Phil Parker Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I was especially thinking of planning for the river crossings, track curves, etc. Perhaps this was planned as presented to create a challenge for the track builders and create "better" tv. If you were building a layout, you would prepare by identifying what track components you needed. While that clearly couldn't be done for the whole length, some "shorter" curves (such as my childhood Hornby Dublo set had) would possibly have helped. Am I being too pragmatic or were the track laying teams simply expected to use their initiative? Looking at the track system in November's Garden Rail, I assumed that the straight track was an extrusion rather than a moulding. Not sure you could make the curved track the same way. There is (looking at some photos I have) plenty of initiative used in the later stages. That's part of the fun I guess, it's just that you can't film all 70+ miles and cram them into 5 45 minutes episodes, so you plan specific challenges along the way to provide entertainment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Schadenfreude dictates I shall have to watch next week. "Now we'll see if the curves worked." Clunk! Sorry Jenny et al! C6T. I get the feeling that like all " reality " shows , reality needs to helped along with drama added as required , the bridge wasn't never going to work first tine and the model boat is close to crackers as you can get. Like most people I'm watching for the tv " drama" not the model railway As for the chap shouting 2-6 lift , I was surprised the women didn't push him in , I would have , does TV exacerbate personalities or create them !!! ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 To do that it should be a model railway... So what's the definition of a "model railway"? Like 5050 I do not regard this as a model railway... Longest Train Set is perhaps a better description... i suppose some will call me elitist, but for me a model railway should be a collection of models put together to represent the a Railway. Not sections of track slapped down on the ground... I suppose it's one of the dangers of us wanting to have records for every little thing... I totally agree with this. In no way, shape or form is it a "model railway". A model in the definition that we normally use is something that is to scale or close to it. A representative of a larger thing. Next time someone says you are just playing with "toy trains" and you reply "No actually they are models" then consider what a model actually is. A Hornby Flying Scotsman is a model, a Peppa Pig train is not. This is just putting a toy train set in the garden, just that they are using a bigger garden. It might be fun, but it's not a model. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2018 Being of a curious nature, I looked up "Hadrian Spooner" on the web and found a link to HMS Engineering. http://www.hmsengineering.co.uk/ So there's some competent engineering backup to the programme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 At the end of the day it's TV , completely artificially created " reality " , dont over analyse it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just keep watching. Four seasons in one day, I was warned. The warning voice spoke the truth. I can well believe that! Last time I was in that neck of the woods (Fort Augustus, and found the remaining little bit of the station there - a bit of platform ramp remains) I went for a bike ride and ended up completely soaked through, and ended up sat inside for dinner looking out over a beautiful evening. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just keep watching. Four seasons in one day, I was warned. The warning voice spoke the truth. I was just going on the photos. I'm waiting until the whole lot is on the Channel Four iPlayer thing. Then I can watch it all in one go. Maybe hiding behind the sofa grimacing.... Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2018 I totally agree with this. In no way, shape or form is it a "model railway". A model in the definition that we normally use is something that is to scale or close to it. A representative of a larger thing. Next time someone says you are just playing with "toy trains" and you reply "No actually they are models" then consider what a model actually is. A Hornby Flying Scotsman is a model, a Peppa Pig train is not. This is just putting a toy train set in the garden, just that they are using a bigger garden. It might be fun, but it's not a model. Jason A model is a representative of a larger thing as you rightly say. The loco used on this programme is exactly that. Whether it be freelance or prototype - it is still a model. It's actually more representative than other models, as it uses steam for propulsion, unlike our more commonly electrically powered versions of steam locos. It ran on rails. Albeit a plastic extruded section, but nonetheless, two parallel lines that are generally regarded as a railway. Therefore it is a model railway. As far as I'm concerned any train set - even if it's in the garden, is also a model railway Cheers, Mick 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Being of a curious nature, I looked up "Hadrian Spooner" on the web and found a link to HMS Engineering. http://www.hmsengineering.co.uk/ So there's some competent engineering backup to the programme. I did occasionally wonder who handled the actual design and specification for Scrapheap Challenge. There would regularly be items required which no commercial yard would have, and the H&SAW side would need to be covered. Mind you, at least one of the best-remembered projects - the trebuchet - is remembered as a total failure which collapsed upon itself when tested.