Adding Colour Light signals to a DCC layout & controlling them

[imt]

I was wondering whether somebody out there could help from their experience. I have a small 00 DCC layout with NCE PowerCab.  I have fitted Cobalt point motors and set up macros on the PowerCab to set routes though various points. Now I want to put some signals on the layout. I have a separately wired accessory bus from the PowerCab panel but I'm looking at the DCC Concepts "sniffer" to provide a completely separated bus https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/alpha-sniffer/.  Good idea?

 

I have been researching things for a while and getting rather frustrated and put off.  Adding signals seems to be complicated.  I am not into detail or scenery, but I do enjoy the operations aspect and having a timetable with realistic movements.

 

I am not into complicated wiring and building my own circuits, so I found Train-Tech signals attractive, being a package solution. They may not be "authentic" or particularly well detailed but they seem to come in cheaper by far than buying a signal and a separate DCC board (which has to be wired in appropriately). They don't have GPLS or PLS which is sad. Am going in the right direction or am I missing something?

 

Then comes the whole problem of control. The point macros work fine, but on a single line BLT there are two directions.  From the fiddle yard there would be no signals, but the other way round there need to be. I have looked at the RR&Co etc etc, and the free ones.  Many of them want block occupancy and huge complications not really appropriate for me.  JMRI I simply cannot get my head round and for 10 or so signals (including GPLS) it doesn't seem worth the effort to understand it.  I am looking at 2 separate ideas. 1) to use Hornby Rail Master which seems to have improved greatly as far as signalling is concerned (I would only use it for accessories, the loco control would remain with my trusty Power Cab). 2) to use an NCE Mini-Panel which would plug into the NCE system and could be programmed to call the PowerCab macros for the points, and change colour light signals as appropriate. The Mini-panel looks like a laborious solution requiring manually entered program steps (not moved on from Apollo 13!), but at £35 it is much cheaper than RailMaster at £80 and doesn't need a computer to be sited near the layout, but then I would need to make up some kind of mimic diagram to hold the switches. Am I missing something?

 

Suggestions, examples, references etc all appreciated.

[shibushe]

Hi. Like you I am not an electrician, rather play with my trains than spend hours wiring. so when it comes to Signals in particular I do have some experience.

For instance some of my signals are wired to Traintronics point motors, 2 aspect Berko.

However for me anyway difficult to focus under the layout to connect all the wires.

I do have a couple of 4 aspects wired to Block Signalling modules. these work via infrared detection, again you have to be on your knees to wire.

Want it simple, then look at Train-Tech. I have 12 of these as there adverts say a matter of seconds to get working. NO soldering. Works DC or DCC.

I have on the bench at this moment two TrainTech 2 aspects with right feather, fantastic.

I am told that Berko are going to produce Plug & Play Signals, not available yet.

If you go down the road to use Berko signals with block signal modules. Beware. Make sure you specify Negative or Positive anode. Come back if you need more info.

PS. forgot to mention. TrainTech have to have an address, mine are the same as the point it relates to.

They now produce there own block signalling system fully automatic.

[imt]

Shibushe:

 

Thanks for the encouragement.  How do you control your signals?  Attaching them to a DCC bus is one thing, getting the necessary commands to them is quite another.  David at Train-Tech has been very helpful, but unless one uses something like RailMaster the nitty gritty is down to you.

 

The world is full of people who are going to do something one day.  I am pleased to see that there is a full UK web site for DCC Concepts now, with improved descriptions of their Cobalt Alpha stuff.  I still don't understand it, and anything to do anywhere near what I want seems likely to cost hundreds of pounds, and even then only switch individual accessories.  I THINK its for people who want signal box like operations - move one lever and one thing happens.  I (and I think most dumb users like myself) want to press a switch and have all I need done at once, points and signals for a route - which to my mind means macros and not single switches.

[RAF96]

The new TRain-Tech digital signals can be stand alone or one wire linked to each other and mimic panel, point switches, etc. Smashing product and extremely helpful people at TT, so well worth a look at their downloadable infopack.

 

They use a built in IR sensor for detection, which works in either direction and the signals can either clip to the track or be mounted remote and soldered by wires to the track.

 

A row of them will sense a passing train and phase their lights accordingly, red, amber, green and/or with theatre boards or feathers.

