iak Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 My point is that with front end damage that Vettel would certainly have known about and seeing Hamilton racing through to take the lead, Vettel would have seen his championship hopes disappearing. Past experience has shown that he is not averse to using alternative tactics to improve his chances. Alternatively known as using subversive,dangerous and plain stupid driving methods.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 ...Lewis asked a pertinent question, did Vettel run into him on purpose? I think he did... I would propose the innocent explanation, Vettel's just not that good at close in car control. Whatever, that's the last chance he'll ever get at the championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I would propose the innocent explanation, Vettel's just not that good at close in car control. Whatever, that's the last chance he'll ever get at the championship. Poor spatial awareness? Nah, poor loser with a chip shop on his shoulder... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) I am inclined to agree with you that Massa forced him off, but think it at least justified an investigation. Or Massa was on the racing line and Vettel put himself in the position where he had to go wide... On that bit at the beginning I'll give Vettel the benefit of the doubt, I don't think it was deliberate unlike when he took out those two others a few races ago where he should have been penalised for dangerous driving. My brother used to race and I was one of his mechanics. I took part I the end of season mech race at Aycliffe. Exciting and exceedingly uncomfortable. Now his son races with his same number 238. Cheers Mick I raced F2s in the late 80s, Mick. First season was done on a very small budget and most races at a track I didn't like (Nitten), though I did get points elsewhere (Aycliffe, Hartlepool and Newton Abbot!). Then a gap and then a shared car which was much better than the £50 special earlier, and a couple of decent sets of results before we fell out and that was that... Not so sure comfort came into Stox but the second season's car was a delight to drive! Edited October 30, 2017 by Hobby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2017 And, in the remaining races, might we see Bottas snatch the runner-up spot from Vettel and make it a Mercedes one-two............ John 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Vettel was in a red car so different rules I always think they should do. At least Ferrari has always been red. But why aren't Benz's still silver arrows - or should they to be British Racing Green? I have completely lost track of what is Brit, Gorman and Iti in Global Big Business F1 Nevertheless we should congratulate a worthy Monegascue Champion. dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jol Wilkinson Posted October 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2017 With the exception of Ferrari. and to some extent Mercedes, the idea of the car's colour being based on the teams "nationality" has been overtaken by the need to satisfy the sponsors. The concept of a teams nationality relating to where they are based is also no longer applicable, it is down to who pays the money and therefore where they are registered. Of the seven teams based wholly or partly in the UK, only Williams and McLaren are registered here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted October 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2017 I raced F2s in the late 80s, Mick. First season was done on a very small budget and most races at a track I didn't like (Nitten), though I did get points elsewhere (Aycliffe, Hartlepool and Newton Abbot!). Then a gap and then a shared car which was much better than the £50 special earlier, and a couple of decent sets of results before we fell out and that was that... Not so sure comfort came into Stox but the second season's car was a delight to drive! Nitten - round the footy pitch. I think F1s only ever did one meeting there. The Scottish Saloon stox guys were mental to watch. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 They did several F1 meetings, though only one per season, still are, I think, but now at Cowdenbeath (also round a football pitch!)... I used to enjoy watching the saloon boys, and knew several of them well, but I'd never have a go as, as you say, they were mental! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Any predictions for 2018 this early? hahah Ham Vest Ricco Alonso Ocon The German / Italian Ferret. Perez Sainz Hulk Riak Stoll Vand 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Max is probably the main attraction in Formula 1. I think, if he gets a good car next season, he will be the one to beat. I wonder what his points tally would have been if he hadn't had so many DNFs. Can anyone calculate his potential total if you take his track position when the car failed? Edited October 30, 2017 by RBAGE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Max is probably the main attraction in Formula 1. I think, if he gets a good car next season, he will be the one to beat. I wonder what his points tally would have been if he hadn't had so many DNFs. More than Vettels that's for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Sounds to me like Alonso's bitter that he didn't get the Merc Drive. http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/21223306/fernando-alonso-hopes-mclaren-renault-end-mercedes-easy-2018 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) I'm not so sure Lewis can beat Schumacher's record now with Max and Danny pushing, and Sainz and Ocon in the wings, but I'm sure he will get at least 1 more Title. