West Highland Line V4, a 1980's West Highland Line layout

[young37215]

19 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Hi Rob,

 

I’m getting interested in Sealions following Ellis Clark’s announcement of a 7mm version yesterday and have been going back through your excellent selection of photos. What livery do you think those wagons are in? It looks like ‘engineers’ grime’ (!) but I presume there must be a livery underneath. It doesn’t look like Dutch, so I’m assuming olive green. Does that sound right?

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

I am in agreement with Ian, the most likely livery would be olive green. Most of my engineering wagon fleet are olive green and heavily weathered because the engineers fleet was low down the priority list for BR to maintain. 

 

The new consumables and tool engineers train moved south yesterday and is pictured at Ardlui en route back to Glasgow.

 

 

 

 

 

[young37215]

I spent several hours wiring up 20 droppers on newly laid track to the power BUS yesterday. It is time consuming task and that has no visible effect on the layout but it does result in improved, smoother running. The Dapol track cleaning car also had a run out as I soldered away, it was repeatedly topped up with contact cleaner and left the track with a shine on the railhead. The onboard vacum picked up a fair amount of rubbish too.

 

All in all this was good preparation for the coming running season. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by young37215

[young37215]

Another recent video, slowly I am working out angles and how best to use the tripod. 

 

 

[young37215]

Whilst researching the frontage of Arrochar station I came across an interesting consist at Arrochar mid 80's of a spoil train comprised of Turbot, unkown (SPA wagon?) and Grampus. A version of this is likely to appear on WHL4 at some stage. 

 

 

The view I was really after, the underpass and surrounding area from the 1980's. It is proving challenging to find era specific pictures of eastern embankment and the station approach.

 

 

An early 1980's view of the northern approach to Arrochar, my particular interest is the eastern (right hand side of the picture) where I want to get the profile of the land and the vegetation set in my mind for WHL4. The vegetation was occassionally cut back in the 1980's, somewhere around 1986 there appears tp have been a serious culling. Fortunately for me this is after my time window meaning I can get away with a rough, overgrown and tree lined approach to the station. The irritating learning form the picture is the inclusion of cable troughing out to the home signal; I was blissfully unaware of this until now!

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Rob,

 

I hope you don’t mind me hijacking your thread to mention that I have started a thread for my attempt at Glenfinnan in O gauge. As this seems to be the go to meeting place for WHL line modellers, I hope some of your readers will find this interesting. A link is below.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[BoD]

7 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

 

 

 

I know there's a lot of photographic compression of perspective here but that looks far too close for comfort.

[03060]

22 hours ago, young37215 said:

Whilst researching the frontage of Arrochar station I came across an interesting consist at Arrochar mid 80's of a spoil train comprised of Turbot, unkown (SPA wagon?) and Grampus. A version of this is likely to appear on WHL4 at some stage. 

 

 

I think that the middle wagon is a Winkle (ex22t Plate) and whilst not certain think that the rear wagon is a wooden bodied 3 plank, possibly a Haddock or a Sole .... whatever, it will make another interesting train.

 

I do love these 'Fishkind' wagon names, though what they've got to do with engineering, I'll never know !! LoL

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited August 31, 2022 by 03060
More waffle added.

[lmsforever]

You have captured the feel of the West Highland and Crianllarich its good see a Scottish layout and class 37,s you have got the countryside right as well. 

[young37215]

Fort William has been lifted onto the workbench for some upgrading work particularly on the electrics. First up was the addition of a new, dedicated servo controller with 12 outputs. The pointwork only required 5 outputs leaving the remainder available for other tasks. I have long had in my mind servo driven uncouplers to enable hands free uncoupling and finally have got around to experimenting with how this might work. 

 

I pinned an off cut of track on a piece of baseboard. First up was a 1mm hole drilled through the centre of a sleeper and the baseboard. An actuator of 0.64mm piano wire was fabricated into an L shape and glued to a 30 x 12 mm piece of plasticard. The wire is fed through the baseboard with the plasticard sitting on the sleepers when out of use. 2 coupled wagons were placed above the plasticard and the wire was hand lifted from the underside causing the wagons to uncouple. All seems to work although the 30mm length plasticard is 50% longer than it needs to be. Easy enough to trim this back, manual operation seems easier than I had expected famous last words.