 

If there is a drawback (for me) then it is the price, which obviously escalates from the simple 2 aspect version up the range to a 4 aspect one with feathers, etc. If you want to populate an extensive layout then arrange for deep pockets.

 

Rob

[imt]

RAFHAAA96:

 

Thanks for that.  I have spent some time looking at Train-Tech signals and David at Train-Tech has been most helpful. I think I have also seen some posts from you in the Hornby RailMaster forum - sorry if I am mistaken.  I am really after advice, examples, pointers and discussion about how best to control signals in a DCC setting and as simply as possible. So if you do have some comments/advice on RailMaster or NCE mini-panel or any other way of doing this that would be very helpful.

 

I have a small branch line terminus for which the whizzo TT sequenced signals are not much use - though they seem to be a good solution for a big multi-level system or just for fun. I need to be able to set signals in the station as I set the points, and not set the signals until all the points are set and the fiddle yard is ready (if not a shunt movement) so I have quite a bit of logic to include.  I also need to reset signals to danger once a movement to the FY is complete.

 

I would agree that signals are expensive, but the TT ready to go DCC signals seem to be cheaper than most others when you take into account the need to add DCC control board to the price of most alternatives.

 

David at TT has said that not many people bother with signals, and that he is attempting to make things simpler.  In my little world the absence of signals offends me - I can operate all the rest as prototypically as I like, but trains setting off into the distance with no signal just doesn't feel or look right. BUT once you start you quickly realise that it isn't just change the colour of light showing - the change means all is set and safe, so there is a lot to check first.  Nobody is going to die on my model but .......

[NIK]

Hi,

 

With regards to clearing a signal (say a two aspect from Red to Green): using NCE Powercab if the signal has a DCC accessory address (say 2001) and Red is say state 1(N for normal)  and Green is state 2(R for Reverse) then reprogram the matching route Macros for that signal as it was before but adding the address of the signal (eg 2001) to the end of the macro along with the state: 2=R.

 

Then when one of the  appropriate routes that requires that particular signal to clear is selected using the NCE macro button/menu then the signal should clear.

 

I can't provide an answer to how to set signals back to Red automatically as that depends on the signal decoder design or on DIY solutions none of which have I tried as yet.

 

I'm going to try Heathcote IRDOT and MERG Hector Infra Red detectors with MERG DCC accessory decoders and home made signal controllers to do the DCC decoding and auto reset to Red, but I'm into electronics and have a limited budget.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[imt]

Hi,

 

With regards to clearing a signal (say a two aspect from Red to Green): using NCE Powercab if the signal has a DCC accessory address (say 2001) and Red is say state 1(N for normal)  and Green is state 2(R for Reverse) then reprogram the matching route Macros for that signal as it was before but adding the address of the signal (eg 2001) to the end of the macro along with the state: 2=R.

 

....................

 

I'm going to try Heathcote IRDOT and MERG Hector Infra Red detectors with MERG DCC accessory decoders and home made signal controllers to do the DCC decoding and auto reset to Red, but I'm into electronics and have a limited budget.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

Thanks for that Nick.  I think I have the simple bit.  You are right, I could add signal setting to the end of my PowerCab macros where there is room (some already control 6 points) the complicated bit comes when you add some safety bits and pieces and ensure that the fiddle yard operator is ready. The sequence then is something like:

 

For main line departure ex platform 1:

Press "P1 dep" button

IF no accept from FY, then buzz, end (no movement on main line except for shunting unless FY "accepts" incoming)

 else obey macro 1, set signal 01 clear (macro 1 sets a whole load of points correctly)

Wait FY arrive then set signal 01 danger, end (the FY operator presses a "train arrived" button, and the norm for all signals is danger).

 

This is the kind of logic that I THINK I can do on the NCE Mini-panel - unless you or others know better OR a better way???

 

I'd love to set up a "Tokenless Block" system  http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/gen/signal/tkblock.html   with proper offer/acceptance between the station and the fiddle yard but I think that is beyond me.  As it is, I will have a normal/accept switch and a train arrived button on my panel for the station and the fiddle yard..

