Birmingham Hope St- BR (ex GCR) Minories Style Urban Layout 1965

[danstercivicman]

To make the most of available siding space, I would move the bottom point kicking back off the long spur further to the left, thereby allowing the two kick- back sidings to be longer. I doesn't affect what you do with the long siding, so much as add some shunting puzzle thought to movements in that area. If you have sound, this is ideal for hearing brakes, squeals and buffer clank.

 

aac

Makes sense

 

Sadly I will not be going down the DCC route...

[Budgie]

Also they have no latching blades so need motors...

No they don't. I managed to cobble up 4 Peco PL12s and various bits and bobs to fit manual point levers to a Shinohara scissors. They can even be squeezed in the 6-foot by judicious use of bell cranks.

[danstercivicman]

No they don't. I managed to cobble up 4 Peco PL12s and various bits and bobs to fit manual point levers to a Shinohara scissors. They can even be squeezed in the 6-foot by judicious use of bell cranks.

Clever stuff, they are very well made. I sold mine on eBay. Tbh any replacement layout is still far away and my health has been again a restriction following the head injury.

 

We're also moving house and that's been delayed by various factors but there is no current 'train space'

[bike2steam]

No they don't. I managed to cobble up 4 Peco PL12s and various bits and bobs to fit manual point levers to a Shinohara scissors. They can even be squeezed in the 6-foot by judicious use of bell cranks.

 

In this pic you'll see a Shinohara crossover ( near top r/h), in the buildings by each 'switch'/turnout a building hides Peco PL-10's plus polarity micro-switches ( NOT the Peco ones !)   

[danstercivicman]

In this pic you'll see a Shinohara crossover ( near top r/h), in the buildings by each 'switch'/turnout a building hides Peco PL-10's plus polarity micro-switches ( NOT the Peco ones !)

That is a lovely layout! Do you have any pictures of the throats where the two bays join?

 

It's a great use of space and I love the 4 track main line!!

[bike2steam]

Something like this ? ;-

 

 

Unfortunately I no longer have the layout, sold it on for an 'offer I couldn't refuse', hope to start a new layout again soon, it will include another Shinohara crossing as they are superb space savers. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by bike2steam

[danstercivicman]

Something like this ? ;-

 

post-7336-0-89929800-1477131097.jpg

 

Unfortunately I no longer have the layout, sold it on for an 'offer I couldn't resist', hope to start a new layout again soon, it will include another Shinohara crossing as they are superb space savers.

Perfect-

 

Looks like down platform loop, down main, up main, up platform loop. Then a junction to the bays?

 

Cracking arrangement as it permits a lot of variety.

 

Did you model a separate goods yard or just the passenger workings?

 

Best

 

Dan

[bike2steam]

Perfect-

 

Looks like down platform loop, down main, up main, up platform loop. Then a junction to the bays?

 

Cracking arrangement as it permits a lot of variety.

 

Did you model a separate goods yard or just the passenger workings?

 

Best

 

Dan

 

Thanks. Goods yard 'off scene' with workings going thro'. Meant as a 'lifetime' layout, along with use as a test track for loco kit building, it didn't quite do it, a 'roundy-roundy' with fiddle yard on the opposite side. A bit ambitious maybe something a little smaller will do, as I have other interests to keep me busy, the next will be a little simpler, but the final track design is still to be decided.

[BobM]

Lovely work...makes me envious and want to tear my layout apart and begin again....

Regards always

Bob

[danstercivicman]

Indeed seeing that 4 track bay platform scissors with the fantastic buildings is sobering

[Andrew P]

Indeed seeing that 4 track bay platform scissors with the fantastic buildings is sobering

But YOU can do the same Dan, all in time mate.

[danstercivicman]

But YOU can do the same Dan, all in time mate.

Indeed looking forward to getting fully healed then saving for the lifetime layout

[danstercivicman]

In the meantime I have been busy planning.   It helps take my mind off things....

 

Here we have a GNR style approach.  There is a short platform at the top for local trains (which also doubles as the head-shunt for the fish and meat traffic).  Then there is a set of goods sidings under the main passenger terminus which would also support parcels workings.  