 

The successful trial has convinced me to install a copy on platforms 1 and 2 at Fort William. I have no concerns about how the servo will actuate the wire because this is virtually identical to automating signals. Whether it will be as simple as I found the trial only time will tell.

 

Fort William on the workbench, platform lamps are being glued upright.

Test track with hole through sleeper and baseboard drilled

uncoupler comprised of fabricated 0.64mm wire with plasticard attachment

 uncoupler in off position

uncoupler in on position

 

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by young37215

[03060]

Hello Rob, this looks effective, particularly in the awkwardness of getting to Platform 2 with a manual uncoupling tool, will you be bothering with a device for the siding where the sleeper stock rests or is that easier to reach ?

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited September 11, 2022 by 03060
Wrong platform !

[ISW]

7 hours ago, young37215 said:

uncoupler comprised of fabricated 0.64mm wire with plasticard attachment

Rob,

 

That's rather neat. I like it, but it's not suitable for me with Kadee couplers. Ah well.

 

I'd change the 'L' of piano wire to make the top 'leg' into a zig-zag (or similar) to offer some lateral support as well as longitudinal. I can see the glue of your current design failing in 'twist', and it'd be a pain to re-glue insitu. I'm guessing you'd be using a thinner, narrower, black, plastic in the final design?

 

Ian

[thegreenhowards]

8 hours ago, young37215 said:

Fort William has been lifted onto the workbench for some upgrading work particularly on the electrics. First up was the addition of a new, dedicated servo controller with 12 outputs. The pointwork only required 5 outputs leaving the remainder available for other tasks. I have long had in my mind servo driven uncouplers to enable hands free uncoupling and finally have got around to experimenting with how this might work. 

 

I pinned an off cut of track on a piece of baseboard. First up was a 1mm hole drilled through the centre of a sleeper and the baseboard. An actuator of 0.64mm piano wire was fabricated into an L shape and glued to a 30 x 12 mm piece of plasticard. The wire is fed through the baseboard with the plasticard sitting on the sleepers when out of use. 2 coupled wagons were placed above the plasticard and the wire was hand lifted from the underside causing the wagons to uncouple. All seems to work although the 30mm length plasticard is 50% longer than it needs to be. Easy enough to trim this back, manual operation seems easier than I had expected famous last words.

 

The successful trial has convinced me to install a copy on platforms 1 and 2 at Fort William. I have no concerns about how the servo will actuate the wire because this is virtually identical to automating signals. Whether it will be as simple as I found the trial only time will tell.

 

Fort William on the workbench, platform lamps are being glued upright.

Test track with hole through sleeper and baseboard drilled

uncoupler comprised of fabricated 0.64mm wire with plasticard attachment

 uncoupler in off position

uncoupler in on position

 

 

I have some similar uncouplers on my 00 sold by Heathcote electronics and using a servo to push up a rectangle of plastic. They use clear plastic to render then less obtrusive.

[mallaig1983]

2 hours ago, ISW said:

Rob,

 

That's rather neat. I like it, but it's not suitable for me with Kadee couplers. Ah well.

 

I'd change the 'L' of piano wire to make the top 'leg' into a zig-zag (or similar) to offer some lateral support as well as longitudinal. I can see the glue of your current design failing in 'twist', and it'd be a pain to re-glue insitu. I'm guessing you'd be using a thinner, narrower, black, plastic in the final design?

 

Ian

Ian, do you use the Kadee under track magnets? They’re really effective 

[03060]

Apologies for another Engineers wagon intrusion but I came across this 1984 Crianlarich photo by Steve 37027 on Flickr this morning which when you look to the left of the loco reveals another shot of the 20t brake van with the white (grey) undercoat paint slapped on it which we saw at Ardlui on the previous page in the thread. In front of this is a Lamprey ballast / spoil wagon which I've not seen on the line before and is another example of those possibly 'one off' incursions onto the WHL ... which could help justify those Rule 1 purchases ! LoL.