[NIK]

Thanks for that Nick.  I think I have the simple bit.  You are right, I could add signal setting to the end of my PowerCab macros where there is room (some already control 6 points) the complicated bit comes when you add some safety bits and pieces and ensure that the fiddle yard operator is ready. The sequence then is something like:

 

For main line departure ex platform 1:

Press "P1 dep" button

IF no accept from FY, then buzz, end (no movement on main line except for shunting unless FY "accepts" incoming)

 else obey macro 1, set signal 01 clear (macro 1 sets a whole load of points correctly)

Wait FY arrive then set signal 01 danger, end (the FY operator presses a "train arrived" button, and the norm for all signals is danger).

 

This is the kind of logic that I THINK I can do on the NCE Mini-panel - unless you or others know better OR a better way???

 

I'd love to set up a "Tokenless Block" system  http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/gen/signal/tkblock.html   with proper offer/acceptance between the station and the fiddle yard but I think that is beyond me.  As it is, I will have a normal/accept switch and a train arrived button on my panel for the station and the fiddle yard..

 

Hi,

 

You could DCC the communications to and from the fiddle yard by putting DCC accessory decoders 1) at the fiddle yard driving indicators and 2) as input(s) to the mini panel.

 

Part 1) is probably not too difficult.

Part 2) relies on finding an accessory decoder that will work reliably with the mini panel inputs.

 

You could then put the address of the new FY accessory decoder at the end of the appropriate macros so the indicator comes on in the fiddle yard when needed.

The fiddle yard operator would then accept when ready by typing in the address of the new accessory decoder (say 888, state 1) on the second NCE throttle. The mini panel would then see the address change state, presumably clear the appropriate signal and reset the address 888 to state 2.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[njee20]

I'm going to try Heathcote IRDOT and MERG Hector Infra Red detectors with MERG DCC accessory decoders and home made signal controllers to do the DCC decoding and auto reset to Red, but I'm into electronics and have a limited budget.

 

I've got a Heathcote IRDASC module, it's pretty good. Got it set up in about 5 minutes, and it works well enough. I'm going to use JMRI for most of my signals, as Heathcote modules get expensive and I'm not sure how well they work with things like route indicators and more complex logic. I agree that JMRI isn't overly intuitive, but there's a good 8-part tutorial on YouTube which explains it all nicely. I'm using an Arduino for the interface, which is about the cheapest solution I suspect.

[Suzie]

For colour light signalling unless you are trying simulate a location where the signals are controlled from a signal box you really need to have block detection just like the prototype. If you only have ten signals then you will only need about that number of blocks which is not a huge investment in equipment and wiring. NCE make the AIU board and BD20 current detectors for doing this, and the current transformers just have to have the track feed to the block passed through them.

 

While JMRI might look a bit complicated, what you need to do is quite straightforward, and it is a lot easier to do with JMRI than any other software. Just open PanelPro, draw your track diagram in layout editor, add your signal masts to the plan, and autodiscover the logic. Probably just a couple of hours work. Adding a virtual control panel will take longer, but you don't need that.

 

If you want to do prototype operation you will probably want to include position lights and feathers and have the same aspects shown on the signals as on the prototype. For that you really need to look at the type of signal made by CR Signals or Absolute Aspects - at least for the junctions, anyway. Depending on how complex your signals are and what type you can have up to four signals on a decoder so the decoder costs are not always that high and will allow you to do a lot more than the very restricted TrainTech ready to plant signals.

 

Why not post up your track plan so we can see what you need?

[imt]

You could DCC the communications to and from the fiddle yard by putting DCC accessory decoders 1) at the fiddle yard driving indicators and 2) as input(s) to the mini panel.

 

.......

 

You could then put the address of the new FY accessory decoder at the end of the appropriate macros so the indicator comes on in the fiddle yard when needed.

The fiddle yard operator would then accept when ready by typing in the address of the new accessory decoder (say 888, state 1) on the second NCE throttle. The mini panel would then see the address change state, presumably clear the appropriate signal and reset the address 888 to state 2.

 

 

Thanks Nick,

 

I think that the things you are saying are probably right.  In order to do the full TB I would need some latching relays.  I just don't see how to do it at the moment.  I am trying to get away from using the NCE throttle to control things - hence my questions about the NCE Mini-panel.  Anybody out there use one?

