West Highland Line V4, a 1980's West Highland Line layout

[young37215]

Not much done yesterday and little potential for operating because I glued the track from the viaduct to Arrochar which necessitated a line block. 

 

I struggled to find a cab end picture of 20045 showing the correct configuration of lights and discs for the early 1980's. I would like to get this as near accurate as I can because 045 and 085 were through steam pipe fitted at the time for use with a class 37 on the sleeper. What at is clear is that the non standard number and BR symbol were evident from 1980 until, in all probability, a Crewe works visit in late 1985 which resulted in a repaint. I don't know why I missed this but I did and am now pondering how best to change my version without destroying the numbers which I hope to reuse. Of course it is the best weathering of my renumbered locos which makes it doubly irritating to change things around. 

 

 

 

In amongst the teeth gnashing I fitted my remaining tail lamps to various freight wagons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by young37215

[thegreenhowards]

The lamps look good Rob.

 

With the 20 have you considered renumbering it to a similar number, e.g. 20048. I’ve no idea whether other ED versions had the standard numbering, but it might allow you to change just one or two digits rather than the whole number and BR symbol etc.

 

Andy

[billywhizz]

Lamps look effective Rob. Would the lamp be mounted centrally on hoppers bufferbeam? 
Enjoying the daily updates with a mix of work on the layout and running. The work around the viaduct is looking great! 

[6990WitherslackHall]

4 hours ago, young37215 said:

I struggled to find a cab end picture of 20045 showing the correct configuration of lights and discs for the early 1980's.

I thought that the 20s with discs fitted had them like D8000?

 

 

Speaking of which, found more photos of the loco plus a couple of D8096 at Scarborough. Interestingly, D8096 is missing it's bottom middle disc on its cab end because of the high intensity headlamp. 

 

 

 

 

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

I thought that the 20s with discs fitted had them like D8000?

 

 

Speaking of which, found more photos of the loco plus a couple of D8096 at Scarborough. Interestingly, D8096 is missing it's bottom middle disc on its cab end because of the high intensity headlamp. 

 

 

 

 

 

I presume when the disk headcodes were in use that they must have been used folding down with the light covered where the disk was closed so it showed 'correctly' for signalmen. Once the headcodes were no longer being used, it probably wont have mattered whether the disk was folded up or down. The earlier photo certainly doesn't look like a royal train with all 4 lights uncovered! ... ;)

 

[03060]

19 hours ago, young37215 said:

Not much done yesterday and little potential for operating because I glued the track from the viaduct to Arrochar which necessitated a line block. 

 

I struggled to find a cab end picture of 20045 showing the correct configuration of lights and discs for the early 1980's. I would like to get this as near accurate as I can because 045 and 085 were through steam pipe fitted at the time for use with a class 37 on the sleeper. What at is clear is that the non standard number and BR symbol were evident from 1980 until, in all probability, a Crewe works visit in late 1985 which resulted in a repaint. I don't know why I missed this but I did and am now pondering how best to change my version without destroying the numbers which I hope to reuse. Of course it is the best weathering of my renumbered locos which makes it doubly irritating to change things around. 

 

 

 

Hello Rob, I've been looking at photos of 20045 and I'm afraid it seems to fall into the 37111 category of having had lots of different guises in a short space of time, I can see 3 variations alone between 1982 and 83 ! 

The BR symbol moves from bonnet side to cabside and back again, the numerals are either high on the cab or lower down , plus the data panel. I don't think the larger numerals came in until the later half of the 80's when the loco was migrating further South (but might be wrong about this.)

Photos of it taken when fitted with a large snowplough (82/83) show some variations and also that somebody keeps fiddling with the disc / half moon positions as well.

 

This 1983 photo by Spannerman37025 might be a good reference as regards symbols and numerals for the usual 'through piped' operations that you tend to use your model on, although it's not what you wanted to see regarding a quick fix I'm afraid.

 

 

Merry Christmas to you and all of this fantastic thread's followers.

