Model Rail/Rapido Trains GER/LNER 'J70' 0-6-0T 'Project Toby'

[dibber25]

Check out Bill's latest post about the Locomotion GNR Stirling single. It's nearing completion in the Rapido factory. After that comes the next stage of the Model Rail 'J70'. Have you got your order placed yet? And in a few weeks' time we've got, not one, but two new locomotive projects to announce! 

[teaky]

Check out Bill's latest post about the Locomotion GNR Stirling single. It's nearing completion in the Rapido factory. After that comes the next stage of the Model Rail 'J70'. Have you got your order placed yet? And in a few weeks' time we've got, not one, but two new locomotive projects to announce! 

Well, that's the frothing for May kicked off then! 

[The Stationmaster]

Check out Bill's latest post about the Locomotion GNR Stirling single. It's nearing completion in the Rapido factory. After that comes the next stage of the Model Rail 'J70'. Have you got your order placed yet? And in a few weeks' time we've got, not one, but two new locomotive projects to announce! 

 

Ordered last week thank you Chris - the version with fully visible valve gear was irresistible.

[dibber25]

Ordered last week thank you Chris - the version with fully visible valve gear was irresistible.

 

I know. I'm going to NEED one of each! (CJL)

[MarkSG]

Yeah, I've ordered one with visible gear and one with skirts as well. But, given the small number of loco types that worked the W&U, it makes sense to buy a couple (with different numbers) anyway so that you can have more realistic operation. A single, never-changing loco would be too minimalist, but, unlike most lines, there's no scope for the occasional out-of-area interloper. Being at least able to alternate between a pair will make things more interesting.

[dibber25]

Yeah, I've ordered one with visible gear and one with skirts as well. But, given the small number of loco types that worked the W&U, it makes sense to buy a couple (with different numbers) anyway so that you can have more realistic operation. A single, never-changing loco would be too minimalist, but, unlike most lines, there's no scope for the occasional out-of-area interloper. Being at least able to alternate between a pair will make things more interesting.

 

....and there's at least one photo of a loco with its skirts missing, working the W&U, so it did happen. I suspect if they had an altercation with a road vehicle and didn't have time to straighten the metalwork, they would just take the skirts off. (CJL)

[wiggoforgold]

I've got one on order; I only need one; mine will have skirts. The valve gear looks nice. Good point about the need to ring the changes; I...must.....resist......

[Chris116]

I...must.....resist......

J70's are designed by the Borg!

 

Resistance is futile!

[Edwardian]

Resistance is easy whilst scanning the distant horizon for any sign of a GER-liveried version in the offing.

 

I keep hoping ...

[Edwardian]

Same, I would buy at least a couple of them in a heartbeat if done in GER livery.

Alex

 

It still seems an obvious choice and an odd omission to me, perhaps because I still can't get my head around the notion that there will be at least 150 purchases of each of the much of a muchness 10 LNE/BR variants, and yet it is reckoned that there would not be 150 sales of a single GER option.

 

If the magazine can't carry the risk, how about opening up the model to a third partner to underwrite a pre-Grouping version? Or agree to let Rapido and/or Rapido and A N Other taking a punt without Model Rail, if the magazine still lacks the appetite?  Otherwise the necessarily risk-averse business model of the magazine tends to operate to guarantee that no pre-Grouping version can ever be released for so long as the good people at MR remain convinced that it would be a slow mover.

 

Mind you, I remain entirely unconvinced that it would be a significant risk.  Blue locos always sell, and we seem to have an endless stream of USA tank and Sentinel liveries, many necessarily far more obscure than the standard GER livery for the tram loco. 

 

Still, while disappointing and, to my mind, not clearly justified, the decision not to produce a GE version only relates to the first batch of 10 variants.   I can be infinitely patient when I know something is coming, but here I will have to be content to wait and see if the next set of liveries includes at least one GE version.

 

So, I hope the initial release goes well and prompts some more interesting liveries for this model in the future. After all, after brown and blue there was crimson and grey!

 

Here's hoping.

[dibber25]

It still seems an obvious choice and an odd omission to me, perhaps because I still can't get my head around the notion that there will be at least 150 purchases of each of the much of a muchness 10 LNE/BR variants, and yet it is reckoned that there would not be 150 sales of a single GER option.

 

If the magazine can't carry the risk, how about opening up the model to a third partner to underwrite a pre-Grouping version? Or agree to let Rapido and/or Rapido and A N Other taking a punt without Model Rail, if the magazine still lacks the appetite?  Otherwise the necessarily risk-averse business model of the magazine tends to operate to guarantee that no pre-Grouping version can ever be released for so long as the good people at MR remain convinced that it would be a slow mover.

 

Mind you, I remain entirely unconvinced that it would be a significant risk.  Blue locos always sell, and we seem to have an endless stream of USA tank and Sentinel liveries, many necessarily far more obscure than the standard GER livery for the tram loco. 