[imt]

I've got a Heathcote IRDASC module, it's pretty good. Got it set up in about 5 minutes, and it works well enough. I'm going to use JMRI for most of my signals, as Heathcote modules get expensive and I'm not sure how well they work with things like route indicators and more complex logic. I agree that JMRI isn't overly intuitive, but there's a good 8-part tutorial on YouTube which explains it all nicely. I'm using an Arduino for the interface, which is about the cheapest solution I suspect.

 

I am not sure that the Heathcote stand alone stuff is of much help for a small branch line terminal, and I don't need 4 aspect signals.  I accept that there are those amongst us that are happy with computer software but I really don't want to have to buy another computer or to learn all about Arduino (or similar) or SPROGs - all of which I have researched and all of which can quickly add up financially.  I HAVE looked at the written and U-tube tutorials for UK signalling with JMRI and they are very complicated and essentially for a twin track through station.  The cost of signals will be enough to think about without too much extra gubbins.

[shibushe]

Shibushe:

 

Thanks for the encouragement.  How do you control your signals?  Attaching them to a DCC bus is one thing, getting the necessary commands to them is quite another.  David at Train-Tech has been very helpful, but unless one uses something like RailMaster the nitty gritty is down to you.

 

The world is full of people who are going to do something one day.  I am pleased to see that there is a full UK web site for DCC Concepts now, with improved descriptions of their Cobalt Alpha stuff.  I still don't understand it, and anything to do anywhere near what I want seems likely to cost hundreds of pounds, and even then only switch individual accessories.  I THINK its for people who want signal box like operations - move one lever and one thing happens.  I (and I think most dumb users like myself) want to press a switch and have all I need done at once, points and signals for a route - which to my mind means macros and not.

You asked how do I control my signals. As I said before you need to program the signal to the point address you have already. With  TT signals you touch the two program contacts on the base of the signal. The Leds will flash. Enter your chosen address, then press Ok or whatever your command station allows to do this. The signal will then stop flashing and set to the colour to which way you want, if its wrong then reset the point and do it again. Sounds long winded but I assure you its seconds.

Wiring  TT signal, You can either use the contact fingers to the rails or , as I do is cut them off and solder two wires ( Both can be the same colour ) it makes no difference which one goes to the Bus. I feed my wires from underneath using the two small holes close to the base, The I feed those through suitable holes in the base board to the bus. That way you cant see them.

Now by sending a command to change a particular point the signal will change also, I have three TTs that all change together when I set the route it also tells me that trains that are in the hidden fiddle are protected and visa versa for trains that the route is set for.

Not only that but I get much pleasure watching all this happen, and that I DID IT.

[Phil S]

To ensure the signals are restored to danger after a move, I have been trying to look at ways of automatically returning them to danger after a short delay - which may vary depending on which part of the layout the represent - due to selective compression and fore-shortening etc ... as well as 'lines off stage'.

On the basis that most (other than automatic signals on plain line) spend most of their time at danger - only beng cleared by the authorised move - what is required is a 'reset' command  or 'monostable' type operation - which is available on some decoder modules, which defaults to red after say 10 seconds.

Ideally, if using software to issue the commands, any conflicting point movement or signalled path would immediately reset signals to red.

[imt]

While JMRI might look a bit complicated, what you need to do is quite straightforward, and it is a lot easier to do with JMRI than any other software.  ........

 

If you want to do prototype operation you will probably want to include position lights and feathers and have the same aspects shown on the signals as on the prototype. For that you really need to look at the type of signal made by CR Signals or Absolute Aspects - at least for the junctions, anyway. Depending on how complex your signals are and what type you can have up to four signals on a decoder so the decoder costs are not always that high and will allow you to do a lot more than the very restricted TrainTech ready to plant signals.

 

Why not post up your track plan so we can see what you need?

 

Hello again Susie.

 

Thank you for taking an interest again - different layout this time.  You were very helpful last time. I played a bit with what you suggested last time and couldn't really get to grips with it.  It was overkill for a shunting plank (at 8' by 15") but I did want to see if I could use computer control.  It effectively made sure that I dropped that idea.  I am not sure I want to try for a software solution.

 

I certainly don't have the budget for 10 block detectors and the more expensive CR/Absolute signals which need additional controller boards. I KNOW that means my signalling will not be "correct" but I'll have to live with that. I will need some GPLS (especially since TT don't do PLS) and a board and CR signals will be needed for that.