Looking forward to seeing next years developments.

Best wishes,

Ian.

[03060]

Screenshot of Pickclick Ebay slide (link doesn't work anymore.)

 

Unknown date, photographer or location but a clearer photo in what I think is the same status as the Spannerman37025 photo previously posted.

 

(Sorry but this is how I amuse myself when I wake up at 2am .... shift work's not good for sleep patterns .... nearly 6am now .... time for a nap ! LoL)

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by 03060
Correction.

[6990WitherslackHall]

16 hours ago, GordonC said:

I presume when the disk headcodes were in use that they must have been used folding down with the light covered where the disk was closed so it showed 'correctly' for signalmen. Once the headcodes were no longer being used, it probably wont have mattered whether the disk was folded up or down. The earlier photo certainly doesn't look like a royal train with all 4 lights uncovered! ... ;)

I thought discs would have been used in a similar way to locomotive lamps. For example, If one was hauling an express passenger, the left and right discs would be showing whereas the middle two would be folded down. 

 

But upon seeing my later photo of D8000's bonnet end, they can be folded up to show the actual light. So I'm kind of stuck on how they were used. 

[BoD]

57 minutes ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

But upon seeing my later photo of D8000's bonnet end, they can be folded up to show the actual light. So I'm kind of stuck on how they were used. 

I think the point is that, by the time of these photographs, they weren’t being used to indicate headcodes any more.  As long as there was some form of ‘marker’ lights showing it didn’t really matter how they were folded.  I am just guessing now that the most common, but not always,   would be all showing or just the two showing in express passenger formation as you described. Folding the discs up (or removing them completely) would maintain the full yellow end panel.

 

Just goes to show the importance of working to photographs where possible.

Edited December 24, 2022 by BoD

[young37215]

Glue has set on the track and all works well under test. Now to crack on with the scenic stuff in the hope that I can finish this section by the year end. 

 

On 23/12/2022 at 09:40, thegreenhowards said:

The lamps look good Rob.

 

With the 20 have you considered renumbering it to a similar number, e.g. 20048. I’ve no idea whether other ED versions had the standard numbering, but it might allow you to change just one or two digits rather than the whole number and BR symbol etc.

 

Andy

 

Only 2 class 20's had the through boiler pipes fitted for use with the sleepers which are the ones I want to model. This limits my options and is why I will stick with 20045; fortunately I have a spare 20045 transfer because Railtec supply 3 in a custom order which means I only have to recover 1 of the 2 existing ones. Worst case is I have to buy more transfers although I have numerous surplus/spare BR signs, warning flashes etc to copy the 1983 picture I managed to find of the front of 20045.  Of course this shows a completely different configuration of the discs and probably confirms that any configuration would not have been out of place. I'll see how easily the discs might be moved before deciding on a course of action.

 

 

20045 was stored in 1981/2 and only reinstated when chosen for the through steam pipe and I believe dual braking although I am not sure where this was carried out. From the pictures I have seen I do'nt think that any repainting was undertaken at this time hence the non standard numbers etc. remaining until a Crewe works visit in 1985.

 

On 23/12/2022 at 10:21, billywhizz said:

Lamps look effective Rob. Would the lamp be mounted centrally on hoppers bufferbeam? 
Enjoying the daily updates with a mix of work on the layout and running. The work around the viaduct is looking great! 

 

The lamp is offset and not quite as central as the picture suggests although I suspect that the lamp was hung off off of one of the stanchions in reality and as I was able to do on my Lima grain wagon rake which has a much chunkier stanchion. On a Bachmann grain wagon the stanchions are too thin to fix a lamp onto. I pondered where best to fit the lamp, what you see is the best I option that could find. Put another way, it is probably incorrectly located! 

 

 

On 23/12/2022 at 13:16, 6990WitherslackHall said:

I thought that the 20s with discs fitted had them like D8000?

