah . .  OK, goodbye".

 

John

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by JJGraphics
Corrected typo and added another comment

[BernardTPM]

3 hours ago, Vistisen said:

Or possibly, you are relatively hard up because you have not minimised your energy consumption. Being more conscious here at home (three teenagers)

has saved us about 150 pounds a month.

 

£150 would last me over 3 months...

[JJGraphics]

3 hours ago, Vistisen said:

Or possibly, you are relatively hard up because you have not minimised your energy consumption. Being more conscious here at home (three teenagers)

has saved us about 150 pounds a month.

 

You must have been using a lot of energy as your savings are considerably more than our total annual bill!

 

John

[Joseph_Pestell]

So-called "smart" meters are all about saving costs for the energy companies. No need to send someone out to read the meter.

 

The Govt money spent on smart meters would be much better spent on incentives for people to replace inefficient boilers. I changed the boiler here last year and halved gas consumption immediately.

[woodenhead]

39 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

So-called "smart" meters are all about saving costs for the energy companies. No need to send someone out to read the meter.

 

How often are your meters actually read?

 

Most of my bills arrive as estimates unless I've responded to the email and done my own reading.

 

Energy companies are smart, they know typical usage and a once in a blue moon reading is required just to do a random check.  It's a bit like the Smartshop app with Sainsburys, I've used it lots of times now and only had one random check which involved someone in the shop scanning a random 6 items in the bag to check they tallied with what I had declared.  The onus is on us to give regular readings - too high and we're being overcharged, too low and we can expect a big bill sometime so it pays to declare your energy usage correctly.  No need for Smart meters for that, but varied rate tariffs based on time of day, they need Smart meters and this is where the Government are heading so we will use our electricity when they want us to and that is where costs will be saved.  If the Government can control when we consume then they can better manage the energy network, less peaks mean less capacity is required and less money has to be spent building and maintaining a network of generators that aren't always needed - especially of the type that have to be turned on and off.

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

How often are your meters actually read?

 

Most of my bills arrive as estimates unless I've responded to the email and done my own reading.

 

Energy companies are smart, they know typical usage and a once in a blue moon reading is required just to do a random check.  It's a bit like the Smartshop app with Sainsburys, I've used it lots of times now and only had one random check which involved someone in the shop scanning a random 6 items in the bag to check they tallied with what I had declared.  The onus is on us to give regular readings - too high and we're being overcharged, too low and we can expect a big bill sometime so it pays to declare your energy usage correctly.  No need for Smart meters for that, but varied rate tariffs based on time of day, they need Smart meters and this is where the Government are heading so we will use our electricity when they want us to and that is where costs will be saved.  If the Government can control when we consume then they can better manage the energy network, less peaks mean less capacity is required and less money has to be spent building and maintaining a network of generators that aren't always needed - especially of the type that have to be turned on and off.

 

That's a sore subject with me. Both the previous occupant here and myself have received bills that bear no relation to reality at all. British Gas (Electricity) went through a period of at least 30 months with no meter reading. When they did get a real reading, they simply ignored it!

[woodenhead]

My son's meters for his home are in the cellar of the shop below his flat - if the shop isn't open he cannot read his meters.

[hayfield]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

How often are your meters actually read?

 

Most of my bills arrive as estimates unless I've responded to the email and done my own reading.

 

Energy companies are smart, they know typical usage and a once in a blue moon reading is required just to do a random check.  It's a bit like the Smartshop app with Sainsburys, I've used it lots of times now and only had one random check which involved someone in the shop scanning a random 6 items in the bag to check they tallied with what I had declared.  The onus is on us to give regular readings - too high and we're being overcharged, too low and we can expect a big bill sometime so it pays to declare your energy usage correctly.  No need for Smart meters for that, but varied rate tariffs based on time of day, they need Smart meters and this is where the Government are heading so we will use our electricity when they want us to and that is where costs will be saved.  If the Government can control when we consume then they can better manage the energy network, less peaks mean less capacity is required and less money has to be spent building and maintaining a network of generators that aren't always needed - especially of the type that have to be turned on and off.

 

My problem was the fact they were not smart at all, but too reliant on technology. From what I understand there are three elements to how a smart meter works two meters plus a transmission unit.

 

Their internal system checks that the transmission unit talks to their receiver. This is fine providing  the other two element are working correctly. In my case the gas meter was giving a false reading, in the middle of winter it was reading about 15p of gas use a day. All the so called experts would not accept there was a fault. They looked at the machine and saw it was sending info every hour or so, to them it was working perfectly, which is correct if you only look at , is the item transmitting. However they never looked at the information it was sending. A semi detached building dropping from £2 a day to 15p. Even when the engineer arrived he swore blind it was working until I got him to focus on what was being sent, all of a sudden the penny dropped, gas was being used but not recorded.

