Hornby announce Class 800 IEP

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

Interesting to hear they’ve only had a total of 4 people contact them. I’ll admit I’m guilty of not raising the issue with them as of yet. I’ll probably wait until I have the class 802 5 car pack too just incase there are and subtle differences between that and the previous releases. But I’ll certainly make a note to inform them after then. Maybe it’s just the wording used but also does surprise me that it seems no one replied to them after fixing their issue? Surly that’s just as important in diagnosing the cause of the problem.

[3rd Rail Exile]

58 minutes ago, Bryn_Bach_Railway said:

Interesting to hear they’ve only had a total of 4 people contact them. I’ll admit I’m guilty of not raising the issue with them as of yet. I’ll probably wait until I have the class 802 5 car pack too just incase there are and subtle differences between that and the previous releases. But I’ll certainly make a note to inform them after then. Maybe it’s just the wording used but also does surprise me that it seems no one replied to them after fixing their issue? Surly that’s just as important in diagnosing the cause of the problem.

I'm one of those who had contacted Hornby directly (on my retailer's advice), and was advised by them to check that the axles on each coach were rotating correctly, and to lubricate them. That was "only" 7 days ago, and since then "real life" has meant that I haven't had as much time as I'd like to spend tinkering on the model railway... 

 

I did manage to do some lubrication, and like you I've found that (particularly on the axles of the 4-coach pack) it has made a significant improvement. However, I'm still not 100% happy, so I intend to repeat the process - it seemed that the bearings were so dry that the lubricant was being absorbed...

 

My attention has also been diverted by the arrival of some Accurascale Class 66s, so the IET is currently sitting patiently awaiting its turn. Once I've given it a second dose of lubrication and some further testing I will feed back both to Hornby and the retailer - I didn't see much point in replying to them until I was happy that I'd done all I can, it's just taken a little longer than expected! 

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

For anyone who might be interested here, Fyfield Junction has posted an update video covering much of what was already investigated and posted here but in a video format. Might be easier for some people and also shows some running shots of a full 9 car finally working after oiling the axels. They’ve also added some weight to the power car just to improve performance that little bit more, they do however state that extra weight could well be a layout dependent modification.

[GrumpyPenguin]

Blanked out windows hiding the mechanism ? - looks a bit "it'll do" to me.

As for the bearing design - that seems to be a retrograde set.

Informative clip but too much hand waving.

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

the blanked out windows are present on the real things however they are only at the first class end, as replicated on the models. I believe they hide the kitchen area for pullman dining services. as far as I know the bearing design is the same on all the 80x's Hornby have done.

 

[Oldddudders]

44 minutes ago, Bryn_Bach_Railway said:

the blanked out windows are present on the real things however they are only at the first class end, as replicated on the models. I believe they hide the kitchen area for pullman dining services. as far as I know the bearing design is the same on all the 80x's Hornby have done.

 

The trolley services for both first and standard classes are provided from the blanked-out window area. 

[GrumpyPenguin]

Thanks fot clarifying the windows guys.

[Lyddrail]

My friend popped over yesterday to test his new 800. The motor coach could not pull the full length train. With two coaches removed it could pull the train if you pushed the motor coach to get it started. It could not push the train at all. After running the train a few laps my DC controller indicated an overload and stopped! After cooling down it did run again but but just as badly. Looking at the motor coach I was surprised there was no motor in the body! The motors are in the two bogies and they must be very small with the size of the bogies. Reminds me of the poor motor in the Networker model.  I saw this topic and told my friend to contact the shop he got it from to report the problem. I think it will take some big changes to get it to pull a full rake. We will see. Shame with such a good looking model.  

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

2 hours ago, Lyddrail said:

Looking at the motor coach I was surprised there was no motor in the body! The motors are in the two bogies and they must be very small with the size of the bogies.

The motors are not in the bogies, there’s a big motor behind the blocked out windows. If you look closely through the windows you’ll see a drive shaft connecting the rear bogie (Pic below). It can’t haul the set due to no grease being applied in the factory, once the coaches are all greased the model can haul the coaches just fine.

 

pic is a screen shot from the following video by Fyfield Junction (again, there getting some serious promotion in this thread 😂) showing a bogie replacement.

 

 

Edited June 10 by Bryn_Bach_Railway

[Lyddrail]

Thanks for correcting me. My friend today oiled the axles and was able to run a seven coach train forwards and backwards. But it will not pull the other two coaches. Likely needs weight in the motor coach.