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41696360 Edited October 30, 2017 by Andrew P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 You can understand why Fernando is a bit unhappy with his lot. He is a fantastic driver in a clockwork car with a rusty spring. I hope his fortunes improve next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted October 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) More than Vettels that's for sure. Is it? If you take Max's grid positions, then he has retired from: - 2nd (Singapore) - 5th (Belgium) - 5th (Austria) - 5th (Baku) - 5th (Canada) - 5th (Spain) - 6th (Bahrain) So he'd have 76 more points if he'd finished in his grid position each time. I CBA to calculate how that would have affected everyone else. That would mean he would have 224 points, leaving him 4th, 38 points behind Bottas and 53 points behind Vettel, who should probably be 'awarded' some notional extra points for his non-self-inflicted DNFs. He'd also only be 30 points ahead of Ricciardo, who has himself had 5 retirements this year, as well as numerous penalties. I like Max, I don't like Vettel (although I applaud his humble congratulations of Hamilton yesterday), but lets be honest a Dutch publication is hardly the most impartial of publications, what may happen next year is total speculation, and to suggest anything else is just daft. There's a huge amount of 'what-abboutery' surrounding Verstappen, more so than any driver I can think of, he's undeniably had some reliability issues, but he's hardly been robbed of the world championship this time around IMO. Edited October 30, 2017 by njee20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Is it? If you take Max's grid positions, then he has retired from: - 2nd (Singapore) - 5th (Belgium) - 5th (Austria) - 5th (Baku) - 5th (Canada) - 5th (Spain) - 6th (Bahrain) So he'd have 76 more points if he'd finished in his grid position each time. I CBA to calculate how that would have affected everyone else. That would mean he would have 224 points, leaving him 5th, 38 points behind Bottas and 53 points behind Vettel, who should probably be 'awarded' some notional extra points for his non-self-inflicted DNFs. I like Max, I don't like Vettel (although I applaud his humble congratulations of Hamilton yesterday), but lets be honest a Dutch publication is hardly the most impartial of publications, what may happen next year is total speculation, and to suggest anything else is just daft. I didn't mean his grid position. I meant the position he was running in when the car went bang. I'm sure that would be quite a bit better than grid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Poor spatial awareness? Nah, poor loser with a chip shop on his shoulder...When Vettel was winning all his titles, he did it by mostly driving off into the distance in the fastest car (which is not to disparage him by the way, Webber was no slouch and he wasn't Vettel's equal in the same car).It was said at the time that although he was really fast in clear air, he wasn't the strongest wheel-to-wheel racer out there, and I don't see why that would have changed since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Any predictions for 2018 this early? hahah... Whatever, you need to wedge Bott in somewhere on that list. He's still in with a crack at second this season, and couple of Ham on Vet manoeuvres could sort that for him... You can understand why Fernando is a bit unhappy with his lot. He is a fantastic driver in a clockwork car with a rusty spring... His talent should have secured him better drives for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Whatever, you need to wedge Bott in somewhere on that list. He's still in with a crack at second this season, and couple of Ham on Vet manoeuvres could sort that for him... His talent should have secured him better drives for sure. WHOOPS I forgot the Bott, well 3rd for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted October 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2017 I didn't mean his grid position. I meant the position he was running in when the car went bang. I'm sure that would be quite a bit better than grid. I know, but that's harder, as you have to factor in things like where the other drivers were in the pit stop cycle. It's a huge leap of faith to say "he was in x when he had the problem, therefore he would have finished there". Grid position is a proxy, but shows he was still a long way off winning (or even beating Vettel), and if you're extending the courtesy of speculative point giving then like I say you surely need to do that for the other drivers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted October 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2017 Very patriotic tone in that. Not that I'm surprised though But it's wishful thinking, as it doesn't take into account the competition from Max and Seb (despite his antics, Vettel still has a good-enough car to play a part in the battles for the 2018 title) so it could well be that 2018 (and/or any season after that) will not see a British winner again A glorious irony given the near-propaganda like tone of some of the Verstappen articles ;-) We still don't know about 2018 though. I know we're not seeing major rule changes, but even so, I want to know how people know which are the best cars next year?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I know, but that's harder, as you have to factor in things like where the other drivers were in the pit stop cycle. It's a huge leap of faith to say "he was in x when he had the problem, therefore he would have finished there". Grid position is a proxy, but shows he was still a long way off winning (or even beating Vettel), and if you're extending the courtesy of speculative point giving then like I say you surely need to do that for the other drivers? Of course you're correct but at least for this season you only need to consider 6 drivers for most of the races. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I still think it may take a season for McLaren to get the Renault engine to work for them. Look at the Renault retirements this year, not as bad as Honda, but not good. And what will Red Bull do in 2019, Renault have already said they cant have their engines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted October 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2017 Of course you're correct but at least for this season you only need to consider 6 drivers for most of the races. Right... And Verstappen is in the top 6 in every single one of those where he retired. My point was that Andrew suggested Max would "definitely" have more points than Vettel were it not for his retirements, I'm just not seeing that. If he would have won two of the (say the 6th and one 5th) he'd have an extra 102 points, and would still be 12 points behind Bottas and 27 behind Vettel. And again, that's giving him the generosity of seven additional points finishes without also assuming anyone else finished some more races. Surely you need to give Vettel another 50 or so points at least? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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