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2018 I did occasionally wonder who handled the actual design and specification for Scrapheap Challenge. There would regularly be items required which no commercial yard would have, and the H&SAW side would need to be covered. Mind you, at least one of the best-remembered projects - the trebuchet - is remembered as a total failure which collapsed upon itself when tested.. I once read somewhere that they had people scouring places for interesting or useful scrap, and would chuck in a new truckload of random scrap every now and then. A couple of times they just handed over some of the components or said they'd hidden them in the heap; the one I remember was building steam powered vehicles, where the chances of finding an engine otherwise would be nil, and a bodged together out of scrap boiler would be a very bad idea. The implication was that they'd try to get hold of pieces with challenges in mind. Another thing that was openly said once (albeit not on screen) is that they'd rather fudge things to still have a competition than have no competition because a team couldn't finish. That trebuchet certainly won the prize for most spectacular failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I always assumed that the Scrapheap Challenge yard(s) was specifically seeded with items for the particular challenge and that the experts were there, basically, to steer the teams in the direction of feasible designs for which the vital parts were available. As for failures, well, things don't always work out as well in practice as they seemed to look at proposal stage. Ask any of the prominent engineers of history, and they had bigger budgets and new materials to work with. Atmospheric Railway anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chriswright03 Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yes I agree with you on the top point, that's why i said it! Wit regards to the second point I don't agree... To object to being laughed at for your hobby is not taking the hobby too seriously, it's just asking that we allow people to "live and let live"... We could just accept that we are the butt of many jokes but I don't see why we should... I'll leave it at that, Chris, it's clear we have differing views on this but like you I will be watching the rest of the programmes, but not from a modelling point of view, just pure entertainment! I appreciate that we have a different point of view and that is perfectly alright with me. My only reason for replying once more is I believe you misunderstood my last post. I am not in any way saying that people keeping quiet about their involvement in the hobby are taking things too seriously. In fact quite the opposite. If I have made that unclear then I apologise unreservedly. I think that the hobby has a stigma attached to it and those that choose to have a dig at us take no account of the individual involved. I do not think we should accept that we are the butt of jokes yet sadly sometimes we maybe are our worst enemies. With regards to the programme. It, as far as I know has not presented itself to be out to make a record attempt although I may have missed that and if I have will accept my error. My impression is that the programme fits the description of light entertainment and as we know that is a massive description and we canot expect these programmes to be specialised or 100% correct. Wide description covers model railways as far as I am concerned and we have all seen the many discussions on here about what is modelling and what is buying boxes and opening them. Where do you draw the line with a programme like this? Enough from me now. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Where do you draw the line with a programme like this? From Fort William to Inverness? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) I With regards to the programme. It, as far as I know has not presented itself to be out to make a record attempt although I may have missed that and if I have will accept my error. My impression is that the programme fits the description of light entertainment and as we know that is a massive description and we canot expect these programmes to be specialised or 100% correct. I think the clue is in the title of the programme. The Biggest Little Railway in the World Dick Strawbridge and a team of model railway enthusiasts attempt to build the longest model railway in the world, 71 miles across Scotland, from Fort William to Inverness Jason Edited January 9, 2018 by Steamport Southport Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) I always assumed that the Scrapheap Challenge yard(s) was specifically seeded with items for the particular challenge and that the experts were there, basically, to steer the teams in the direction of feasible designs for which the vital parts were available. As for failures, well, things don't always work out as well in practice as they seemed to look at proposal stage. Ask any of the prominent engineers of history, and they had bigger budgets and new materials to work with. Atmospheric Railway anyone? Ahh but the atmospheric railway wasn't the complete failure that everyone thinks it was. When locomotives were less powerful than they later became it was a rational alternative to cable haulage on steeply graded lines and a couple of atmospheric railways did run succesfully for over ten years. The 1 3/4 mile railway between Kingstown à Dalkey in Ireland operated for eleven years between 1844 and 1854 and probably carried over three million passengers but an even longer lived line was just outside Paris. This worked on the same principle developed and patented by Samuel Clegg & Jacob and Joseph Samuda that was used both for the Irish line and by Brunel in South Devon. It allowed the Paris-St. Germain-en Laye line to be extended from its original terminus at le Pecq well below St. Germain to a new terminus in the town. This involved a mile long (1,5 km) gradient of 3.5% or about 1 in 29 which was too steep for the locos then available and in that form it operated