 

As built in the late 50's this is correct but, as BOD points out above, this changed along the way and the lights/discs were rendered obsolete. How they appeared on a loco in the 1980's was very haphazard with many discs being removed. From a 1980's modelling perspective any variation can be used although personally I prefer to copy the layout from a specific picture such as the one above.   

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by young37215

[BoD]

41 minutes ago, young37215 said:

From a 1980's modelling perspective any variation can be used although personally I prefer to copy the layout from a specific picture such as the one above. 

I wonder if the discs were always able to be folded up as well as down or whether they were adapted to allow the lights to be seen but no white disc at the same time. Not really relevant to how we model it though.

[mallaig1983]

I would imagine that with train reporting codes no longer in use officialdom wouldn’t have been particularly overbearing on how the discs were set. I’m sure there were enthusiasts working at Eastfield who would probably change the set up to how they fancied seeing it as and when they had nothing better to do just for a bit of fun. As long as no rules were being broken it probably wasn’t frowned upon. 
 

To echo Ian’s sentiments above may I too wish you Rob a very Merry Christmas and to all the thread followers also.

 

Andy

[young37215]

Wishing everyone a merry christmas, a prosperous new year and lots of succesful modelling.

 

No work over the last few days, just running trains. Today's pictures show 37081 with the up sleeper at Ardlui.

 

 

 

 

 

Whilst looking for something else I found the answer to the question 'where does a tail lamp sit on an alumina hopper'! I'll adjust my two lamps to match this.

 

 

One thing led to another and I found another picture showing a tail lamp on an OBA which, I am pleased to report, matches where I have glued a lamp on one of my OBA's.   

 

 

[6990WitherslackHall]

On 24/12/2022 at 08:17, BoD said:

I wonder if the discs were always able to be folded up as well as down.

They were. 

[young37215]

 

Quickly following along behind the sleeper before the signal boxes shut for the evening, 27105 departs the sidings at Ardlui and heads south with empty Mermaid wagons. Prior to being able to run this I had to make adjustments to 2 of the servos that control the points in the yard. These were no longer activating the polarity microswitches where both servo brackets are wooden ones which I have always been suspicious of. A few minutes with some superglue and after reprogramming the servos, normal service was resumed. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ISW]

3 hours ago, young37215 said:

These were no longer activating the polarity microswitches where both servo brackets are wooden ones which I have always been suspicious of.

Rob,

 

Those wooden ones (the ones MegaPoints now sells?) do look nice and easy to assemble and do fix the servo properly in place with bolts/screws. I have only used the 'older' B&Q aluminium channel, whereby the servo is 'clamped' in place. I too had had a couple of troublesome assemblies, but this was down to my poor installation. The tolerances on alignment with the turnout have to be pretty close.

 

Servo / microswitch operation, though, has been very reliable on the whole.

 

Ian

[mallaig1983]

On 05/12/2022 at 09:58, 03060 said:

Slightly off the current topic Rob (but hopefully of interest) but the photos that you sometimes post on here and other threads from Flickr quite often lead me into looking at other work by the photographer (I can lose whole days with this LoL) and this one came up by MagLad which helps answer a long standing wagon conundrum for me.

 

 

Ever since noting a snippet of an International Ferry Van at Crianlarich in a 1981 photo on p.2 of Roger Siviter's 37s in the Highlands book I have been on the lookout for any more evidence of them on the WHL but until the last 2 weeks have drawn a blank. The photo caption in the book says the freight train that the wagon is in is Fort William bound and so I assumed that it must be Corpach bound but this photo and another one by Don Gatehouse suggest that the destination may actually have been Oban.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/51883089186/in/album-72157629133828311/

 

There are many different types of similar looking International ferry vans but which are actually quite different from each other, however the single ones in the photos on the WHL all appear to be of the same type of Belgian built 40t vans (dia. E.423) and appear to have been used around 1981-86 which begs the question that they 'may' have been used on a specific 'unknown' traffic flow to the continent ?