 

It would be 2 x 1.5m boards with an additional 1.8m cassette system.  The idea is that it would be supported by screwfix leg things and totally portable

 

Thoughts welcome?

 

The basic idea is a mix of Nottingham Low Level and GNR Leicester Belgrave Road

 

 

[Pacific231G]

In the meantime I have been busy planning.   It helps take my mind off things....

 

Here we have a GNR style approach.  There is a short platform at the top for local trains (which also doubles as the head-shunt for the fish and meat traffic).  Then there is a set of goods sidings under the main passenger terminus which would also support parcels workings.  

 

It would be 2 x 1.5m boards with an additional 1.8m cassette system.  The idea is that it would be supported by screwfix leg things and totally portable

 

Thoughts welcome?

 

The basic idea is a mix of Nottingham Low Level and GNR Leicester Belgrave Road

It looks to provide a good mix of operation and though  I don't know about GNR practice to my untrained eyes this does look  like it's following a specific company's practice rather than being a more generic trackplan like Minories.

 

Just a thought, but if the scenic break at the right hand end is an overbridge rather than a tunnel then would it make sense to extend the goods  sidings a few inches into the fiddle area? With a cassette based system that probably wouldn't interfere with other off-stage activities.

This would give the impression of a larger (or at least longer) goods yard off-stage. Didn't you in any case do that with Birmingham Hope St?  

[danstercivicman]

It looks to provide a good mix of operation and though I don't know about GNR practice to my untrained eyes this does look like it's following a specific company's practice rather than being a more generic trackplan like Minories.

 

Just a thought, but if the scenic break at the right hand end is an overbridge rather than a tunnel then would it make sense to extend the goods sidings a few inches into the fiddle area? With a cassette based system that probably wouldn't interfere with other off-stage activities.

This would give the impression of a larger (or at least longer) goods yard off-stage. Didn't you in any case do that with Birmingham Hope St?

Yeah, I have brought as many books on the GNR former stations in Nottingham and Leicester.

 

It appears (and correct me if I'm wrong) the Nottingham terminus was redundant and used for parcels? The focus then switched to Nottingham high level which was a through line linking with the GC? Or part of the suburban railway...

 

The Leicester Belgrave Road Terminus has very little written about it. It seems massively over built for the eventual demand with one side being a goods yard. The station appears to have been mainly used for holiday traffic.

 

The idea of the goods lines extending is good :

 

It was my plan with minories but poor woodworking prevented it.... (note to self build baseboards well..)

[5BarVT]

Done from memory but I read up on Nottingham’s railways a long time ago when I lived there for 5 years. GCR wanted to call their Nottingham station Central as they did with Leicester, Rugby etc but GNR objected in what (I think) was a joint station hence the compromise of Victoria. London Road high level I’m fairly certain was locals only with the main terminus becoming Victoria. London Rd low level was well and truly parcels only by my time but exactly when that occurred I don’t know.

Disused stations is quite good for that sort of information and has an entry for London Road LL.

Paul.

[danstercivicman]

Done from memory but I read up on Nottingham’s railways a long time ago when I lived there for 5 years. GCR wanted to call their Nottingham station Central as they did with Leicester, Rugby etc but GNR objected in what (I think) was a joint station hence the compromise of Victoria. London Road high level I’m fairly certain was locals only with the main terminus becoming Victoria. London Rd low level was well and truly parcels only by my time but exactly when that occurred I don’t know.

Disused stations is quite good for that sort of information and has an entry for London Road LL.

Paul.

Yup 1944 appears to have been the last passenger out of the GNR London Road Low Level.

 

There's hardly any information on Belgrave Road (I know there is a model loosely based on it)..

[Pacific231G]

On 25/02/2018 at 17:47, danstercivicman said:

Yup 1944 appears to have been the last passenger out of the GNR London Road Low Level.

 

There's hardly any information on Belgrave Road (I know there is a model loosely based on it)..

