First Group win South West franchise

[Gwiwer]

Maybe they did it like that to represent waves by the seaside ,as the unit might go to the coast.

 

Check the branding on the 313 next door.  The "w" in Coastway is definitely flying higher than the the rest of the "coast"  Pots and kettles? 

[Dunsignalling]

Maybe they did it like that to represent waves by the seaside ,as the unit might go to the coast.

Just as likely to be a camera effect with the lens set to such a wide angle.

 

John

[Mike Storey]

Anyone noticed this?

 

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/destinations-and-offers/offers/stansted-airport

 

Directly trying to take business away from another rail franchise by offering a coach service to an airport instead, using the coach service of a company who has just lost the Anglia franchise. I guess there is a counter-argument that this might persuade some people to leave their car at home and use rail for at least part of the journey.

 

But I have never seen this done so blatantly before. Or am I well out of date?

[eastwestdivide]

Anyone noticed this?

 

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/destinations-and-offers/offers/stansted-airport

 

Directly trying to take business away from another rail franchise by offering a coach service to an airport instead, using the coach service of a company who has just lost the Anglia franchise. I guess there is a counter-argument that this might persuade some people to leave their car at home and use rail for at least part of the journey.

 

But I have never seen this done so blatantly before. Or am I well out of date?

On the other hand, as an alternative to the underground for holidaymakers with luggage, it's one change less and no escalators or rammed tube trains to worry about.

[Zomboid]

I think they already have a tie in the national express with the Woking railair, which you could say is competing with both HEX and the coach from Reading.

And why would SWR care how you get from Waterloo to Stansted? They want people to go to Waterloo rather than get a taxi or drive (Waterloo to Liverpool Street is not a nice tube journey, loads of steps to negotiate, which would be really awkward with luggage).

[Joseph_Pestell]

Anyone noticed this?

 

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/destinations-and-offers/offers/stansted-airport

 

Directly trying to take business away from another rail franchise by offering a coach service to an airport instead, using the coach service of a company who has just lost the Anglia franchise. I guess there is a counter-argument that this might persuade some people to leave their car at home and use rail for at least part of the journey.

 

But I have never seen this done so blatantly before. Or am I well out of date?

 

During the winter months, Stansted is often the only airport with good choice of flights to where I need to go. So I like it.

 

Bit sceptical though of the likelihood of doing the journey in that time.

[Gwiwer]

Reawakening this topic to record the publication of SWR's revised timetable intentions from December 2018.

 

The controversial Portsmouth - Weymouth stopper replacing a London - Weymouth west of Southampton is dead in the water.  It becomes a semi-fast Portsmouth - Southampton then all except Millbrook to Bournemouth.  Two trains an hour are retained Waterloo - Weymouth one of which becomes a splitter at Southampton to offer faster journeys to Bournemouth, Poole, Dorchester and Weymouth.  

 

The contentious plan to run four-an-hour to Windsor with the two additional trains going via Hounslow is also dead.  Windsor will retain its perfectly adequate two-per-hour service via Richmond.  Local concerns about eight trains an hour crossing Datchet level crossing (which has very little queuing space for vehicles without bringing the entire town to a standstill coupled with an appraisal of actual train usage (which is very light indeed off-peak) on the Windsor branch have kicked that into touch.

The proposed Weybridge - Virginia Water shuttle which would have replaced the Weybridge-via-Hounslow services had those paths been utilised by Windsor trains is not proceeding.  The status quo will apply namely two-an-hour Waterloo - Weybridge via Hounslow.  This renders redundant the expensive turnback facility at Virginia Water which has yet to be commissioned.

The headline journey time savings are mostly wiped out by the overwhelming needs of customers to have trains which actually stop at the required stations.  Farnborough, Fleet, Winchfield and Hook will not see the proposed reductions.  All Exeter trains will stop at all stations west of Salisbury rather than the skip-stopping in the Exeter area as now.  Numerous other specific changes have been dropped in the face of public opposition.

 

In short SWR have effectively back-tracked on almost all of their trumpeted "improvements" with only a reduction in peak-hour main-line Clapham Junction calls to go ahead much as originally planned.  They suggest this will give them the additional capacity to actually run more trains and add more carriages to those which still stop at Clapham.  What it does not do is extend the platforms at Clapham which can only accommodate 7 (up) or 10 (down) coaches. 