 

My energy company was dumb !! 

[JJGraphics]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

So-called "smart" meters are all about saving costs for the energy companies. No need to send someone out to read the meter.

 

The Govt money spent on smart meters would be much better spent on incentives for people to replace inefficient boilers. I changed the boiler here last year and halved gas consumption immediately.

 

We also saw a really significant saving the we updated our boiler.

 

John

[woodenhead]

The issue I see is that Smart meters use technology - and we see how often technology changes especially anything that transmits or receives information via a frequency.

 

Both 4G and 5G use wavelengths that were previous used for other stuff, other stuff that had to be shifted so that the Government could auction off clear wavelengths.

 

The old meters had lives measured in decades, the new 'Smart' meters are currently measured in months as the technology quickly finds itself left behind and new standards being adopted - all the makings of a gravy train for those that produce the things.

 

Why is everything today reduced to the status of a must have upgrade?  They can send spacecraft outside of our solar system and it can still work decades later sending information back - but our Government decreed smart meters lasts only months before being obsolete and 'dumb'.

 

Sticking a microchip and transmitter on something doesn't make it smarter, it just builds in obselescence, that thing which means you never stop spending money on the same item over and over again.

[Reorte]

4 minutes ago, JJGraphics said:

 

We also saw a really significant saving the we updated our boiler.

 

New boiler if you've got an old one and a bit of insulation if it's lacking will make a much bigger difference than staring at a meter reading and running around turning things off, especially if you're not in the habit of leaving them on. I've got an awkward spot I'm not really sure how to insulate, a bit of external roof between a real and false ceiling (gap of maybe 2' and I very much doubt the false ceiling will take any weight), on the other side of the room to the hatch.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Reorte

[JJGraphics]

4 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Sticking a microchip and transmitter on something doesn't make it smarter, it just builds in obselescence, that thing which means you never stop spending money on the same item over and over again.

 

Quite so!

 

Many things that have the word "smart" in their name are anything but smart, and we won't entertain any them in our house.

 

John

[Wheatley]

5 hours ago, spikey said:

Whatever works for you works for you.  However, I've always found that the best way to minimise energy consumption is to be relatively hard up.

Agreed, turn stuff off. I won't have a smart meter until they make me. 

 

Since SSE were taken over by OVO they seem to have had a corporate brain fart - after ringing me every day for 6 days to get my meter reading they estimated it anyway, I'm not trusting them with anything as technically complex as changing meters. 

[boxbrownie]

39 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

My son's meters for his home are in the cellar of the shop below his flat - if the shop isn't open he cannot read his meters.

Definitely not a “smart meter placement” then. 

[woodenhead]

Best way to save money on energy bills - have your kids leave home

[boxbrownie]

18 minutes ago, JJGraphics said:

 

We also saw a really significant saving the we updated our boiler.

 

John

We replaced the 28 year old Vaillant for a new condensing Vaillant just a month ago, we are hoping the same here.

[spikey]

5 hours ago, Vistisen said:

Or possibly, you are relatively hard up because you have not minimised your energy consumption.

 

Hah!  Totally wrong.  Because we have modest expectations and are by nature frugal, my wife and I live very comfortably thank you on an income which is officially classed as putting us in "relative poverty". 

 

What you have saved with your smart meter each month is exactly twice what we spend each month on gas and electricity combined.

[petejones]

They've been pushing smart meters round here this past year, but I haven't taken them up on their kindly offer. Don't use mains gas (have gas bottles - I know the usage when a bottle runs out of gas) nor mains water (have a bore hole and it rains too much where I am) and I can read my own electricity meter, thanks. I'm currently reading it daily as there has been an increase in usage these past couple of months that neither my partner nor myself can work out where it's coming from. I though some cheeky sod must be sneaking into my work shed and charging their electric car here overnight!

[JJGraphics]

19 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

We replaced the 28 year old Vaillant for a new condensing Vaillant just a month ago, we are hoping the same here.

That old boiler had a good lifespan. I very much doubt the new one will last as long, but I have no doubt that you’ll be very pleased with drop in gas consumption!

 

John

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, JJGraphics said:

 

Quite so!

 

Many things that have the word "smart" in their name are anything but smart, and we won't entertain any them in our house.

 

No Smarties then?