 

Still, while disappointing and, to my mind, not clearly justified, the decision not to produce a GE version only relates to the first batch of 10 variants.   I can be infinitely patient when I know something is coming, but here I will have to be content to wait and see if the next set of liveries includes at least one GE version.

 

So, I hope the initial release goes well and prompts some more interesting liveries for this model in the future. After all, after brown and blue there was crimson and grey!

 

Here's hoping.

 

In the interests of keeping the price down it is not possible to involve others in the project. The first batch of liveries are based on the research that was done beforehand and GER was the least well supported. It is likely there will be other batches and different liveries at a later date. (CJL)

[Edwardian]

Thanks for responding, Chris

 

The first batch of liveries are based on the research that was done beforehand and GER was the least well supported.

 

The more attractive/ornate the livery, the less it fits in with most people's plans, given that most people think in terms of the 50s-60s groove.

 

For this reason, had Hornby asked if people would prefer a small industrial in, say, an NCB livery, or that of an Edwardian biscuit factory, I doubt they would have received enough support to justify going into production with the Huntley & Palmer Peckett.  And yet ... 

 

 

It is likely there will be other batches and different liveries at a later date. (CJL)

 

Fingers crossed then...

[NHY 581]

Even this confirmed L&SWR/Midland/S&DJR modeller would be tempted by a GER livery.....

 

 

Rob.

[Edwardian]

Even this confirmed L&SWR/Midland/S&DJR modeller would be tempted by a GER livery.....

 

 

Rob.

 

Well, I'd say help Model Rail to don its brave pants and include GER blue in the next batch of liveries, lest we lose out a second time.  We were invited to email our interest in liveries before.  I know of quite a number of people who confirmed that they had asked for GE brown and blue, and some who indicated that they would put this as a preference as well as grey/crimson.  I am not aware that any of them ever heard anything further, - I certainly didn't - but my anecdotal impression was that there was a reasonable ground swell at the time.  I remain bewildered at the thought that each and everyone of those variations on a theme we now see was better supported, but there you are.  My problem is that, fundamentally, I find it very odd that anyone would ever produce such a model without including the GE option. We all have our prejudices, I suppose.

 

Perhaps it is time to start emailing Model Rail again, in time for a decision on the next batch?

 

In the meantime, it is an absolutely lovely model. You cannot really, I think, gain an adequate impression of the combination of refinement with a sense of solidity from just the photographs. I won't go as far as saying a little frisson passed through me when I was handed one at York, but it was a moment, and not just due to my great fear of dropping it!

 

I expect that customers will be well satisfied with these.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Edwardian

[Steamport Southport]

Do you really expect to sell hundreds of GER versions? I think they're pushing it a bit with the amount of LNER versions personally.

 

It's worth remembering which USA tanks sold out and were reissued and which ones are still in stock. All the BR and SR ones sold well, not so much the other liveries. Maybe they are hesitant due to all those others that they can't get rid of. I reckon there are more NCB and LMR modellers than GER. At least you can get RTR rolling stock for those.

 

 

What GER stock can you get? You're struggling with kits. If you can build any of the GER kits which are available, then you can paint a J70.

 

Fox transfers do the transfers. Plenty of places do the paint.

 

https://fox-transfers.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/index/?q=GER+GREAT+EASTERN+RAILWAY+CRESTS&scale=2235

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[MarkSG]

What GER stock can you get? You're struggling with kits. If you can build any of the GER kits which are available, then you can paint a J70.

 

I think that's a very good point. Pre-grouping RTR is a bit of a chicken and egg situation. The people already modelling the pre-grouping era will, by and large, already be happy to kitbuild or scratchbuild. Conversely, the people who buy RTR generally want more than just a loco - they expect to have suitable rolling stock available to go with it. That principle may occasionally be broken for something particularly iconic (eg, the Stirling Single), but I'm not sure the J70 fits that category - especially when it's just as applicable to later eras where there is plenty of suitable rolling stock available RTR.

 

That's not to say that a GER version is out of the question. But, from a commercial perspective, I would expect that Model Rail and Rapido will want to have covered off all their development costs with the more popular liveries before offering anything a bit more esoteric.

[Corbs]

Just my two cents, I think if a J70 had survived into preservation and appeared in GER livery in real life, then it would be a good seller like the C, H, P classes in their pretty liveries, and I suspect the upcoming 812.

[alfsboy]

I made a D&S brass one for a customer once .A GER version and did the side skirt blue lined part as a  decal  just using white decal sheet  sprayed blue  and red lined.I applied it to the model and then put on GER decals .It was many many many years ago but I would have thought it could be done easily on the Rapido mode or  someone could do a small print run even .I will stop waffling but you get the drift .

Edited May 10, 2018 by alfsboy

[sem34090]

I do not understand the lack of GER model here.

 

Which liveries have been selling out the most with newly released models, especially pretty liveries like SECR Green. GER blue is a pretty livery, so quite why the logic that has proven so successful for Hattons and Hornby, and even Bachmann, in recent years would not work for MR is quite beyond me!