I'm afraid my first reaction to  a terminus for hoiday specials was to wonder why anyone would go to Leicester for their holidays but of course people heading to the seaside had to be coming from somewhere.

 

Wiki has a 1910 timetable for Belgrave Road showing just 12 or 13 (depending on day) departures - none of them long distance-  but it's for April so doesn't include the summer holiday specials mainly to Skegness and Mablethorpe. It closed to regular traffic in 1953 but by then there was only one local train, to Grantham, each day and I did wonder if that was effectively a "ghost" train to avoid having to go through the formal closure process. Holiday traffic continued until 1962 so although five platforms seem a bit overcapacity for a dozen trains, presumably most of them were only used for the summer specials. It sounds a bit like the "Excursion" platforms at Weston s Mare or Tattenham Corner station that was pretty quiet most of the time but very intensively worked on Derby Day so needing all of its seven platforms (even nowadays I doubt if it needs all of its remaining three platforms on other days).

Tattenham Corner Station on a race day (but probably not Derby Day)

 

I know of a number of otherr termini at holiday and other destinations that had significant extra capacity to cater for such "leisure" peaks but it had never occurred to me that that urban termini might also have had extra platforms for the other end of such services. For a mainly commuter terminus outside London (Birmingham Moor St. perhaps?)  that would make for an interesting extra variety of trains especially as holiday specials often used quite old carriages that otherwise spent most of their time in the sidings.  

Edited December 20, 2020 by Pacific231G
caption for Tattenham Corner picture

[danstercivicman]

Wiki has a 1910 timetable for Belgrave Road showing just 12 or 13 (depending on day) departures - none of them long distance- but it's for April so doesn't include the summer holiday specials mainly to Skegness and Mablethorpe. It closed to regular traffic in 1953 but by then there was only the one local train to Grantham a day and I wonder if that was just ta "ghost" train to avoid having to go through the formal closure process. Holiday traffic continued until 1962 so although five platforms seem a bit overcapacity for a dozen trains, presumably most of them were only used for the summer specials. It sounds A bit like Tattenham Corner station that was pretty quiet most of the time but fairly intense on Derby Day. I'd always known about termini at holiday and other destinations with a lot of spare capacity to cater for the peaks but it had never occurred to me that that urban termini in cities might also have had extra platforms for the other end of such services. For a mainly commuter terminus outside London (Birmingham Moor St. perhaps?) that would make for an interesting extra variety of trains especially as holiday specials often used quite old carriages that otherwise spent most of their time in the sidings.

Definately, it appears to have been massively optimistic for daily traffic yet there are photos of it full of old stock at holiday season!

 

In terms of seaside termini- Cleethorpes appears to have been particularly busy with huge carriage sidings.

 

I guess stock is the next issue. My stock is well suited for minories but a former GNR would need B1's and also blood and custard stock?

[danstercivicman]

I'm afraid my first reaction to  a terminus for hoiday specials was to wonder why anyone would go to Leicester for their holidays but of course people heading to the seaside had to be coming from somewhere.

 

Wiki has a 1910 timetable for Belgrave Road showing just 12 or 13 (depending on day) departures - none of them long distance-  but it's for April so doesn't include the summer holiday specials mainly to Skegness and Mablethorpe. It closed to regular traffic in 1953 but by then there was only one local train, to Grantham, each day and I did wonder if that was effectively a "ghost" train to avoid having to go through the formal closure process. Holiday traffic continued until 1962 so although five platforms seem a bit overcapacity for a dozen trains, presumably most of them were only used for the summer specials. It sounds a bit like the "Excursion" platforms at Weston s Mare or Tattenham Corner station that was pretty quiet most of the time but very intensively worked on Derby Day so needing all of its seven platforms (even nowadays I doubt if it needs all of its remaining three platforms on other days).

Tattenham_Corner_railway_station.jpg

 

I know of a number of otherr termini at holiday and other destinations that had significant extra capacity to cater for such "leisure" peaks but it had never occurred to me that that urban termini might also have had extra platforms for the other end of such services. For a mainly commuter terminus outside London (Birmingham Moor St. perhaps?)  that would make for an interesting extra variety of trains especially as holiday specials often used quite old carriages that otherwise spent most of their time in the sidings.  