 

I attach a diagram which shows that "controlled" area (there are further hand operated points to the bottom right) and the 16 point macros I have set up.  PLEASE don't waste your precious spare time trying to sort something out in JMRI - I really won't use it.  Your expert comments on signals would be appreciated, and any ideas on simple control via a piece of hardware like a NCE Mini-panel would be helpful.

[shibushe]

I am not sure that the Heathcote stand alone stuff is of much help for a small branch line terminal, and I don't need 4 aspect signals.  I accept that there are those amongst us that are happy with computer software but I really don't want to have to buy another computer or to learn all about Arduino (or similar) or SPROGs - all of which I have researched and all of which can quickly add up financially.  I HAVE looked at the written and U-tube tutorials for UK signalling with JMRI and they are very complicated and essentially for a twin track through station.  The cost of signals will be enough to think about without too much extra gubbins.

Your right imt, all that gubbins. A you have already noted from my posts I like it simple. But, try not to get to excited just because Newcastle  could be back in the premiership.

[njee20]

I am not sure that the Heathcote stand alone stuff is of much help for a small branch line terminal, and I don't need 4 aspect signals. I accept that there are those amongst us that are happy with computer software but I really don't want to have to buy another computer or to learn all about Arduino (or similar) or SPROGs - all of which I have researched and all of which can quickly add up financially. I HAVE looked at the written and U-tube tutorials for UK signalling with JMRI and they are very complicated and essentially for a twin track through station. The cost of signals will be enough to think about without too much extra gubbins.

Any need for the attitude? Actually Heathcote modules may well do exactly what you want, but it's a costly way to do it. As I said.

 

You talk about a simple BLT, but then say 10 signals. That strikes me as a lot. I'm using fewer for a 4-track main line layout. As Suzie suggested why not post your track plan, so we can advise?

 

I'm unclear if you want automation, in which case you really do need some sort of occupancy detection, either using the software you're against or using something standalone like Heathcote, Block Signalling etc, or if you want to retain control, but with appropriate interlocking etc. Changing signals for points is really only half the 'battle', which appears to be what the mini-panel offers.

 

Train Tech's new offerings may well do what you want, but don't help on ground signals or multiple feathers, for which you'll need some other system.

 

Edit: most of the above irrelevant now you've posted! Damn Victoria station and its lack of signal!

[Suzie]

I think that your plan is simple enough to just add signals to the routes, and you can just use a single detector (IRDOT preferably, or BD20) connected to the Minipanel to fire a macro to set all the signals back to danger whenever a train traverses point 4 which is the key control point and appears in all signalled routes.

 

Each route will have to be directional, setting the points and then after a short delay clearing the appropriate signal depending on whether entering or exiting.

 

You have a layout that really can make use of the features that only NCE has.

 

The signal controlling entry from the fiddleyard needs to be a posh one with a position light and ideally a route box (can be stencil) or a feather to give platform information, but the rest can all be 2-aspect (or possibly 3-aspect that will only ever show a yellow clear aspect, just add extra routes for the greens if required - you will only ever see yellow or green, most unlikely on the prototype to see yellow upgrade to green in this scenario).

 

The only caveat is that with no comprehensive detection you will have to be alert with your eyes that the route is clear before you set it!

[imt]

I think that your plan is simple enough to just add signals to the routes, and you can just use a single detector (IRDOT preferably, or BD20) connected to the Minipanel to fire a macro to set all the signals back to danger whenever a train traverses point 4 which is the key control point and appears in all signalled routes.

 

Each route will have to be directional, setting the points and then after a short delay clearing the appropriate signal depending on whether entering or exiting.

 

You have a layout that really can make use of the features that only NCE has.

 

The signal controlling entry from the fiddleyard needs to be a posh one with a position light and ideally a route box (can be stencil) or a feather to give platform information, but the rest can all be 2-aspect (or possibly 3-aspect that will only ever show a yellow clear aspect, just add extra routes for the greens if required - you will only ever see yellow or green, most unlikely on the prototype to see yellow upgrade to green in this scenario).

 

The only caveat is that with no comprehensive detection you will have to be alert with your eyes that the route is clear before you set it!

