Hornby AA15 Toad Brake Van

[toboldlygo]

I do like the weathering on the roof. It looks just 'right'.ian.

It should do, it took me ages

[NCB]

Just bought one of these gems. As a matter of interest, what is the plastic rod running down the centre of the underside of the chassis for?

Thanks

Nigel

[Adam]

7 minutes ago, NCB said:

Just bought one of these gems. As a matter of interest, what is the plastic rod running down the centre of the underside of the chassis for?

Thanks

Nigel

 

It's meant to represent the brake linkage I think. It looks odd because, understandably, the other linkages connecting it to the brakeshoes are not fully modelled. Even were they present, they're well-hidden by the wheels in any event.

 

Adam

[tomparryharry]

It is indeed a brake linkage. It runs from one set of brakes, to the other set.

 

Ian

[NCB]

Thanks, Ian & Adam

 

When I saw it in the original pics I wondered if it was part of some ingenious tracking system for long wheelbase vehicles, bit like a Cleminson system without the middle axle. Obviously not!

 

Nigel

[Garethp8873]

Marvellous to see once another two GWR Toads in this year's 2020 range in post-1936 livery and BR livery. Of the two though, the BR one interests me more though due to the framing that has been added...

[Miss Prism]

68611 looks good, from the correct AA15 batch, and with a prototypical allocation.

 

Not sure where 68604 (with the diagonal bracing) came from though - I don't think any AA15s had such bracing, so I guess Hornby has copied a preserved rebuild.

 

 

[Garethp8873]

12 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

68611 looks good, from the correct AA15 batch, and with a prototypical allocation.

 

Not sure where 68604 (with the diagonal bracing) came from though - I don't think any AA15s had such bracing, so I guess Hornby has copied a preserved rebuild.

 

 

 

Only one I know that still has the diagonal bracing on it preservation wise is the example on the Bluebell Railway, but this is to the AA13 diagram (17908 built in 1913).

[Porcy Mane]

3 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Not sure where 68604 (with the diagonal bracing) came from though - I don't think any AA15s had such bracing, so I guess Hornby has copied a preserved rebuild.

 

That was my thinking, the AA13 having the fully planked cabin, Spindle buffers and (Without checking my references) different spring hangers and springs.  (Shuffles off to see if I can find a photo of an AA15 with the long {as opposed to short bracing}.

[Miss Prism]

14 hours ago, Garethp8873 said:

Only one I know that still has the diagonal bracing on it preservation wise is the example on the Bluebell Railway, but this is to the AA13 diagram (17908 built in 1913).

 

There's quite a few preserved toads with diagonal bracing. In addition to 17908, the ones with the diagonal style used by Hornby are also AA13s, but the AA11s were rolled into the AA13 index at some late stage, so these may or may not be authentic:

 

17898

(unnumbered)

56518

17861

 

As far as I know, no Toads with metal plating over the cabin sides had diagonal bracing.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Miss Prism

[Wickham Green]

13 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

................ As far as I know, no Toads with metal plating over the cabin sides had diagonal bracing.

 

The plating performed the same function of preventing the body racking under braking force ..... presumably this was a problem that manifested itself after a few years.

[Coach bogie]

On 06/01/2020 at 22:35, Miss Prism said:

 

As far as I know, no Toads with metal plating over the cabin sides had diagonal bracing.

 

Unusual one here with metal plating and multiple diagonals that stop at the plating

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Nile]

Did nobody notice this come and go at Hatton's?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/513919/hornby_r6941_ex_gwr_aa15_toad_20_ton_brake_van_w68604_in_br_grey/stockdetail.aspx

I expect some that pre-ordered this are going to be disappointed with that diagonal bracing.

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, Nile said:

Did nobody notice this come and go at Hatton's?

https://www.hattons.co.uk/513919/hornby_r6941_ex_gwr_aa15_toad_20_ton_brake_van_w68604_in_br_grey/stockdetail.aspx

I expect some that pre-ordered this are going to be disappointed with that diagonal bracing.

 

Oh dear. A shameful effort at an AA11 by using painted stripes. I'm sure Hornby could have chosen a proper AA15.

  

[gwrrob]

15 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Oh dear. A shameful effort at an AA11 by using painted stripes. I'm sure Hornby could have chosen a proper AA15.

  

 

Liberty taken again just like their 'N13' horsebox recently released. Bull**** baffles brains.

[TrevorP1]

That’s a shame. I could have lived with it not being strictly accurate but painted stripes... 

 

Never mind, that’s saved me £20!

[tomparryharry]

Toad brake vans went in for overhaul, roughly at a 7-year interval. Things like springs , buffers and axles. If any bodywork was required, it sometimes had a rebuild to the latest specification. In this case, AA19-20 toads morphed into AA23 spec, purely by replacing damaged or life-expired items. One of the greatest problems facing modellers is the (correct) location of photos for a specific model, where the running number 'sort of' doesn't match the photo. Usually it's not the fault of the modeller, or the researcher.  The van in question has gone to Carriage & Wagon, where they've performed their 'magic'. 

 

Plus, of course, 'local repairs'.

 

Have fun!

Ian.

