English Language Usage

[tetsudofan]

On multi-national environments, having worked most of my life in such environments and being married to a lady whose first language is not English I think it makes you think a bit more before speaking, which is probably a good thing. Also perhaps more slowly, I have been doing it so long it is probably my normal way of speaking now. Something that I find interesting is that when I attend meetings with simultaneous translation most people seem to be much more comfortable speaking in English than via translators on technical matters and tend to do so when they can get away with it.

 

I'm in exactly the same position in that I speak more slowly than others having spent most of my working life in Asia where most of my work colleagues were non-English speaking and, over time, I adjusted the speed at which I talked so they could easily understand me.

 

Not sure if its been mentioned here before is the usage of the word "dinner". I was brought up on the breakfast, lunch, dinner and (maybe) supper where dinner was the main meal taken in the evening... but having said that as a kid we always had the main meals on Saturdays and Sundays but still called it lunch.

 

Its interesting reading on here that "dinner" has two meanings depending on where you live - an evening meal for some of us down south and a mid-day meal for those living up north. It confuses me when I read that somebody had dinner and then spent all afternoon and evening doing other things.....

 

Keith

[jjb1970]

Yes, when I was growing up in darkest Cumbria dinner generally meant the mid day meal and the evening meal was tea or in some cases supper.

[Andrew F]

It's always been dinner for me at mid day in Wakefield. I thought it was the posher folk that said lunch and working classes said dinner but it seems it's almost everyone that says lunch; mindst you, now we're all middle class.

[njee20]

Always used to confuse me when I was in our Manchester office that.

 

"Are you going out for your dinner?"

*checks watch*

"err, no, it's 12:30"

*adopts confused look*.

 

Crazy northerners!

Edited April 30, 2018 by njee20

[Classsix T]

I'm in the South and at primary school the mid-day (!?) meal was always dinner time with dinner ladies etc. It was only progressing to middle school it became lunchtime/lunch-break.

 

It's always been lunchbox down here though, not snap tin or whatever.

 

C6T.

[njee20]

Dinner ladies yes, for sure. "Lunch ladies" sounds very American. But I'd never particularly considered the fact that dinner ladies served lunch, not dinner.

 

You also had school dinners, at lunch time.

 

I'm starting to fear the northerners are right.

[Bernard Lamb]

Yes, when I was growing up in darkest Cumbria dinner generally meant the mid day meal and the evening meal was tea or in some cases supper.

 

But where does High Tea fit into that sequence?

Or even Afternoon Tea for those so inclined.

I know a few people who still partake of Luncheon.

Bernard

[rockershovel]

Dinner ladies yes, for sure. "Lunch ladies" sounds very American. But I'd never particularly considered the fact that dinner ladies served lunch, not dinner.

 

You also had school dinners, at lunch time.

 

I'm starting to fear the northerners are right.

Do you mean “ladies who lunch”?

[rockershovel]

Surely the point is that “dinner” is a cooked meal, containing meat, while “tea” isn’t? “Tea” is a meal consisting of the eponymous beverage, preserves, sandwiches and possibly cake, “High Tea” is the same but including cheese, cold meat or fish.

 

“Breakfast” is a robust hot meal including, but not limited to porridge, cereal, toast, coffee, tea, eggs boiled, poached or fried, sausages, bacon, mushrooms, tomatoes, marmite, marmalade, possibly even kedgeree; served at almost any hour between crack of dawn, and late morning as events allow.

 

“Afternoon tea” is like “morning coffe” - a light interlude between actual meals, for people with no actual work to do.

 

“Lunch” is always in the middle of the day, though.

Edited April 30, 2018 by rockershovel

[spikey]

Surely the point is that “dinner” is a cooked meal, containing meat, while “tea” isn’t?

Quite so. Unless of course you're referring to dinner eaten at tea-time, in which case it's your tea.

 

ETA - Just noticed that that well-known mangler of the English language the BBC News website continues to assume that its readers are mentally challenged, this time by helpfully explaining what a flood warning is ...

Meanwhile, two flood warnings - which means flooding is expected - remain in place along the River Nene, east of Peterborough, and on the coast in North Shields.

Edited April 30, 2018 by spikey

[rockershovel]

Quite so. Unless of course you're referring to dinner eaten at tea-time, in which case it's your tea.ETA - Just noticed that that well-known mangler of the English language the BBC News website continues to assume that its readers are mentally challenged, this time by helpfully explaining what a flood warning is ...

Having just driven round Peterborough Parkway, I’d say that “flooding warning in Peterborough” was somewhat after the event...

 

On the subject, who dreamed up the “yellow snow warning” ? Reminded me of being in the Venture Scouts...

Edited April 30, 2018 by rockershovel

[spikey]

... who dreamed up the “yellow snow warning” ? ...

A Frank Zappa fan?

[Pacific231G]

Surely the point is that “dinner” is a cooked meal, containing meat, while “tea” isn’t? “Tea” is a meal consisting of the eponymous beverage, preserves, sandwiches and possibly cake, “High Tea” is the same but including cheese, cold meat or fish.