 

My apologise for the slow response - I was out yesterday evening. Thanks for all that advice and the time it took to look at the diagram.  As ever you have been most helpful and raised a series of interesting questions;

 

Can I say for starters that I had thought of putting the Mini-panel in a box which could be hung on the side of the layout and just having the single NCE bus cable plugged into the second socket on the faceplate.  Simple wiring - the buttons or switches wires are all tidy in the box.  I liked the button box idea in the Bradfiled GS post #58 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37171-bradfield-gs-help-requested-re-signalling-scheme/page-3.

 

I think I get the directional bit now - your comments on top of a re-read of Bradfield bring that home to me (sorry about that!). The inward will actually have the exit to the fiddle yard signal only (section signal for the TB checks) but the entry signal to the station will be virtual - it wouldn't be visible (not that you could know that) and having checked it would cost over £100 alone for the spec. needed (plus the DCC board to drive it of course)!  

 

I like your idea of using some king of sensor to reset signals on passing.  The problem that arises is that it means wires back to the control panel in order to make it work, which is also why I am keeping away from block occupancy detection - because there would be rather a lot of wires back to the control panel.  The push button for arrival is not foolproof I agree.  I'd love to have a way round it.  But since the NCE bus is only one way, there is no way of getting data back to the panel without extra wires. Or is there?

 

Thanks for your comments on signals.  I was thinking that the starters ought to be red/yellow only since the real key is the section signal (off stage) for the TB single line.  There would need to be this gap so that shunting could take place with the single line blocked for traffic.  An alternative might be to use 3 aspect, green for clear section ahead and then the yellow would only show when shunt moves were in operation and the need for PLS disappears (since I cannot have PLS without expensive signals).  To provide a shunt route and an exit to main route I'd need two buttons I now realise.  I am going to need 2 Mini-panels for all these routes! I think they just daisy chain.

 

More food for thought - thanks again.

[imt]

You asked how do I control my signals. As I said before you need to program the signal to the point address you have already. With  TT signals you touch the two program contacts on the base of the signal. The Leds will flash. Enter your chosen address, then press Ok or whatever your command station allows to do this. The signal will then stop flashing and set to the colour to which way you want, if its wrong then reset the point and do it again. Sounds long winded but I assure you its seconds.

Wiring  TT signal, You can either use the contact fingers to the rails or , as I do is cut them off and solder two wires ( Both can be the same colour ) it makes no difference which one goes to the Bus. I feed my wires from underneath using the two small holes close to the base, The I feed those through suitable holes in the base board to the bus. That way you cant see them.

Now by sending a command to change a particular point the signal will change also, I have three TTs that all change together when I set the route it also tells me that trains that are in the hidden fiddle are protected and visa versa for trains that the route is set for.

Not only that but I get much pleasure watching all this happen, and that I DID IT.

 

Thanks for taking the time.  Much of it reinforces the things David at TT said to me, but I didn't always understand.  He had warned me of the need to cut off the "fingers", I hope my soldering is up to the task.  Thanks for your reassurance about being able to hide the wires. Do I understand that you can set the signal to either Red or Green to start with?  The instructions sort of say that but I hadn't really taken it on board.

 

You have done exactly what I want to do and your description is very helpful, but there is some added logic I need (would like?) to PREVENT changing the point/signal unless there fiddle yard is set up to accept the departing train. My layout is simple end to end stuff.

 

I am looking forward to having the feeling that you got - the "wow I did that!" feeling.  Thanks for your help getting me there.

[imt]

To ensure the signals are restored to danger after a move, I have been trying to look at ways of automatically returning them to danger after a short delay - which may vary depending on which part of the layout the represent - due to selective compression and fore-shortening etc ... as well as 'lines off stage'.

On the basis that most (other than automatic signals on plain line) spend most of their time at danger - only beng cleared by the authorised move - what is required is a 'reset' command  or 'monostable' type operation - which is available on some decoder modules, which defaults to red after say 10 seconds.

Ideally, if using software to issue the commands, any conflicting point movement or signalled path would immediately reset signals to red.

 

You have hit the nail on the head.  When the train leaves the platform, or pretty soon after, the signal needs to go to red again.  What is bugging me is the "when the train leaves".  Your idea of a simple timer ought to do the trick, but there will always be occasions when the train does not move within the timer.  Since my layout is a simple end to end BLT + fiddle yard, I was thinking along the lines of your "reset" command being a simple "train arrived" pushbutton on a control panel in either the BLT or the FY.  Susie has suggested a sensor too, if only I could get my brain round how I could feed that back into the signals.  The more expensive TT signals (their Sensor Signals) have such a sensor built in - but sadly they then go off and cycle though the aspects, which is good for an open layout with circling trains, but not what you want at a platform end.