succesfully from 1847 to 1860 with trains ascending at 35 kph or about 20MPH and returning by gravity. I think the French engineers came up with improvements in sealing the pipe and the atmospheric system was only scrapped when new 0-6-0 Tank locos became available that could bank trains arriving from the Gare St. Lazare up the steep final mile to St. Germain. Brunel's attempt to use the system for a much longer main-line was not a success and Robert Stephenson had already concluded that the atmospheric system was probably only useful for shortish steeply graded railways with a fairly intensive service. In the end of course, the atmospheric railway turned out to be a technological dead-end.................., or did it ? . Edited January 9, 2018 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2018 I did occasionally wonder who handled the actual design and specification for Scrapheap Challenge. There would regularly be items required which no commercial yard would have, and the H&SAW side would need to be covered. Mind you, at least one of the best-remembered projects - the trebuchet - is remembered as a total failure which collapsed upon itself when tested.. Dick Strawbridge made his TV debut on Scrapheap Challenge when he was an REME officer - I never forgot his team putting a gearbox in the wrong way round in a drag racer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chriswright03 Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2018 I think the clue is in the title of the programme. Jason Which maybe shows that I saw the programme but not the title. Didn't see any mention of the Guinees Book of records. Do they still have one? Thing is as it has adverts I always record stuff like that and zap all the breaks out. In fact usually zap out the bit that tells you what you are going to see after the break and the bit that tells you what you have missed just before the return. Not a huge fan of telly to be honest. My bad though and all I can say in my defence that my school reports always said I should try harder. In that respect not much changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 The Guinness Book Of Records is rubbish now. It used to be a book full of interesting facts, now it's very much dumbed down with far too many things about celebrities. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I must admit to despairing at some of the comments on here. At the end of the day, this programme is for entertainment purposes. Yes there will be things done on the other side of the camera to add to the "story". If you can accept that then the show will be an enjoyable watch, if not then don't watch it. It is as simple as that. Ultimately it is a light hearted piece of television which should not be taken too seriously. Sadly it seems some people need to lighten up and stop taking things so seriously. Let's not let this thread degenerate into a slanging match like other threads have on RMWeb. Also, please show respect for the people members who took part in the show. They seem to have had a great time and I wish I had been able to join them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mow Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Dick Strawbridge made his TV debut on Scrapheap Challenge when he was an REME officer - I never forgot his team putting a gearbox in the wrong way round in a drag racer! I have heard a recording about the Dreamy REME and a gearbox. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2018 My point here is that reality is only as real as the TV people want to portray. Nearly 30 years ago I was involved in filming a documentary on Automatic Train Control. The shots where the permitted speed display increased and decreased as the signal aspects changed was down not to the equipment but my hand out of shot fiddling with the back of the dial. The 'action shots' apparently on the front of a train were done through the open front door of a Class 313 travelling at about 30mph with me wedged across the opening so that the cameraman didn't overbslance when we braked. Happy days, no elfin safety considerations, just get a good shot. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestPines Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Being of a curious nature, I looked up "Hadrian Spooner" on the web and found a link to HMS Engineering. http://www.hmsengineering.co.uk/ So there's some competent engineering backup to the programme. Personally, I was wondering if he's descended from the Ffestiniog Spooners. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I always assumed that the Scrapheap Challenge yard(s) was specifically seeded with items for the particular challenge and that the experts were there, basically, to steer the teams in the direction of feasible designs for which the vital parts were available. If I remember correctly, some of the earlier episodes of Scrapheap explicitly stated that specific items had been placed in the yard for the teams to find. Which of course isn't to say they might not find them, or find something else that was better (or more likely worse) suited to the task at hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure there was at least one episode where one of the teams was having difficulty sourcing the correct components and Robert Llewellyn frog-marched them to the correct pile of scrap and showed them what to use! Scrapheap Challenge was also the programme where Dick Strawbridge first appeared ("Proper job!"), which brings us neatly back to..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foulounoux Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Proper job was Andy ??? from the Barley Pickers In Scrappy Races they parked up at a garage in Avebury. As it was on my commute to work I was strangely delayed getting to work that day 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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