Cheers.

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, Bryn_Bach_Railway said:

The motors are not in the bogies, there’s a big motor behind the blocked out windows. If you look closely through the windows you’ll see a drive shaft connecting the rear bogie (Pic below). It can’t haul the set due to no grease being applied in the factory, once the coaches are all greased the model can haul the coaches just fine.

 

pic is a screen shot from the following video by Fyfield Junction (again, there getting some serious promotion in this thread 😂) showing a bogie replacement.

 

 

 

 

interestingly that motor looks like the same motor used in the Hattons /Accurascale class 66, Dapol 73 and Hornby 87 amongst several others….

 

how does a class 66 get on pulling the coaches, with 700g of class 66 to give it traction I wonder ? (There is an NEM coupling hidden in the nose of the Azuma behind the cover), if someone wants to attempt “a drag” using the dummy end and leaving out the powered car?
 

 

Edited June 10 by adb968008

[Sweetling Park]

My thanks to @Bryn_Bach_Railway for the informative updates and I'm pleased to hear that the problem is fixable.  I haven't had a chance to watch the videos yet, but I was wondering if anyone could advise what grease is best to use, please?  I'm waiting for my LNER set and hope that will be fine out of the box, but I'll certainly look out for that.

 

 

On 06/06/2024 at 13:43, Bryn_Bach_Railway said:

Interesting to hear they’ve only had a total of 4 people contact them.

 

[...]

 

Maybe it’s just the wording used but also does surprise me that it seems no one replied to them after fixing their issue? Surly that’s just as important in diagnosing the cause of the problem.

Yes, it is interesting to hear that the problem is only affecting a small number of packs so far.  It could be that only a small batch is affected, or others haven't realised the problem yet, perhaps.  I agree that providing an update to the manufacturer is important, as it can help narrow down the problem area to look for and know what to look for in the future.

[Benjamin Brady]

Good Afternoon, 

 

I have a LNER azuma on order and have been following this with interest. 

 

My dad has the GWR 9 Car and has informed me that he has spoken with Hornby who have said they have now accepted this is a serious issue and as a result have kept the LNER 801 back until the issue is resolved. 

 

I shall wait to see where else this goes now 

[Sweetling Park]

12 minutes ago, Benjamin Brady said:

Good Afternoon, 

 

I have a LNER azuma on order and have been following this with interest. 

 

My dad has the GWR 9 Car and has informed me that he has spoken with Hornby who have said they have now accepted this is a serious issue and as a result have kept the LNER 801 back until the issue is resolved. 

 

I shall wait to see where else this goes now 

Thank you for the update and that is interesting to hear.  I was hoping that they would address the issue before releasing the 801/2 LNER variant, but as they're now holding it back, hopefully it will be OK when it is finally released.

 

Hopefully they'll also provide a solution to those with the GWR 802/1 9 car sets, once they have identified the problem.  I hope for those affected it is an easy fix.

 

It will be interesting to see if the 802/2 TPE and 803 Lumo packs are affected, though they're only 5 car as opposed to 9 car, so hopefully not.

Edited June 18 by Sweetling Park

[Shaun66]

14 minutes ago, Benjamin Brady said:

Good Afternoon, 

 

I have a LNER azuma on order and have been following this with interest. 

 

My dad has the GWR 9 Car and has informed me that he has spoken with Hornby who have said they have now accepted this is a serious issue and as a result have kept the LNER 801 back until the issue is resolved. 

 

I shall wait to see where else this goes now 

I managed to get mine to move after lubricating and adding a significant amount of weight to the motor unit as pictured but it does still struggle to get moving. I have in my contact with Hornby suggest that pin point axles need to be used on bogies that can have it. Glad they have accepted it is a serious issue now so shall have to see what remedy they come up with. 

[Benjamin Brady]

I have to say that is some serious weight being added into the unit, it is going to be the next step. He was unsure on tampering to much, giving Hornby the chance to see if they have any alternatives. 

 

At least your unit is running which is good, hopefully my dad shall be able to get his running with some oil and weight. 

 

Ps Folly Lane is a great layout Shaun 66

[Shaun66]

1 minute ago, Benjamin Brady said:

I have to say that is some serious weight being added into the unit, it is going to be the next step. He was unsure on tampering to much, giving Hornby the chance to see if they have any alternatives. 

 

At least your unit is running which is good, hopefully my dad shall be able to get his running with some oil and weight. 