 

 

I'm still finding Flickr albums to rival those by Spannerman 37025 and Irishswissernie, the latest being by Steve 37027 and BREIDY 1986 who, when you read the captions in his 400+ West Highland photo file spent a lot of time on the WHL in the 1980s either riding for free, getting unofficial cab rides (including driving !) and racing around the highland roads at hair raising speeds to get photos with his 'Chauffeur' .... none other than Mr. Spannerman .... both went on to be WHL drivers !

 

Sorry again for the intrusion, Rob, but thought it might be of interest.

Regards,

Ian.

[ISW]

11 hours ago, mallaig1983 said:

Ian, do you use the Kadee under track magnets? They’re really effective 

Unfortunately I didn't install any while I was tracklaying and subsequent ballasting. My 'excuse' is that I hadn't 'operated' the layout to any degree and, thus, didn't know where I'd need said magnets. I gather there are retrofitting options, which I'll be investigating in due course.

 

Ian

[young37215]

20 hours ago, 03060 said:

Hello Rob, this looks effective, particularly in the awkwardness of getting to Platform 1 with a manual uncoupling tool, will you be bothering with a device for the siding where the sleeper stock rests or is that easier to reach ?

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

If I can master the uncoupler I will be installing a number around the layout, 3 at Fort William for Platforms 1 and 2 and the siding. In addition I want 1 at Mallaig and, depending on how successful they are, I can envisage 2 more at each of Arrochar and Ardlui so that wagons can be prototypically attached and detatched as required. 

 

13 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have some similar uncouplers on my 00 sold by Heathcote electronics and using a servo to push up a rectangle of plastic. They use clear plastic to render then less obtrusive.

 

Whilst looking for options I came across Heathcote which appears similar to what I have designed. The use of clear plastic had not occurred to me before, I had intended to paint the plasticard with sleeper grime to reduce its impact. I might trial some clear plastic to see how this compares.

 

14 hours ago, ISW said:

I'd change the 'L' of piano wire to make the top 'leg' into a zig-zag (or similar) to offer some lateral support as well as longitudinal. I can see the glue of your current design failing in 'twist', and it'd be a pain to re-glue insitu.

 

As part of my experimentation I fabricated a second wire actuator with a horse shoe style on the top leg to get more wire to attach to a smaller 20 mm x 10mm piece of plasticard. The wire requires an offset hole in the sleeper whereas the original was centered so as to allow the plasticard to sit in the middle of the track. There was no obvious consequence of the offset actuator which seems the better way to go. In both instances I used Superglue to bond the wire to the plasticard, on reflection I probably should use a different glue such as an epoxy resin to get the best bond I can achieve. 

 

 

The offset auctuating wire appears to have no effect on the uncouplers effectiveness. 

 

 

[young37215]

Not much activity at present with Fort William, too many other demands on my time. I recently received some more aluminium ingots from a very helpful supplier on Ebay who was kind enough to cut the 600mm bar I bought into 80mm pieces which make excellent wagon loads. A trial run was required, 37012 on 7D19 was filmed on the approach to Crianlarich, the drivelock function on the Legoman sound file was very effective in allowing the lococ to power up on the gradient into the station without the train speeding up. 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by young37215

[young37215]

A few still pictures of 37012 and 7D19 which show the aluminium ingots a little more prominantly.

 

 

 

 

 

[young37215]

A new Flickr site for me found by 03060 is BREIDY1986 who appears to have spent part of his covid lockdown digitising his old 1980's celuloids. It's well worth a visit if you like the WHL, there are a number of pictures from locations not typically seen. Below are several pictures of engineers trains which I will be copying on WHL4, the first from 06/82 comprised of class 20 and multiple Salmon wagons with cranes for discharging replacement rail. The location is Rhu, note the appearance of concrete sleepers which is as early as I have seen them on the WHL and the weld halfway along the right hand rail indicating that CWR has arrived.

 

 

 

1983 Arrochar with 37179 on an engineers train of ballast comprised of a Catfish and unkown ballast hopper with ZHV classification. I thought code ZHV was for spoil wagons, not ballast! 

 

 

Forwards to late 1985 and 37027 arrives at Ardlui with what appears an engineers train of Salmon, 3 plank wood based wagon and guards van. All very 'copyable' for WHL4.