 

No mention is made of the proposed shuffling of "Metro" trains to give the Kingston Roundabout a more evenly spaced service.  Currently trains depart Waterloo within six minutes of each other in either direction followed by a 24-minute interval.  One direction was to have been swapped with a Hounslow Loop train giving a much more even head way at 13 - 17 minute intervals.  It is believed this will still go ahead as will the enhancement of suburban services currently running hourly on Sundays to become half-hourly.  The Sunday afternoon Waterloo - Hounslow - Twickenham (reverse) - Kingston service would be replaced by more "roundabouts"  and a half-hourly Shepperton service.

 

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/contact-and-help/timetable-consultation

 

In other news SWR has signed an £85m contract for the refurbishment and relivery of its class 444 and 450 fleets and the class 442 units are confirmed as arriving on the Portsmouth Direct in December.  That will release the required units for the enhanced Weymouth services which would be mostly 444s.

[lapford34102]

Credit then to SWR for taking public opinion into account

Stu

[Peter Kazmierczak]

So basically nothing really changes.....

[Gwiwer]

So basically nothing really changes.....

 

Some things do.  There is the additional Portsmouth - Bournemouth service provisionally calling at Fratton, Cosham, Portchester, Fareham, Netley, Woolston, St. Denys, Southampton Central and all except Millbrook.  That reinstates a stopping pattern over the Portsmouth - Southampton section used by BR Southern Region for many years post-dieselisation.  All timetable specifics are yet to be approved by the authorities as a variation to the franchise.  

 

And there is a net capacity increase to and from London Waterloo particularly in peak hours.  Longer trains (12 cars instead of 8 where possible) and more trains (thanks to better pathing with some stopping patterns altered).  Plus the 442s return giving 10-car trains on the Portsmouth fasts instead of 4-car or 8-car class 450s with 3+2 seating.  

 

The adoption of splitting at Southampton Central all day where it currently only occurs at peak times is a constructive way of achieving the customer's wishes for two trains hourly between London and Weymouth while also reducing journey times for many by creating the fast leg west of Bournemouth. 

 

Some win, some lose.  Major timetable changes are always thus.  Customers at Sway lose off-peak direct London services for example.  Those at Brockenhurst will get two instead of one an hour.  

[John M Upton]

There was the plan being mooted when the proposal for the Portsmouth to Weymouth service was being touted around that the Southern services would be default go via Eastleigh vice Swanwick.  Is that still the case as I note the new version has no stop at Swanwick which would suggest that the Netley route will remain default instead.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Then again, perhaps there are some positive changes.....................

Thanks for the heads-up on this. Down here in Dorset, there was great opposition to losing one of the Weymouth - London trains. 

 

On another matter, SWR (or NR) don't seem to have reconfigured their station displays. Was a Fulwell last Friday and the next train is announced / shown on displays as being formed of 8 coaches.

In roll x2 707s (= 10-car)..................

[Gwiwer]

Southern has, on the same day, released details of their May 2018 timetable which addresses John Upton's query.  Their trains will continue to run via Netley by default with a very few via Eastleigh.  Those are ostensibly to serve Southampton Airport but in reality are to maintain train crew knowledge of the alternate route.  

 

It is worth noting that the adjacent TOC's will introduce their major changes on different dates.  There is significant overlap between Southern and SWR across the Havant - Portsmouth - Southampton area meaning what one does must be compatible with what the other does.  GWR also have significant input and there must remain paths for freight at least over the Basingstoke - Southampton core.

 

One change I had overlooked is to the Sunday SWR diesel operations.  Exeter trains will skip Overton, Whitchurch and Grateley which will instead be served by an enhanced service from Salisbury.  In the mornings this will run non-stop Baskngstoke - Reading (marking more new territory for SWR) probably to allow line capacity for maintenance as much as it offers route-knowledge retention and limited connectional opportunities with GWR, but later in the day these trains will run to Waterloo as usual.  It may be recalled that in the days when Thumper units ran the stoppers through Andover that some of those were Salisbury - Reading trips.  There used also to be a Portsmouth - Reading service too but this is now the Waterloo-via-Eastleigh service.

[Chris116]

On another matter, SWR (or NR) don't seem to have reconfigured their station displays. Was a Fulwell last Friday and the next train is announced / shown on displays as being formed of 8 coaches.

In roll x2 707s (= 10-car)..................