 

Ps Folly Lane is a great layout Shaun 66

 

Was some weight I added, 85g in total, I find the rear of the motor coach to be quiet light plus the weights can be removed if needed. I did start of with just putting oil on the axles but it was still struggling which is why I decided to add extra weight but I am still mindful that the motor has a lot of stress added to it. Lets hope that Hornby will solve the issue and offer it to any owners of this unit.

 

Ps thanks for the comment on Folly Lane, although I and others have to credit the previous owner, you'll be able to see it at the NEC in November.

[Bill Radford]

On 10/06/2024 at 22:02, adb968008 said:

 

 

interestingly that motor looks like the same motor used in the Hattons /Accurascale class 66, Dapol 73 and Hornby 87 amongst several others….

 

how does a class 66 get on pulling the coaches, with 700g of class 66 to give it traction I wonder ? (There is an NEM coupling hidden in the nose of the Azuma behind the cover), if someone wants to attempt “a drag” using the dummy end and leaving out the powered car?
 

 

13 coaches (6 of them pullman) behind 66004 with no problem until westhill magnets gave up!!

[georgeds]

Had notification from TMC that the LNER Azuma set plus coach pack are due into stock soon and asking for payment.

[Sweetling Park]

On 09/07/2024 at 22:29, georgeds said:

Had notification from TMC that the LNER Azuma set plus coach pack are due into stock soon and asking for payment.

That is interesting to hear.  I believe they were due to be released soon as Hornby's website stated a release date of Summer 2024.  I haven't yet received the usual in stock/payment request email, so after checking the website again the date has now been removed, which would suggest it has been delayed until further notice.  This may be related to the problems with the GWR set, but that is purely a guess.

[Sweetling Park]

I received an email this morning to say that both the LNER Azuma train and coach packs have come into stock at the Hornby warehouse.  As pre-order payments are now being taken, I envisage that they will be dispatched in the coming days.  Let's just hope they don't suffer the same issues as the GWR set. 😊

[Bob83a]

Have Hornby published a “fix” for the haulage issue, or better an upgrade kit.

 

I assume that any fix would apply to the 5 car units as well as the full 9 car set even though not strictly necessary.

 

If Hornby are not releasing a fix kit then I would hope they could at least publish a recommended list of changes/parts (e.g. weights and where to place them, where to apply oil etc). From the video’s earlier it this thread it looks like some people have used weight kits as sold by various suppliers, But they do not seem to fit very well and appear to be cram in as much as possible even if it is not spread out over both bogies.

[Shaun66]

12 hours ago, Bob83a said:

Have Hornby published a “fix” for the haulage issue, or better an upgrade kit.

 

I assume that any fix would apply to the 5 car units as well as the full 9 car set even though not strictly necessary.

 

If Hornby are not releasing a fix kit then I would hope they could at least publish a recommended list of changes/parts (e.g. weights and where to place them, where to apply oil etc). From the video’s earlier it this thread it looks like some people have used weight kits as sold by various suppliers, But they do not seem to fit very well and appear to be cram in as much as possible even if it is not spread out over both bogies.

As one of those that has emailed Hornby, I have yet to hear anything back, I’ll be emailing again to see if they have any update. 

[Benjamin Brady]

Yes I would like to ensure there is a fix before parting with a sizeable amount of money on something that is not really going to run 

[chrisdartwell]

My LNER Azuma set with the extra coach pack arrived today, and much like the GWR ones others have had issues with, this also cannot handle the full 9 car rake.

 

The coaches are very resistant and compared to the GWR Trainbow set they are noticeably much more resistant runners (if you push and let go they barely move whereas the GWR will go 30-40cm). The power car struggles on my flat layout with just the 4 other coaches from the train pack.

 

With the additional coach pack added the unit can't move from a stand - if you give it a push it will move but then grind to a halt. I've spent the afternoon lubricating the axles and the unit can now push 5 coaches plus the dummy driving car before it wheelspins, but as soon as you add the extra 2 it grinds to a halt again.

 

With the reports from GWR customers and the suggestion that Hornby had delayed the release of this I had been under the impression there might be a fix forthcoming that would be applied to these, but I believe the issue is the choice of a plastic power car chassis - it needs to have more metal content like the HST - one of those can happily tow 15+ coaches and a dummy on my layout which is almost perfectly flat.

 

Will speak to Hornby on Monday - but would be good to hear the experience of others who may have preordered with Hornby and got theirs over the past couple of days.

Edited August 3 by chrisdartwell
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