 

 

Love that picture    

[danstercivicman]

The problem with RMWEB is that looking at the layout forum causes more inspiration...

 

I like the Urban flow some of the layouts achieve by having dual level running....

 

I think the idea of the trains flowing through a busy city landscape really appeals to me.  

 

My plans seem to lack imagination and view breaks.  So...

 

Birmingham Hope St Low Level.   The GC were late into the city and got hemmed in!   There are Midland Lines running across and a junction to a freight branch.   This will allow the 8F to glide across with some coal traffic.

 

By the BR days the line was in decline.   The Minories themed low level allows the running of suburban services and perishable freights.

 

Semi Fasts can use the low level or glide by on the upper lines.

 

Alternatively I can switch the roles around...an ex Midland (or GNR) Station with the GC lines running above on a dark blue brick viaduct??? 

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

Quite a possible. I designed something similar but it didn't get built due to space restraints at the time. My current project has a disuesd viaduct hiding the entrance to one end of the fiddle yard.

 

Regarding te high level branch, depending on the company and space available a slip would probably be avoided. My excuse for similar to yours is that it was a war-time upgrade with no space between the tunnel and the platform to fit anything else.

[Pacific231G]

The problem with RMWEB is that looking at the layout forum causes more inspiration...

 

I like the Urban flow some of the layouts achieve by having dual level running....

 

I think the idea of the trains flowing through a busy city landscape really appeals to me.  

 

My plans seem to lack imagination and view breaks.  So...

 

Birmingham Hope St Low Level.   The GC were late into the city and got hemmed in!   There are Midland Lines running across and a junction to a freight branch.   This will allow the 8F to glide across with some coal traffic.

 

By the BR days the line was in decline.   The Minories themed low level allows the running of suburban services and perishable freights.

 

Semi Fasts can use the low level or glide by on the upper lines.

 

Alternatively I can switch the roles around...an ex Midland (or GNR) Station with the GC lines running above on a dark blue brick viaduct??? 

Interesting.Is the idea to have fiddle yards at both ends of the upper level? 

 

A couple of my favourite MLT layouts, Geoff Ashdown's EM gauge Tower Pier and Roy Emery's 00 Fenchurch Cuttings, do have separate passenger and goods operation but for some reason I prefer to keep freight and passenger working together even though separating them would give greater flexibility in design. I have operated a number of layouts that are effectively two layouts in one. One that I operated regularly had separate H0 and Hom stations with an exchange siding,  but always seemed to end up focussing on one or the other. Perhaps I'm just bad at multi-tasking.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Pacific231G

[danstercivicman]

Quite a possible. I designed something similar but it didn't get built due to space restraints at the time. My current project has a disuesd viaduct hiding the entrance to one end of the fiddle yard.

 

Regarding te high level branch, depending on the company and space available a slip would probably be avoided. My excuse for similar to yours is that it was a war-time upgrade with no space between the tunnel and the platform to fit anything else.

Hello, yeah I am never sure about slips. The freight line might be pushing it abit maybe a simple double track section above with no spurs would be better?

[danstercivicman]

Interesting.Is the idea to have fiddle yards at both ends of the upper level?

 

A couple of my favourite MLT layouts, Geoff Ashdown's EM gauge Tower Pier and Roy Emery's 00 Fenchurch Cuttings, do have separate passenger and goods operation but

for some reason I prefer to keep freight and passenger working together even though separating them would give greater flexibility in design. I have operated a number of layouts that are effectively two layouts in one. One that I operated regularly had separate H0 and Hom stations with an exchange siding, but always seemed to end up focussing on one or the other. Perhaps I'm just bad at multi-tasking.

Yes that's very true, my idea behind the upper lines is simply to give the 8f and the Britannia somewhere more appropriate- the idea of an 8f working into a minories style terminus seems far fetched... unless it was on an engineers working perhaps?

 

With the double track above I guess it can trundle along nicely with a load of coal trucks