 

Desperately trying to find a way of doing this.

[Suzie]

I think you will just have to bite the bullet and have an extra 2-pin plug to connect your minipanel to the IRDOT relay terminals. It will still be a neat installation. Either that or buy another mini-panel!

[imt]

I think you will just have to bite the bullet and have an extra 2-pin plug to connect your minipanel to the IRDOT relay terminals. It will still be a neat installation. Either that or buy another mini-panel!

 

Thanks Susie, put like that it's a bit difficult to ignore! But its not just the extra wire(s).  OK I confess I am a complete twit as far as electronics goes and probably frightened too if the truth really be told.  How do I change the output of a sensor into the effect of pressing a button on the Mini-panel?  The Mini-panel "input" as far as I can understand it is simply grounding a 5v supply, which is quite separate to the PowerCab bus power (by the way yet another input to the control panel!).  Sorry but, how do I do that, simply for an idiot?

[Phil S]

[a possible upto date solution for those with dcc controllers with sniffer inouts is included at the end !!!!]

 

LGBwith their MTS badged version of dcc, used to offer modules for automation which generated accessory commands when triggered - but these used the predecessor of expressnet© as their coummunications bus.... and would need the protocol converter to upgrade to expressnet and be usable within a lenz/roco/Hornby/etc system ....

 

Basically what these modules were, were early feedback modules; triggered by a track magnet or similar (eg optical sensor), but instead of sending the information over a dedicated feedback bus (remember dcc was in its infancy then)  they used the existing controller bus, and made it 'switch' something - which could either be a physical decoder/item such as a point or signal, OR, a virtual item (which was above 127 in their system) - and if you had their software program running ( still available independantly as stellewerke) then with the 'virtual event'  you could make it control a sequence of events or set a route etc.

 

It was 'commonly used' to automatically trigger a point and signal change on a reverse loop etc, or operate a station stop, or change to the next timetabled train. 

Massoth (who used to make LGBs electronics) make a  feedback module compatible with MTS or their own Dimax bus (not Expressnet unfortunately) - which can control 127 signals and 512 virtual MTS or 4000 Dimax events.

 

RR+CO s/w has a similar function built in to, at least some, of their versions (not my basic Rocomotion version).

A Raspberry Pi could probably be programmed to perfom this function - ideally for me outputting in expressnet bus serial protocol to appear as another controller.    IF you use accessory decoders which acept local inputs eg lenz LS150, massoth, and some others... then a RPi could simply use its GPI outputs to trigger the point/route/signal change ..... it is easy if not in dcc !!!!

 

Does anyone currently produce an input device** - such as the 'paco' dcc encoder which outputs directly in Expressnet??.  MERG make an encoder kit which produces dcc .... perhaps this could now be more usefully used via SNIFFER inputs on controllers like the Z21 .... so that any external set of switches / detectors could be used to feed-in to an otherwise dcc system - with the main system being aware of what is happening !!!!

[not suitable for use with latching switches - feedback of setting should be via leds decoderd from the main dcc system to be corect at all times]

 

**dccconcepts do a programmable box, but it needs an add-on to generate expressnet protocol output, at further cost

 

 

 

 

 

 

s

[Suzie]

Thanks Susie, put like that it's a bit difficult to ignore! But its not just the extra wire(s).  OK I confess I am a complete twit as far as electronics goes and probably frightened too if the truth really be told.  How do I change the output of a sensor into the effect of pressing a button on the Mini-panel?  The Mini-panel "input" as far as I can understand it is simply grounding a 5v supply, which is quite separate to the PowerCab bus power (by the way yet another input to the control panel!).  Sorry but, how do I do that, simply for an idiot?

 

You need an IRDOT2 and just connect terminals 3 and 4 to your minipanel as if it were a pushbutton (by plug in lead). The IRDOT just needs to be powered from 12V DC (terminals 1 and 6) and fitted under the track so it detects trains passing point 4 (can be just to the right of it on your diagram). Use that button input to fire a macro to set all signals to danger. Quite straightforward really.