Formula 1 2017

[Andrew P]

There's a rumour going around, (well actually I'm just starting it now, hahah) that the Teams are considering re branding their cars for 2018.

 

Firstly all Cars will be RED,

 

Secondly they will be re branded as;

Fecedes,

Fered Bull,

Fer Roso,

Ferenault,

Ferilliams,

Ferauber,

Fehass,

and lastly,

Force Italia.

 

Hhahahhahheeee        

Edited October 23, 2017 by Andrew P

[Dunsignalling]

If they don't want drivers using the "wrong" side of the already (IMHO) over-wide edging (it certainly can't be described as a kerb), the answer is simple, install a nice thick bed of gravel.

 

John  

Edited October 23, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Bill Radford]

I agree with everything said already about the last lap incident but don't forget about the winner. Great pass on Vettel - in a car that is not good at following others and the pass on Max was brilliant - no thought of staying out of trouble just to finish.

[Andrew P]

If they don't want drivers using the "wrong" side of the already (IMHO) over-wide edging (it certainly can't be described as a kerb), the answer is simple, install a nice thick bed of gravel.

 

John  

Or just a simple Post as on some other Circuits.

[EddieB]

I agree with everything said already about the last lap incident but don't forget about the winner. Great pass on Vettel - in a car that is not good at following others and the pass on Max was brilliant - no thought of staying out of trouble just to finish.

Quite agree.  We should be celebrating an almost faultless drive by Hamilton (as he has done throughout the second half of the season) to all but secure the championship.  For comparison, he totally out-drove his team-mate (Mercedes performance when following other cars notwithstanding)., 

 

A great debut at Renault for Carlos Sainz.  A pity that the Hulk wasn't able to race him for comparison - but it bodes well for the team and the sport for them to have two competitive drivers.

 

All in all it was a good race - except for being spoiled by inconsistent application of the rules.

[iak]

Shambolic ineptitude is the bane of F1. The constant inconsistencies of the stewards are ruining things, again!

This latest farce is the worst yet, people want to see racing and not races decided by farting about in the stewards room.

[Gareth Collier]

Enough said about Ferrari favouritism but I think Sainz performance in the Renault shows just how poor Palmer really was.

[Andrew P]

Enough said about Ferrari favouritism but I think Sainz performance in the Renault shows just how poor Palmer really was.

It disappoints me to have to agree with you about Palmer, he never really cut the mustard.

 

Sainz did a superb job all weekend and will put a lot of pressure on the Hulk, (who I rate as good, but not top draw).

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

It does look like Sainz has the capability to make fullest use of any improvement in the Renault.

 

As for the Red Bull pair, excellent racy performances. Here's hoping they have a reliable chariot next season, then we might have a classic year.

 

Question mark over Mercedes race strategy wasn't there? Might have brought Hamilton in a lap earlier perhaps, to avoid risk from Vettel.

[PhilH]

Nothing like a bit of excitement (a rarity nowadays) in F1 to wake people up...

[Mike Storey]

Having watched the re-play of Verstappen's overtake several times now, I cannot help thinking that the stewards actually had no choice but to penalise him.

 

I have no issue with the inconsistency of steward decisions over time, and some sympathy with the view that Ferrari gets a lot more leniency on these decisions. But what I cannot find, from review of this race, is anyone else gaining competitive advantage with all wheels over the line, during 56 laps, other than at the outer kerbs where almost all would run wide, to gain traction out of the bend. I could not spot anyone doing this on an inner kerb? Has anyone spotted this, as I cannot say I have been entirely thorough.

 

A really great shame, because it was a fantastic move.

[royaloak]

Having watched the re-play of Verstappen's overtake several times now, I cannot help thinking that the stewards actually had no choice but to penalise him.

 

I have no issue with the inconsistency of steward decisions over time, and some sympathy with the view that Ferrari gets a lot more leniency on these decisions. But what I cannot find, from review of this race, is anyone else gaining competitive advantage with all wheels over the line, during 56 laps, other than at the outer kerbs where almost all would run wide, to gain traction out of the bend. I could not spot anyone doing this on an inner kerb? Has anyone spotted this, as I cannot say I have been entirely thorough.