Since Christmas I have used the 21:11 from Surbiton to Wimbledon. Most times it has shown on the indicator board as 10 cars but is 8 cars when it arrives although the one week when it showed 8 cars a 10 car train rolled in!

 

I have given up believing what SWR say on indicator boards as it is more often wrong than it is right.

 

Even worse is that both Natonal Rail Enquiries and SWR informed me on the phone one Friday evening that trains from Wimbledon/Surbiton to Alton were running to the normal timetable but come Saturday morning the service had a large number of alterations for engineering works and then the train from Woking to Alton was cancelled due to no guard who had not had a connection for a ride on the cushions due to the engineering works but the connection was shown on his duty!

 

I make the request again that First be sent to run services on the East Coast and can we have Stagecoach back to run South West Trains as for all their faults they were a few thousand per cent better than First are.

[Gwiwer]

Trust me the misleading information as to train formations is as frustrating to staff as to passengers.  It makes it hard to position ramps for assistance (as just one example) when we are expecting a 12-car with the customer requiring assistance advised as in Coach 9 and just 4 or 8 coaches roll in.  It also delays despatch because staff are standing in the wrong spots (at the 12-car stop instead of the 8 car stop for example) and that in turn can cause late running.

[Southernman46]

Worryingly no mention of the extra early & later WOE services proposed beyond Salisbury but MORE stops at Clapham Jn for the WOE services - FFS !!!   Still I suppose they are simply converting the existing crawl from Earlsfield into a stop ...............

[bimble]

So basically nothing really changes.....

 

well, we're losing our nice brightly coloured trains for some dull grey livery... though as I've yet to see one in that livery that doesn't appear to be high on the list either...

[Zomboid]

well, we're losing our nice brightly coloured trains for some dull grey livery... though as I've yet to see one in that livery that doesn't appear to be high on the list either...

They've re-upholstered a 450 and made the interior considerably duller.

I really can't think of any way in which SWR has improved on the previous Stagecoach offering. Everything so far is either the same or worse. Maybe the return of the 442s will help matters, and likewise their new suburban trains (though there's not really anything much wrong with the 455/ 456/ 458/ 707s other than horrible seats in the 707s).

[david.hill64]

The RAIB report into the Waterloo accident on 15 August has now been published. It makes sobering reading.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bf28782e5274a2aeeae93bb/R192018_181119_Waterloo.pdf

[jjb1970]

Lots of learning opportunities there. Sober reading indeed, in the language of these type of documents there is some pretty damming language in there. 

[locoholic]

Paragraph 186: "This deep-seated, tacit knowledge is part of the corporate memory vital to achieve safety."

 

I would argue that the above means the current structure of the UK rail industry, with transient franchises and project contractors, is inherently unsafe, since there is no long-term corporate body. Network Rail's overseeing function is in too many cases too far removed from the day-to-day railway to be an effective repository of such knowledge.

[david.hill64]

Paragraph 186: "This deep-seated, tacit knowledge is part of the corporate memory vital to achieve safety."

 

I would argue that the above means the current structure of the UK rail industry, with transient franchises and project contractors, is inherently unsafe, since there is no long-term corporate body. Network Rail's overseeing function is in too many cases too far removed from the day-to-day railway to be an effective repository of such knowledge.

And yet the railway is safer now than it ever was under BR.

[jjb1970]

I'm not sure that the fractured nature of the railway is as responsible for issues with corporate knowledge as it might seem. I've worked for several large organisations (some extremely large multi-nationals) that were hopeless at this despite being integrated organisations which had been stable in terms of mergers, take overs etc for many years. And I have worked in a very large organisation which was heavily reliant on outside suppliers and contractors and did it very well. So it strikes me that success or failure in terms of corporate knowledge retention is as much a management issue as a corporate structure one.

[Gwiwer]

While some pertinent comments are made above none relates to SWR winning or operating their TOC franchise. Notwithstanding that there are valid learning points across the industry

[mdvle]

Paragraph 186: "This deep-seated, tacit knowledge is part of the corporate memory vital to achieve safety."

 

I would argue that the above means the current structure of the UK rail industry, with transient franchises and project contractors, is inherently unsafe, since there is no long-term corporate body. Network Rail's overseeing function is in too many cases too far removed from the day-to-day railway to be an effective repository of such knowledge.

 

Except the key people in the incident had years of experience - the tester since 2003, the test in charge since 1993.

 

I won't say the current system doesn't have its problems and drawbacks, but these are experienced staff.