[tomparryharry]

On 08/01/2020 at 20:47, Coach bogie said:

Unusual one here with metal plating and multiple diagonals that stop at the plating

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Hello Mike, your photo shows a vacuum-fitted variety. The line of rivets on the verandah plating are there for a strengthening angle. There will be  extra space to accommodate the vacuum cylinder, hence the extra angle. Can't see a brake setter valve, though, or a vacuum gauge. Hmm.... I think you can make out a vac bag just under the buffers.  I've just noticed the van is branded 25 tons, and the handrails are the earlier type. I'd suggest that the extra diagonals are there due to the heavier vehicle weight. dry-type sandboxes, but I can't make out the front operating lever. 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Hello Mike, your photo shows a vacuum-fitted variety. The line of rivets on the verandah plating are there for a strengthening angle. There will be  extra space to accommodate the vacuum cylinder, hence the extra angle. Can't see a brake setter valve, though, or a vacuum gauge. Hmm.... I think you can make out a vac bag just under the buffers.  I've just noticed the van is branded 25 tons, and the handrails are the earlier type. I'd suggest that the extra diagonals are there due to the heavier vehicle weight. dry-type sandboxes, but I can't make out the front operating lever. 

 

A genuine question - not a contradiction. How do you identify this as vacuum-fitted? What I see below the buffers are the coupling hook and the Instanter coupling links - no vacuum bag; I can see no feature that says vacuum-fitted.

 

I think that the somewhat rustic, brick-built, second chimney is a less than common variant, too !!

 

John Isherwood.

[TrevorP1]

3 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Toad brake vans went in for overhaul, roughly at a 7-year interval. Things like springs , buffers and axles. If any bodywork was required, it sometimes had a rebuild to the latest specification. In this case, AA19-20 toads morphed into AA23 spec, purely by replacing damaged or life-expired items. One of the greatest problems facing modellers is the (correct) location of photos for a specific model, where the running number 'sort of' doesn't match the photo. Usually it's not the fault of the modeller, or the researcher.  The van in question has gone to Carriage & Wagon, where they've performed their 'magic'. 

 

Plus, of course, 'local repairs'.

 

Have fun!

Ian.

I keep thinking about this. I wonder if anyone on here has seen an actual model? KMRC appear to have them in stock. Surely in this day and age a manufacturer wouldn’t resort to a painted on angle iron? I’m still hoping that the images we’ve seen are some sort of photoshopped impression by Hornby’s promotional folk.

 

In the light of TPH’s comments above I’d be happy with the model otherwise.

[Steamport Southport]

I don't think it is vacuum braked. No valve on the cab end.

 

If fitted the vacuum dome was in the middle with two sand boxes at the side. The rivets are where the sandboxes were attached with a rudimental seat in the middle. On a fitted version the seat was replaced by the vacuum dome.

 

 

You can see the brake valve on this one.

 

 

 

 

Jason

Edited September 2, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[Porcy Mane]

4 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

The van in question has gone to Carriage & Wagon, where they've performed their 'magic'. 

 

Looks very much like a pre 1910 bog standard AA2 brake to my eyes, with no vac gear & the couplings upgraded to welded instanters.

 

P

Edited September 2, 2020 by Porcy Mane

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

A genuine question - not a contradiction. How do you identify this as vacuum-fitted? What I see below the buffers are the coupling hook and the Instanter coupling links - no vacuum bag; I can see no feature that says vacuum-fitted.

 

I think that the somewhat rustic, brick-built, second chimney is a less than common variant, too !!

 

John Isherwood.

 

Hello John. The vertical line of rivets on the verandah fix a strengthening angle iron inside the verandah itself. On a non-fitted toad, the rear bench & sandboxes sit transversely across. On a vac fitted version, the rear bench is cut short to accept the vacuum cylinder. To help retain some of its rigidity, those vertical irons affix the sandboxes, one either side. I did make up a set of drawings to convert the AA23-type van (non fitted) to the more desirable AA21 (fitted) type. 

 

As I've said, the apparent lack of an operating lever, vacuum gauge and Vacuum valve seems a bit odd. Perhaps it's just the angle of the photo.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

[tomparryharry]

57 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

I don't think it is vacuum braked. No valve on the cab end.

 

If fitted the vacuum dome was in the middle with two sand boxes at the side. The rivets are where the sandboxes were attached with a rudimental seat in the middle. On a fitted version the seat was replaced by the vacuum dome.

 

 

You can see the brake valve on this one.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

That one looks to be through piped. I've never, ever seen 2 lamp brackets on the rear verandah. The drip edge on the stable door looks non-standard, but a clever modification, nonetheless. I can't see the sandbox levers on either end. 

[tomparryharry]

17 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Looks very much like a pre 1910 bog standard AA2 brake to my eyes, with no vac gear & the couplings upgraded to welded instanters.

 

P

 

You could well be right. My observations lead to the vac-fitted variety purely on the vertical line of rivets. I wouldn't guess Swindon would do it, unless there's a reason. 

 

We could find out easily. Time machine, anyone?  Your observation rather re-inforces my point, where a photo sort of 'not quite right'.  Apart from the instanter, what do you see just below the buffer shanks & the headstock?