 

A really great shame, because it was a fantastic move.

So you would have preferred him to hold his line (keeping 2 wheels on the tarmac) and possibly colliding with Raikkonen who was closing him down.

You have to bear in mind that Verstappen doesnt have the benefit of hindsight or a review of the situation and has to make a split second decision, in this case he decided to cut the corner to avoid a collision, I mean Charlie Whiting had stated before the race they werent bothered about track limits, maybe he should have added 'unless you are overtaking a Ferrari for a podium spot'.

 

A lot of drivers had exceeded track limits prior to that including the top 3 so why penalise just the one driver?

[Chrisr40]

 

 

I love Ferrari, you can keep the drivers (except Gilles he will always be the greatest in my eyes) - the car and the legend is what does it for me. Yes they get away with blue murder because without them F1 would basically have very little credibility but if you want to condemn apparent ferrari favouritism don't forget it was about this time last year that when Max got another penalty for corner cutting in mexico a Mercedes driver cut the whole first corner and got away Scot free because he slowed down a bit... I dont believe we had any posts about blatant Mercedes favouritism then ? The issue here is consistency and fairness.

The decision on Max is an embarrassment and those involved should be made to go and officiate in formula e. The best drive of the race in what isn't the best car and then worrying the leaders like he did deserved much more than he got. F1 officially dissapeared up its own ar5e yesterday. I actually felt acutely embarrassed during the changes liberty made to the pre race. F1 used to be an intelligent sport with a bit of class and style, well for me that went out the window yesterday. Sorry if anyone enjoyed the razzamataz but I thought it was dumbing down to a very low level. I almost expected to see them getting extra points for how many people in the stands had bought each driver's t shirt.

[royaloak]

 Sorry if anyone enjoyed the razzamataz but I thought it was dumbing down to a very low level.

It was American, it had to appeal to their core audience who think going round and round in circles as fast as you can is 'racing', what did you expect?

Edited October 23, 2017 by royaloak

[Chrisr40]

It was American, what did you expect?

Sigh, yes and didnt we know it

[Chrisr40]

Sigh, yes and didnt we know it

Next year at Silverstone can we have the guy from the darts doing the driver announcements ? Or perhaps Jim Bowen ?

[RJS1977]

So you would have preferred him to hold his line (keeping 2 wheels on the tarmac) and possibly colliding with Raikkonen who was closing him down.

You have to bear in mind that Verstappen doesnt have the benefit of hindsight or a review of the situation and has to make a split second decision, in this case he decided to cut the corner to avoid a collision, I mean Charlie Whiting had stated before the race they werent bothered about track limits, maybe he should have added 'unless you are overtaking a Ferrari for a podium spot'.

 

A lot of drivers had exceeded track limits prior to that including the top 3 so why penalise just the one driver?

 

I think everybody else exceeded track limits on the outside of corners (e.g Bottas), which means they have to drive further and are therefore disadvantaged in overtaking. What Max did in cutting the corner was effectively to shorten the circuit, which is more frowned upon. Had it not happened so close to the end of the race, I would normally have expected a driver in those circumstances to give the place back voluntarily.

[Mike Storey]

So you would have preferred him to hold his line (keeping 2 wheels on the tarmac) and possibly colliding with Raikkonen who was closing him down.

You have to bear in mind that Verstappen doesnt have the benefit of hindsight or a review of the situation and has to make a split second decision, in this case he decided to cut the corner to avoid a collision, I mean Charlie Whiting had stated before the race they werent bothered about track limits, maybe he should have added 'unless you are overtaking a Ferrari for a podium spot'.

 

A lot of drivers had exceeded track limits prior to that including the top 3 so why penalise just the one driver?

 

That is your opinion, but mine is that Raikkonen was not closing him down. The footage shows Raikkonen was taking a normal racing line and Versteppen was not close enough at the turn for Raikkonen to have to yield. He went for it with almost no hope of having enough space within the legal limits. He admits he went over the line with all wheels. His only defence seems to be to call one of the stewards an idiot (and there is history there), but it would have to take at least three of the stewards to agree an infraction, I believe?.