 

Let's just ask Hattons in a few weeks how many SECR Green P's and Bluebells they have sold compared to SR and BR black ones... I think it would prove my point.

 

If pre-grouping only sells on account of it being pretty, then so be it! The manufacturers make a huge return, and the expanding minority of pre-grouping modelers get their locos!

[rue_d_etropal]

I will echo some of the comments about pre-grouping liveries. It is those versions of locos that have sold well, and are more sought after. Possibly more collectors than modellers. Lack of suitable coaches does not seem to reduce interest, but there is a serious shortage of pre-grouping coach stock. still it does make it easier for me to do my my own pre-grouping coaches using 3D printing, including the W&U ones. What is odd is that the GER society does not have many coach drawings .

As for being able to paint, then it should be pinted out that different skills are different and just because someone can do one does not mean they can do others. It is not uncommon to find modellers who can either build complex kits or do superb paintwork, but not both. By a similar token, there are those who can build loco bodies but not a working chassis and visa versa. What's more not everyone, however much they try can learn some skills. Some can, some can't. It is as simple as that.

[Edwardian]

Just my two cents, I think if a J70 had survived into preservation and appeared in GER livery in real life, then it would be a good seller like the C, H, P classes in their pretty liveries, and I suspect the upcoming 812.

 

Are you saying Toby wasn't preserved?!?

 

All those books are lies???!!!???

 

I think I need to lie down

[Edwardian]

My goodness, imagine the outcry if a BR modeller was told, in effect, to p1ss off and repaint a pre-Grouping liveried model black every time he wanted a loco. No doubt some few would, but, my goodness, if told to accept this as the norm ...

 

I think it's very little to do with ability to convert or repaint. My own position is simply that, in a world of squeezed time and many projects, I'd rather stick to my white metal kit C53 than spend a lot of money on a second loco that will sit on my vast project pile until I get around to dealing with it.  I'd rather spend what time I have on the stock to go with it!  But, bring out a pre-Grouping version and I'll buy it straight away. Rather than wait to get round to repainting one, I may as well keep my money in the bank and see if one comes out in the version that interests me.

 

I had hoped that we were past the stage where one had to argue that wanting to see more pre-Grouping locos was a legitimate aspiration.  Actually, the manufacturers and retail-commissioners have realised the demand and have moved on, as Alex has just illustrated in the case of Hornby.  

 

Pre-Grouping does sell. Keep up with the programme guys!

[dibber25]

These decisions are never an easy call. Part of the issue with the GER version is that it was very much tied to the bogie coach and when that proved not to be viable, one good reason for doing the GER-liveried loco was gone. The other factor is that you have to do, effectively, two or even three, versions in each livery. (full skirts, cowcatchers only, no skirts) I have no inside knowledge and at present we've got to wait and see what happens with the first batches but, on a purely personal basis, I'd be surprised if the GER livery didn't make it into a second run. Don't forget that when these liveries were set, there had been no 'H', no 'C', no 'P', no Huntley & Palmers Peckett etc. Things move quickly in this hobby despite how it might appear to those awaiting a particular new model. (CJL)

[Edwardian]

These decisions are never an easy call. Part of the issue with the GER version is that it was very much tied to the bogie coach and when that proved not to be viable, one good reason for doing the GER-liveried loco was gone. The other factor is that you have to do, effectively, two or even three, versions in each livery. (full skirts, cowcatchers only, no skirts) I have no inside knowledge and at present we've got to wait and see what happens with the first batches but, on a purely personal basis, I'd be surprised if the GER livery didn't make it into a second run. Don't forget that when these liveries were set, there had been no 'H', no 'C', no 'P', no Huntley & Palmers Peckett etc. Things move quickly in this hobby despite how it might appear to those awaiting a particular new model. (CJL)

 

That is helpful and encouraging, thank you Chris, though I accept there are no guarantees here.

 

And yes, I rely a lot on some very recent examples in putting the case for a GE version.  Hornby introduced an 1890s industrial, in Victorian condition to boot; only in the later releases are we actually tending to see them more in post-Victorian/Edwardian guise.  A surprise.

 

Hornby has also only recently moved from its preferred "as-preserved" pre-Grouping livery option, e.g. their Adams Radial, to the "in-service" Pre-Grouping condition of the H Class - a very recent shift.  Hattons have hedged it a bit with the Ps, but again, its recognition of the value of including "in-service" condition Pre-Grouping versions.  I note that both the TMC/Bachmann O Class/G5 and the RAILS/Bachmann Caley 812 are to include both "in-service" condition Pre-Grouping versions, as well as versions representing pre-Grouping "as-preserved", or newly built in the case of the G5.  

 

All this is terrifically recent, and to have anticipated it would have required something of a crystal ball.

 

Again, fingers crossed.  It's going to be too good a model not to have in its resplendent original livery.

[NHY 581]

On a slight tangent........well large tangent, a Drummond liveried Radial....mmmm

 

 

Rob