 

None of the photos show them any higher up the WHL than either Oban or Crianlarich and in the Don Gatehouse photo it is the only van in a train of timber empties. The only other ferry van I've seen on the WHL is part of a weed killing train and in Dutch livery and is a British built example.

 

 Sorry for the distraction (again) but I think that I'm turning into a bit of a 'wagon Nerd' .... and the wife just doesn't understand the importance of these things !! LoL

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

(NB Will add the link to the Don Gatehouse photo when I find it again.)

Sorry to cause another distraction to the thread Rob but having read the discussion on the ferry van earlier this month the van must have been in my conscience and just watching a video of the Wigan exhibition in 2018 I came across this example on a layout called Hebble Vale. No idea if it’s a kit or RTR and although an example is not really of use to me I thought I’d just share the pic on this thread so anyone who is interested and perhaps wants one could probably find a model with a bit of research. I not the roof detail is different on the ends on this example but it would be something different for anyone who wanted such. Sorry to take this up again if the matter has been resolved.

 

A question you asked earlier was how people strip the paint from the Bachmann loco bodies. I’ve seen Everard Jc use isopropyl alcohol to great effect on a Hornby class 31 and am currently testing this on a Bachmann 37. I’ve seen Phoenix Paints do a stripper that I think is called Strip it that has good reviews. £15 for a bottle though so I’m trying the isopropyl that I have at home to see how I get on. I’ll report back.

 

Andy

 

[young37215]

20 hours ago, ISW said:

Rob,

 

Those wooden ones (the ones MegaPoints now sells?) do look nice and easy to assemble and do fix the servo properly in place with bolts/screws. I have only used the 'older' B&Q aluminium channel, whereby the servo is 'clamped' in place. I too had had a couple of troublesome assemblies, but this was down to my poor installation. The tolerances on alignment with the turnout have to be pretty close.

 

Servo / microswitch operation, though, has been very reliable on the whole.

 

Ian

 

The wooden brackets I have are not Megapoints supplied but I suspect that all wooden brackets share the similar features in that they are not as robust as metal (or aluminium in my case) which makes them more vulnerable to flexing/moving over time. In my case the glue that fixes an 'arm' holding the microswitch to the rest of the bracket had come loose. Re-gluing has solved the problem for now. 

 

  

10 hours ago, mallaig1983 said:

A question you asked earlier was how people strip the paint from the Bachmann loco bodies. I’ve seen Everard Jc use isopropyl alcohol to great effect on a Hornby class 31 and am currently testing this on a Bachmann 37. I’ve seen Phoenix Paints do a stripper that I think is called Strip it that has good reviews. £15 for a bottle though so I’m trying the isopropyl that I have at home to see how I get on. I’ll report back.

 

My re-spray project has ground to a halt over the last few days. I want to remove the glazing as a first step and despite an extended stay in the freezer, this is refusing to budge. I also intend giving IPA a try as a first step in paint removal because I have a large bottle available. I am sure I'll return to this in the coming days and will update when I have moved forward.

 

A new day begins with 37112 heading the down sleeper seen at Crianlarich. For variety I am using the Mk3 sleeper and ETHEL although space constraints limit the sleeper to a single vehicle. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by young37215

[ISW]

14 hours ago, mallaig1983 said:

A question you asked earlier was how people strip the paint from the Bachmann loco bodies. I’ve seen Everard Jc use isopropyl alcohol to great effect on a Hornby class 31 and am currently testing this on a Bachmann 37.

Andy,

 

Didn't Everard Junction also use Dettol to good effect? It took a long time, but didn't affect the plastic body.

 

Ian

[thegreenhowards]

5 minutes ago, ISW said:

Andy,

 

Didn't Everard Junction also use Dettol to good effect? It took a long time, but didn't affect the plastic body.

 

Ian

I’ve used ‘Stripmagic’ from (I think) deluxe materials. It’s a bit slow but does the job without affecting the plastic.

 

[young37215]

2 hours ago, ISW said:

Andy,

 

Didn't Everard Junction also use Dettol to good effect? It took a long time, but didn't affect the plastic body.