 

 

[03060]

7 hours ago, young37215 said:

A new Flickr site for me found by 03060 is BREIDY1986 who appears to have spent part of his covid lockdown digitising his old 1980's celuloids. It's well worth a visit if you like the WHL, there are a number of pictures from locations not typically seen. Below are several pictures of engineers trains which I will be copying on WHL4, the first from 06/82 comprised of class 20 and multiple Salmon wagons with cranes for discharging replacement rail. The location is Rhu, note the appearance of concrete sleepers which is as early as I have seen them on the WHL and the weld halfway along the right hand rail indicating that CWR has arrived.

 

 

 

1983 Arrochar with 37179 on an engineers train of ballast comprised of a Catfish and unkown ballast hopper with ZHV classification. I thought code ZHV was for spoil wagons, not ballast! 

 

 

Forwards to late 1985 and 37027 arrives at Ardlui with what appears an engineers train of Salmon, 3 plank wood based wagon and guards van. All very 'copyable' for WHL4.

 

 

 

Morning Rob,

 

Glad that you've found BREIDY 1986's Flickr site and had time to study his WHL folder, it's taken me several weeks to to look through it .... twice !

 

Regarding the photos that you've picked out here (which I have to say were in my 'favourites' selection also)  I would like to add the following comments, please :

 

Photos 1 & 2 - I wondered if this was around the area where the freight train derailed at Rhu with the old wooden bodied china clay wagons and oil tankers piling up and spilling their loads into the nearby field ? Which might account for the track renewal, I think that there is a comment about this on Spannerman's site.

 

Photo 3 - The first wagon is a Mackeral which I believe were coded ZMV, although I have to agree it looks very much like ZHV.

 

Photo 4 - I think that the flat wagon is one of the superbly long and low Sturgeon wagons that were built either with or without sides, this being the first non-sided one that I've come across on the WHL, I've seen sided versions sneaking into photos at Bridge of Orchy and Tom-na-Faire. The wagon between it and the brakevan is a Grampus. This photo has cost me another £50 .... adding another wagon to my collection when it arrives tomorrow .... just need a layout to run them on now !

 

 

Hope that this helps,

Regards,

Ian.

Edited September 21, 2022 by 03060

[BoD]

 

Cambrian do a kit for the Sturgeon.

If you do decide to do one be prepared to go boss eyed and half mad with all of those door bangs...  and as for the grab rails if you do a version with sides... 'nuff said.  Other than that, a nice kit.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by BoD

[young37215]

23 hours ago, 03060 said:

 

Morning Rob,

 

Glad that you've found BREIDY 1986's Flickr site and had time to study his WHL folder, it's taken me several weeks to to look through it .... twice !

 

Regarding the photos that you've picked out here (which I have to say were in my 'favourites' selection also)  I would like to add the following comments, please :

 

Photos 1 & 2 - I wondered if this was around the area where the freight train derailed at Rhu with the old wooden bodied china clay wagons and oil tankers piling up and spilling their loads into the nearby field ? Which might account for the track renewal, I think that there is a comment about this on Spannerman's site.

 

Photo 3 - The first wagon is a Mackeral which I believe were coded ZMV, although I have to agree it looks very much like ZHV.

 

Photo 4 - I think that the flat wagon is one of the superbly long and low Sturgeon wagons that were built either with or without sides, this being the first non-sided one that I've come across on the WHL, I've seen sided versions sneaking into photos at Bridge of Orchy and Tom-na-Faire. The wagon between it and the brakevan is a Grampus. This photo has cost me another £50 .... adding another wagon to my collection when it arrives tomorrow .... just need a layout to run them on now !

 

 

Hope that this helps,

Regards,

Ian.

 

Thanks Ian, my lack of familiarity with engineers wagons is very evident. Your hypothesis on the reasons for the track relaying does'nt work, the relay is 6/82 and the derailment 8/82. If there is any relationship between the two events then I suspect that a twist on the newly laid rail from consolidating ballast might have caused the derailment notwithstanding a few comments that I have seen stating the cause was a wagon defect. Back then RAIB style reports did'nt exist so I guess we will never know for sure.