 

Where we can agree is that there is a degree of inconsistency which has led to this debate, although there will be a further debate on the amount of that, I am sure. Following a similar debate on the Autosport forum about this, several have contributed examples of where the same rule has been applied to other drivers in other races over this season and in the last. It may not be of interest (and it may be stuffed full of Ferrari supporters, but knowing the Autosport site, I doubt that), but on a running poll on there, the majority agreeing the penalty was justified, against those who don't, is currently well over 3 to 1.

 

We can also agree that it is this sort of grey area which can ruin a good race, but then, the same also applies in football, where only one human bean can make a game-changing decision. That does not make it right, but in any sport, the players are normally expected to suck it up. If consistent bias towards one particular team can be proven, I am sure we would have seen and heard a lot more about that by now from the other team principals. It just feels that way to us.

[Hobby]

who think going round and round in circles as fast as you can is 'racing',

 

Oh dear, that old chestnut again! Yes it's motor racing, just different to "circuit" racing... Of the many top F1 drivers over the years only the very best have done well on the Ovals and I've no doubt that the very best Oval racers would do equally well on the circuits - Mario Andretti springs to mind... Many F1 drivers thought it would be easy and have have found otherwise when they've actually tried to do it... I do wonder if this sort of attitude towards the Ovals harks back to how they started, as a bootleggers and working class motor sport whereas F1 and circuits were mainly raced by the Toffs in the old days and it's stuck ever since that Circuits are the best by default and Ovals are to be ridiculed at every opportunity? Sorry, rant over!! 

 

That is your opinion, but mine is that Raikkonen was not closing him down. The footage shows Raikkonen was taking a normal racing line and Versteppen was not close enough at the turn for Raikkonen to have to yield

 

I think that is where many of us disagree with you. R started to take the racing line, you can see his wheels start to turn in but then he realised V was there and corrected (again you can see the wheel movement) and he was way off the "racing line" for that corner which was two wheels over the white line and two on the circuit... V did the same correction as R did to avoid the collision but by so doing "cut" the corner by a very small margin...

 

I agree that he then broke the Rules, but as many others have said most other drivers had done the same at various times during the race but no penalty were imposed. It's all about consistency, if you penalise one then you have to do the same to the others. More to the point if you don't want cut corners make them so cutting them will slow the cars down, a decent sized kerb would do that...

Edited October 24, 2017 by Hobby

[Andrew P]

Their really playing with this kids head now.

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/21127281/brendon-hartley-pierre-gasly-drive-toro-rosso-mexico-daniil-kvyat-dropped-again

[Jol Wilkinson]

I love Ferrari, you can keep the drivers (except Gilles he will always be the greatest in my eyes) - the car and the legend is what does it for me. Yes they get away with blue murder because without them F1 would basically have very little credibility but if you want to condemn apparent ferrari favouritism don't forget it was about this time last year that when Max got another penalty for corner cutting in mexico a Mercedes driver cut the whole first corner and got away Scot free because he slowed down a bit... I dont believe we had any posts about blatant Mercedes favouritism then ? The issue here is consistency and fairness.

The decision on Max is an embarrassment and those involved should be made to go and officiate in formula e. The best drive of the race in what isn't the best car and then worrying the leaders like he did deserved much more than he got. F1 officially dissapeared up its own ar5e yesterday. I actually felt acutely embarrassed during the changes liberty made to the pre race. F1 used to be an intelligent sport with a bit of class and style, well for me that went out the window yesterday. Sorry if anyone enjoyed the razzamataz but I thought it was dumbing down to a very low level. I almost expected to see them getting extra points for how many people in the stands had bought each driver's t shirt.

It is partly down to the special treatment that Ferrari has  received over the years (largest share of team payout, right to veto proposed rules,  etc. ) that F1 has poor credibility. Fortunately for them, the casual fan that the F1 circus is trying to attract won't be aware of all that, but for me it makes their attempts to beat the other teams even more pathetic.