 

Ian

 

Everard's video that I watched used IPA to good effect in removing Hornby paint. I will give this a go as I have some and hope that it is as effective on Bachmann's paint. Before I do anything I need to find a way to get the glazing, nose ends and other detail bits off of the loco but I am currently too busy playing trains.

 

The first Glasgow to Oban train of the day is seen on the southern approach to Garelochead headed by 37012  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CameronL]

10 hours ago, young37215 said:

Everard's video that I watched used IPA to good effect in removing Hornby paint.

IPA? India Pale Ale? I didn't know it removes paint. I thought it only removed money, memory and consciousness. 

 

Seriously, absolutely love this thread. The atmosphere of Scotland is spot on. If you could make it misty  it would be perfect.

 

Best wishes 

 

Cam

Edited December 28, 2022 by CameronL
Auto correct made me look like a real keyboard klutz

[mallaig1983]

I found pressure from both sides of the glazing did the trick. Leverage from behind with a screwdriver and pressure from the front with my thumb removed the glazing. It will ‘pop’ and I thought I’d broken it but it was still in one piece. Nose ends pop off with pressure. Admittedly in my case it was on a spare body shell in the spares box so at the time (some months ago) it was a case of if I can use this then great but having removed these parts I would have the confidence to do it again. 
The disclaimer being that it worked for me on my example that was made in a certain factory at a certain time using a certain glue etc etc. Don’t apply more pressure than you’re comfortable with. I hope you will be as pleasantly surprised as I was.

 

More wonderful photos Rob, thanks for sharing. Right, one more cuppa and I’m away to the modelling bench.

[young37215]

21 hours ago, mallaig1983 said:

I found pressure from both sides of the glazing did the trick. Leverage from behind with a screwdriver and pressure from the front with my thumb removed the glazing. It will ‘pop’ and I thought I’d broken it but it was still in one piece. Nose ends pop off with pressure. Admittedly in my case it was on a spare body shell in the spares box so at the time (some months ago) it was a case of if I can use this then great but having removed these parts I would have the confidence to do it again. 
The disclaimer being that it worked for me on my example that was made in a certain factory at a certain time using a certain glue etc etc. Don’t apply more pressure than you’re comfortable with. I hope you will be as pleasantly surprised as I was.

 

More wonderful photos Rob, thanks for sharing. Right, one more cuppa and I’m away to the modelling bench.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience, my bodyshell has overnighted in the freezer and I will have another attempt at removing the glazing and other bits later this morning. Worst case is I will use Maskol to cover the galzing and re-spray with it in situ. The glue appears particularly well applied, the nose ends usually come away far more easily in my experience, too much so in one or two cases!

 

The offsetting working to yesterdays pictures, the first Oban to Glasgow of the day headed by 37022 is seen arriving at Crianlarich. The two trains are booked to pass at Arrochar.

 

 

 

 

 

[ikcdab]

On 26/12/2022 at 11:13, ISW said:

Rob,

 

Those wooden ones (the ones MegaPoints now sells?) do look nice and easy to assemble and do fix the servo properly in place with bolts/screws. I have only used the 'older' B&Q aluminium channel, whereby the servo is 'clamped' in place. I too had had a couple of troublesome assemblies, but this was down to my poor installation. The tolerances on alignment with the turnout have to be pretty close.

 

Servo / microswitch operation, though, has been very reliable on the whole.

 

Ian

I have tried, and indeed I am using, some of the megapoints servo mounts.  With my 9mm baseboard plus 3mm cork and the configuration of the mount, I think that they hold the servo too far below the tiebar. This means that the operating wire is long and the servo has to move to its extremes to operate the blades effectively. For my later installations I made some brackets from plasticard that hold the servo much closer beneath the baseboard. The operating spring wire is much shorter and the servo doesn't have to move so far.  I think it works better.  This is with handbuilt track.  If you are using points with over centre springs then it is much less of a problem.

Ian