 

I will settle for my solitary Salmon wagon and an occassional BDA for the transportation of rail around WHL4 as I am not a kit building fan and have limited additional storage space for a copy of every wagon seen on the WHL. To that extent I will limit my engineering fleet to vacum braked wagons despite the influx of air braked wagons into the engineers department through the early 1980's. BREIDY1986's Craigendoran shows an air braked example of an ex OBA renamed as a Bass engaged in the Craigendoran junction remodelling in 1984. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by young37215

[03060]

2 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

Thanks Ian, my lack of familiarity with engineers wagons is very evident. Your hypothesis on the reasons for the track relaying does'nt work, the relay is 6/82 and the derailment 8/82. If there is any relationship between the two events then I suspect that a twist on the newly laid rail from consolidating ballast might have caused the derailment notwithstanding a few comments that I have seen stating the cause was a wagon defect. Back then RAIB style reports did'nt exist so I guess we will never know for sure.

 

I will settle for my solitary Salmon wagon and an occassional BDA for the transportation of rail around WHL4 as I am not a kit building fan and have limited additional storage space for a copy of every wagon seen on the WHL. To that extent I will limit my engineering fleet to vacum braked wagons despite the influx of air braked wagons into the engineers department through the early 1980's. BREIDY1986's Craigendoran shows an air braked example of an ex OBA renamed as a Bass engaged in the Craigendoran junction remodelling in 1984. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shows you how good my powers of observation really are .... I totally missed that whole album !! LoL

 

Regards,

Ian.

[03060]

On 21/06/2022 at 16:36, mallaig1983 said:

The vents on the roof are offset to the compartment side if you look from above. I’ve always found it hard to tell them apart from a trackside angle but if it’s a video a careful eye will notice it’s easier to see through a TSO as it passes. Other than that I think you need to be lucky enough to see the number. 

I’m thinking a lot of peoples memories off compartments were in the BSK or BCK vehicles but although it rare an SK appears feasible.

 

Purely an observation and not wanting to reignite the great coaching stock debate of p.56 & 57 but I've just been watching the excellent runround scenes again from DVTs Class 37 Tribute DVDs and noticed that the Mallaig train in these 1984  scenes was made up of an SK, BSK, SO, SK, SO with the Observation coach being swapped from end to end of the other stock for the reverse direction. I was concerned that I also had too many SKs in my collection but maybe not.

 

The main reason for posting though (and relates to the operation of Fort William in model form as well as in reality) is that the 2nd movement in the sequence in Vol.2 has always puzzled me slightly in that 37039 appears from siding 1 and reverses into platform 1 from where it disappears completely, next scene has 37178 appearing at the same position in platform 1 and completes all of the following stock shunting movements, I presume that 37039 has shunted the Mallaig train from platform 1 to siding 1 (releasing 37178) before 37112 is seen leaving platform 2 in the opening shots and has headed up to Tom-na-Faire depot.

 

My question being .... can movements from Fort William station up to Mallaig Junction 'only' be made under the directives of the colour light signals from either platforms 1 or 2 and not directly from either of the sidings ?

 

Open to anybody who understands these things !

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited September 24, 2022 by 03060
Sequence re-written.

[mallaig1983]

9 minutes ago, 03060 said:

 

Purely an observation and not wanting to reignite the great coaching stock debate of p.56 & 57 but I've just been watching the excellent runround scenes again from DVTs Class 37 Tribute DVDs and noticed that the Mallaig train in these 1984  scenes was made up of an SK, BSK, SO, SK, SO with the Observation coach being swapped from end to end of the other stock for the reverse direction. I was concerned that I also had too many SKs in my collection but maybe not.

 

The main reason for posting though (and relates to the operation of Fort William in model form as well as in reality) is that the 2nd movement in the sequence in Vol.2 has always puzzled me slightly in that 37039 appears from 'nowhere' and reverses into platform 1 from where it disappears completely, next scene has 37178 appearing at the same position in platform 1 and completes all of the following stock shunting movements, I presume that 37039 has been released from the train seen leaving platform 2 in the opening shots and has headed up to Tom-na-Faire depot.

 

My question being .... can movements from Fort William station up to Mallaig Junction 'only' be made under the directives of the colour light signals from either platforms 1 or 2 and not directly from either of the sidings ?

 

Open to anybody who understands these things !

 

Regards,

Ian.

Good question 🤔