 

That is your opinion, but mine is that Raikkonen was not closing him down. The footage shows Raikkonen was taking a normal racing line and Versteppen was not close enough at the turn for Raikkonen to have to yield. He went for it with almost no hope of having enough space within the legal limits. He admits he went over the line with all wheels. His only defence seems to be to call one of the stewards an idiot (and there is history there), but it would have to take at least three of the stewards to agree an infraction, I believe?.

 

Where we can agree is that there is a degree of inconsistency which has led to this debate, although there will be a further debate on the amount of that, I am sure. Following a similar debate on the Autosport forum about this, several have contributed examples of where the same rule has been applied to other drivers in other races over this season and in the last. It may not be of interest (and it may be stuffed full of Ferrari supporters, but knowing the Autosport site, I doubt that), but on a running poll on there, the majority agreeing the penalty was justified, against those who don't, is currently well over 3 to 1.

 

We can also agree that it is this sort of grey area which can ruin a good race, but then, the same also applies in football, where only one human bean can make a game-changing decision. That does not make it right, but in any sport, the players are normally expected to suck it up. If consistent bias towards one particular team can be proven, I am sure we would have seen and heard a lot more about that by now from the other team principals. It just feels that way to us.

While we can debate the correctness of MV's action, the inconsistency of the stewards in applying the rules as defined and communicated to the teams, etc. it has to be remembered that this was "racing" with split second decisions. MV couldn't know if KR was going to turn further into him (unlike you could with Vettel off the start line), he couldn't know if KR was aware of how close he was. If they had collided I am sure MV would have been seen as the guilty party, which would probably have been justified.

 

It is racing so was he justified in going for it? Of course he was. Should the stewards have penalised him? Possibly, but the way in which rules seem to be applied inconsistently once the lights go out is something that needs addressing. The penalty for going outside track limits at Monaco, Singapore, etc. is very clear. The same should apply elsewhere.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I think everybody else exceeded track limits on the outside of corners (e.g Bottas), which means they have to drive further and are therefore disadvantaged in overtaking. What Max did in cutting the corner was effectively to shorten the circuit, which is more frowned upon. Had it not happened so close to the end of the race, I would normally have expected a driver in those circumstances to give the place back voluntarily.

Best to learn these lessons now, while in an uncompetitive car so far as championship potential is concerned. That way when he has a real chance in the title race there should be fewer vital points lost by rule infractions. (You can bet that if he got that time penalty in a really tight title race, it would be from a position in a train of cars following each other with about a second interval between each car, and would have cost him two , three, possibly even four places.)

 

It will be interesting to watch Verstappen's driving style and race craft develop, when he moves from his present 'all the talent but with no nope of the title' slot to 'in with a shot'. For all that Hamilton has deserved his success with Mercedes, he isn't as regularly exciting as the boyracer who stole the title from Massa, of whom I was briefly reminded this past weekend as he did Vettel for the lead.

 

I love Ferrari...

Me too. For as long as I am spared I hope to see them finish second or third each season, just squeezed out after great initial  hopes. A successful pantomime needs an easily comprehended villain, and the red cars do it perfectly.

[Jintyman]

Their really playing with this kids head now.

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/21127281/brendon-hartley-pierre-gasly-drive-toro-rosso-mexico-daniil-kvyat-dropped-again

 

I totally agree Andy, they should make a firm decision on him, not just keep him hanging in case there may be a drive!!!

He hasn't helped himself either along the way, but he should be given a certain direction for his career.

 

Jinty

[Zomboid]

Kvyat is done with TR. He's never going to get "promoted" back to RB, and that is the main point of TR. He might have a future elsewhere in F1, but it won't be anything to do with a revolting energy drink.

 

It's hard to see any short term vacancies in RB actually, with Verstappen and Ricciardo both being good enough to win the title, but that's a different matter.

[RJS1977]

The only way I can see a vacancy in RB is if either Merc decide Valteri isn't good enough or Lewis decides to call it a day, and Max or Daniel R move over.