RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2017 Has anyone done it? Can you make it fit? I guess one forward, one backwards would work? I was going to use a Peco motor and switches, but by the time I priced them up with an accessory decoder, there isn't much difference in cost and a reduction in wiring! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold imt Posted February 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2017 Has anyone done it? Can you make it fit? I guess one forward, one backwards would work? I was going to use a Peco motor and switches, but by the time I priced them up with an accessory decoder, there isn't much difference in cost and a reduction in wiring! I am Cobalt point motors throughout and have slips and 3-way points included. Yes you do need one forward and one back - doesn't make any difference really. You DO have a sequence problem with the 3 way points - once the motor nearest the toe has moved LEFT you MUST NOT operate the second one or something might break! I use NCE PowerCab macros to prevent that happening! PLEASE get a DCC Concepts Cobalt stencil so you can drill all the holes and screw guides BEFORE you fix down the track. It works like a dream. I also use their pads - but I don't think it makes any difference to the noise I agree - minimum wiring is what I wanted too. I don't think there is much in the price, especially if you buy in bulk from a "box-shifter". I have laid out a separate accessory bus too - currently just taken off the feed from my PowerCab, but as I put more on it the more I think I need to have a separate power supply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroomy Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Just remember when you fit cobalt so back to back on a three way you have to switch one of the motors incoming power wires I have red and black So the one nearest the toe was red in pin 1 black in pin 2 The next one back in pin 1 red in pin 2 3rd pin for the frog wire on each Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 20, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2017 Thanks! This was the info I was looking for. The point is part of a fan in a fiddle yard I've started building, as I said I wasn't going to use the Cobalts originally, but the cost difference isn't as great as I thought it was going to be. I've got a SPROG setup with JMRI, so I need to work that out next! I might get a couple as a POC before spending out for the 11 in total I'm going to need! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold imt Posted February 20, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2017 I've got a SPROG setup with JMRI, so I need to work that out next! I might get a couple as a POC before spending out for the 11 in total I'm going to need! I for one would like to know how that works out. I'd like some automated control but I already have some NCE kit so I'm sticking with that for the time being. How about posting up how you do it and what the pitfalls are? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 20, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2017 Ok, more than happy when I get to that stage.. Procrastinating about ordering a few bits at the moment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 21, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2017 Procrastination over.... I'll report back when I've the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2017 . You DO have a sequence problem with the 3 way points - once the motor nearest the toe has moved LEFT you MUST NOT operate the second one or something might break! I use NCE PowerCab macros to prevent that happening! If you are using Cobalt Digital IP and mounting them adjacent to each other, needing reverse operation, it has an inbuilt reversing function using special command 197. If you are using Peco Code 75 asymmetrical three-way, then there is no direct requirement to interlock the two motors - you can throw the two sets of blades in any direction without any physical conflict. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ely_South Posted February 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2017 You DO have a sequence problem with the 3 way points - once the motor nearest the toe has moved LEFT you MUST NOT operate the second one or something might break! At the risk of the ignorant preaching to the wise, DCC Concepts have given some advice on interlocking using one of the Cobalt motor's switches here (page 7): https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/dcc-advice-11-wiring-pointwork-and-special-track-conditions-for-dc-or-dcc/ Cheers Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 23, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2017 You are preaching to the ignorant.. Thanks, I'd not seen that! I had not realised some of the tricks and twists with Electrofrog points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 23, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2017 Page 2.. Bottom right corner.. https://www.dccconcepts.com/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=https://www.dccconcepts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/M-Owners-Manual-Cobalt-iP-Digital-2014.pdf&settings=111111111&lang=en-US#page=&zoom=auto&pagemode= Am I to assume that the switch is being used to change the input of the motor B, but the switch as both DCC bus wires connected, so motor B would have 'black' on both sides in one position? Is that a good idea? Are you also not switching the motor on and off, is that a good idea? I'm going to use JMRI, so using routing setting I should never have an issue. But I thought it might be a good idea to also interlock electrically to really make sure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ely_South Posted February 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2017 Page 2.. Bottom right corner.. https://www.dccconcepts.com/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=https://www.dccconcepts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/M-Owners-Manual-Cobalt-iP-Digital-2014.pdf&settings=111111111&lang=en-US#page=&zoom=auto&pagemode= Am I to assume that the switch is being used to change the input of the motor B, but the switch as both DCC bus wires connected, so motor B would have 'black' on both sides in one position? Is that a good idea? Are you also not switching the motor on and off, is that a good idea? I'm going to use JMRI, so using routing setting I should never have an issue. But I thought it might be a good idea to also interlock electrically to really make sure! Re your first question - I have to admit, instinctively, I would have connected the AC 'feed' (blue) to Motor A S2C , so that; when Motor A is operated; it either provides power to the LED circuit (interlocked), or provides power to Motor B. Not sure why they seem to attach the AC feed to the left side of the switch instead.... Might be worth a call to them (or wait for better advice from others here...) Re your second question - Yes; the power to Motor B is switched on and off - so you'd need to make sure Motor A is fully thrown (in the correct direction) before you could then send a signal to Motor B. No idea about route setting in JMRI; I guess you can set a delay between commands? (Can't see an issue with the powering on/off of the Cobalt). Hope that's useful (I have to warn you that I plan to wire one of these myself (Cobalt IP Analogues on a Peco Code 100 3-Way), but haven't got around to it yet - So my comments are untested...) Cheers Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 28, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2017 I for one would like to know how that works out. I'd like some automated control but I already have some NCE kit so I'm sticking with that for the time being. How about posting up how you do it and what the pitfalls are? It's brilliant! I've got each road of my fiddle yard setup as a route. There is a 3 way point, into a small radius electrofrog point creating 5 roads. With JMRI you can select each point to be either thrown or closed. You simply tick the points you want to operate and then select thrown or closed from the drop down. Then you run the route and it changes all the points. I thought there might be an issue with the 3 way and changing both blades together, but it's fine. I'm using Engine Driver on an Android phone. I just swipe right, select Fiddle Yard 1 and all the points change to give me access. It's pretty much the best thing since........ (Not sure right now as it's too good) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 It's brilliant! I've got each road of my fiddle yard setup as a route. There is a 3 way point, into a small radius electrofrog point creating 5 roads. With JMRI you can select each point to be either thrown or closed. You simply tick the points you want to operate and then select thrown or closed from the drop down. Then you run the route and it changes all the points. I thought there might be an issue with the 3 way and changing both blades together, but it's fine. If timing of blade movements is a (potential) issue, you can add those into the route with delays between each turnout throw. Its another option available for you. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 28, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2017 JMRI doesn't appear to allow delays between point throws.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 JMRI doesn't appear to allow delays between point throws.. Yes it does within Routes - there is an option to specify the number of milliseconds between each action. I've just tried it with 1000mSec and the route has the predicted 1 second delay between each action, whereas a route with the delay set to zero has no significant delay between each action. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 28, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2017 Yes, but you can't specify the order.. So that really doesn't help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Yes, but you can't specify the order.. So that really doesn't help. In that case, do it with Logix. Within the Logix, monitor the initial states for the changes which trigger action, such as the initial turnouts to move, the set the action to be the second turnout with a delay. Sometimes putting in a few "internal" turnouts helps as those can be used as temporary values. (The answer in JMRI is almost certainly yes you can do it, but it might not be dead obvious. If there is a need for a specific feature, ask on the Yahoo group "jmriusers" and chances are that someone will implement it for you..... ) - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted February 28, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2017 Yes.. I did look at that, but, the 3 way isn't being an issue so didn't bother. I might look in more detail to Logix, I have some other ideas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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