 

“Breakfast” is a robust hot meal including, but not limited to porridge, cereal, toast, coffee, tea, eggs boiled, poached or fried, sausages, bacon, mushrooms, tomatoes, marmite, marmalade, possibly even kedgeree; served at almost any hour between crack of dawn, and late morning as events allow.

 

“Afternoon tea” is like “morning coffe” - a light interlude between actual meals, for people with no actual work to do.

 

“Lunch” is always in the middle of the day, though.

Meanwhile in Scotland an evening meal of fish and chips is better known as a fish supper. Tea is something else but, despite many family holidays there in the late fifties and sixties, I never heard a guest house proprietress in Edinburgh or anywhere else in Scotland greet arriving guests with the phrase "Ye'll have had yer tea!!"   I believe that in health terms it's reckoned better for the main meal of the day (dinner?) to be taken around the middle of the day with a much lighter supper in the evening.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Ozexpatriate]

Discussion of "tea" as the term for the evening meal (which was customary during my upbringing) reminds me of something my mother said while visited me last summer.
 
She spoke of "doing the messages". Not having heard this in decades, I was initially flummoxed, but eventually remembered that this was her expression for "running errands".
 
Is "doing the messages" an expression anyone else has heard of?

 

I always felt that "tea" belonged to snacks where that beverage was the star, whether that was with morning tea (sweet biscuits), afternoon tea (cake if you are lucky), high tea (finger sandwiches and cake) or whatever. And of course, purists be hanged, coffee might be served instead - at least as an alternative. Despite (or perhaps because of) my upbringing, I'm not a fan of using "tea" to mean the evening meal.

 

No one has mentioned elevenses. 
 
On the subject of the evening meal, there are parts of the US midwest that use "supper" for the evening meal, but I think this usage is slowly becoming archaic.
 
"Supper" is a word that is not often heard in (coastal) US idiom very often, but not one that would create confusion, particularly in a late evening (like après le theatre) usage.

[62613]

Discussion of "tea" as the term for the evening meal (which was customary during my upbringing) reminds me of something my mother said while visited me last summer.

 

She spoke of "doing the messages". Not having heard this in decades, I was initially flummoxed, but eventually remembered that this was her expression for "running errands".

 

Is "doing the messages" an expression anyone else has heard of?

 

Yes, my paternal grandmother used it continually. Was your mother of Scottish descent?

[Fenman]

Yes, my paternal grandmother used it continually. Was your mother of Scottish descent?

I first encountered this phrase when I lived in Scotland for a few years. I think it’s Scottish.

 

Paul

[rockershovel]

Some areas of Eastern and Central Europe have a custom which translates more or less as “second breakfast”, which is similar to elevenses.

 

I used to eat two breakfasts in my pipeline and tunnelling days - a light snack of toast and coffee before leaving the house, and a much larger meal somewhere between ten and eleven. There would be a short break for a hot drink at about 2pm, and DINNER late in the evening - 7pm or so.

[Coryton]

Some areas of Eastern and Central Europe have a custom which translates more or less as “second breakfast”, which is similar to elevenses.

 

I thought that was hobbits.

 

I first encountered this phrase when I lived in Scotland for a few years. I think it’s Scottish.

 

Yes I think it is. 

 

Meanwhile in Scotland an evening meal of fish and chips is better known as a fish supper. 

 

I first came across this in Scotland as something on the menu in a fish and chip shop, but have since seen it elsewhere.

[APOLLO]

In Wigan (Wiggin) we have our Jackbit at breakfast, dinner, teatime and (if you must have that last pie before bed) supper.

 

 

Brit15

[pH]

Is "doing the messages" an expression anyone else has heard of?

 

Yes, my paternal grandmother used it continually. Was your mother of Scottish descent?

 

I first encountered this phrase when I lived in Scotland for a few years. I think it’s Scottish.

 

Definitely Scottish. Also "Going for the messages." or even "Going the messages."

[Ozexpatriate]

Some areas of Eastern and Central Europe have a custom which translates more or less as “second breakfast”, which is similar to elevenses.

I thought that was hobbits.

Hobbits enjoy both, when they can get them.

[Ozexpatriate]

Is "doing the messages" an expression anyone else has heard of?

Yes, my paternal grandmother used it continually. Was your mother of Scottish descent?

I first encountered this phrase when I lived in Scotland for a few years. I think it’s Scottish.

Definitely Scottish. Also "Going for the messages." or even "Going the messages."

We're an Anglo, Scots and Irish brew on my mother's side - definitely Irish on her maternal side. Her paternal side is much less clear and they've spent a lot of effort in genealogical research and turned up lots on interesting ancestors including at least one transported convict. They long presumed the family name might have been Scottish, but it's not a recent connection.

[luckymucklebackit]

Why do I sense that the differential between rolls, baps and Barms discussion could be resurrected - Roll and Square Slice please!

[stewartingram]

OK, lets throw one in from the Fens. - Docky. Even the small refreshment room in Ely Hospital has The Docky Room.

 

Stewart

[Black Marlin]

Yes, my paternal grandmother used it continually. Was your mother of Scottish descent?

 

It's also used in Northern Ireland. I use it myself, and I'm only in my 30s...