Exhibition Insurance

[Phil Parker]

21 hours ago, 37114 said:

Interestingly I have received the final detail confirmations for a show next month and on the letter the organisers have said they are no longer insuring the visiting layouts as it is too expensive to do so and exhibitors should get their own cover.

 

At which point I'd either pull out, or organise my own insurance and put it on the expenses bill - after all, it IS an expence of attending the show in the same way petrol is.

 

TBH though, I think I'd just pull out.

 

13 minutes ago, TheQ said:

For me the worry is not the layout itself, insurance that covered it's full rebuild, would mean the layout is no longer mine it would be someone else's build.   Insurance for materials? unless the place burnt down, most of the layout would survive even if someone fell on it..

So the main insurance for me would be loss of movables, locos, carriages wagons etc.. At any show that was overnight I'd remove the removables into their case and take it with me. N and EM gauge that is, larger that would be a problem..

 

I had to claim on the Chiltern Insurance  when all my stock was nicked from the back of our van in the late 90's. One of the replacement (moslty kit built) locos was rebuilt by a professional, but the others I sorted myself. The payment took a little out of the pain though. Realistically, if the layout was destroyed, then the chances are you'd build your own replacement, and probably something different anyway, but again, the money takes away a little of the pain. Not much though.

[5944]

On 05/10/2022 at 12:38, 37114 said:

Interestingly I have received the final detail confirmations for a show next month and on the letter the organisers have said they are no longer insuring the visiting layouts as it is too expensive to do so and exhibitors should get their own cover. As it is a local small 1 day show then the risk is low and I will take the risk this time but after Market Deeping I would consider pulling out if it was a long distance 2 day show or at least providing an expenses claim to the organiser for the insurance.

That seems an odd stance for them to take. Pay £100-150 for insurance for the show, or run the risk of a dozen operators each charging £50 extra in expenses. I'd certainly think twice about taking a layout there. It's not just the show itself, what about during unloading or loading the van/car? Lots of handy, easily carried boxes full of expensive stock, and no control over who can access the area - see @Phil Parker's comment about getting stock stolen from the van. 

[Chris M]

The Warley NEC show (coming soon on 26th & 27th November) uses Magnet insurance as well - the cost to Warley club is just a little more than £125.44 though. There again there are 100 layouts and over 300 stands in total so you would expect the insurance to be a little more.  One problem is that, as prices for models go up, insurance values for layouts also goes up and therefore premiums will do likewise.

[AY Mod]

On 05/10/2022 at 12:38, 37114 said:

Interestingly I have received the final detail confirmations for a show next month and on the letter the organisers have said they are no longer insuring the visiting layouts as it is too expensive to do so and exhibitors should get their own cover. As it is a local small 1 day show then the risk is low and I will take the risk this time but after Market Deeping I would consider pulling out if it was a long distance 2 day show or at least providing an expenses claim to the organiser for the insurance.

 

Now I know you're a decent and amiable bloke Rob so I admire that you've made your own assessment. I'd probably tell them "No thanks" to be honest - not necessarily because of the risk to the layout and models but if they're not insuring the exhibitors are they taking out proper public liability? So if your electrics start a blaze causing death or injury where will the liability rest? They probably haven't considered those sorts of implications and what the potential impacts are on you and on them - I think I'd be giving that one a wide berth. Low likelihood/high impact.

[Burnham-on-sea]

I took Bridgford to two Crewe Open Days, in 2003 and 2005. The layouts were in an open fronted shed. I asked about insurance on the Sat afternoon to be told that was up to me. No mention had been made when I was booked. I took all my locos home that night. In 2005 another club member and I were invited and as we had enjoyed the previous attendance  we took out insurance ourselves. I put my locos on each morning for safety. If I remember correctly we were in a shed with large doors that time. There were no expenses given, looking back I wouldn't exhibit under those conditions again. Alastair.

[BoD]

2 hours ago, 5944 said:

That seems an odd stance for them to take. Pay £100-150 for insurance for the show, or run the risk of a dozen operators each charging £50 extra in expenses.

We are assuming that they are actually using Magnet to get that price.  Might they not unwittingly have gone to another insurer who, not being familiar with the situation, has quoted them a ridiculous premium.  
 

£100-£150 seems a very reasonable amount for any organiser to pay to protect those kind enough to provide the layouts necessary to put on their show and for their own peace of mind.  Or have margins become that slim/financial risks such an unknown  post-covid?

[298]

7 hours ago, Burnham-on-sea said:

I took Bridgford to two Crewe Open Days, in 2003 and 2005. The layouts were in an open fronted shed. I asked about insurance on the Sat afternoon to be told that was up to me. No mention had been made when I was booked. I took all my locos home that night. In 2005 another club member and I were invited and as we had enjoyed the previous attendance  we took out insurance ourselves. I put my locos on each morning for safety. If I remember correctly we were in a shed with large doors that time. There were no expenses given, looking back I wouldn't exhibit under those conditions again. Alastair.

 

When we took a layout to the NRM the usual insurance company added the risk to the club's existing policy free of charge. @great centralmight be able to confirm whether Magnet were the insurers.

 

Apart from a handful of dreadful cases already mentioned I can't recall any issues that have resulted in a claim aside from theft from trade stands at certain larger shows. As a modeller and infrequent exhibitor I have to accept what would happen if something was damaged or pilfered, hence one of the reasons why I tend to prefer 3d printing for models because once the initial design work has been done it's relatively quick straightforward to build a replacement.

[37114]

Thanks for all the replies re my post. @AY Mod Andy has me thinking re the PLI bit so I am going to check with them on thata s while I think the risk of damage to the layout is low, I am more concerned re the Public liability element. i.e. little Jonnie cuts themselves on a sharp edge and then who are they suing!

[great central]

9 hours ago, 298 said:

 

When we took a layout to the NRM the usual insurance company added the risk to the club's existing policy free of charge. @great centralmight be able to confirm whether Magnet were the insurers.

 

 

 

Crumbs, that's a long time ago now!

As far as I remember it was done as you said. Magnet have specialised in model railway insurance for many years and, although I'm no longer personally involved with such things, always seem to offer reasonable rates and excellent back up.

More recent treasurers have tried to obtain a better price, particularly for our clubhouse building but most of the time it seems any other company quoting simply doesn't understand the particular area of the business. 

I believe the Chiltern scheme is, or was at least, done through Magnet as well?

[Mike Bellamy]

55 minutes ago, great central said:

I believe the Chiltern scheme is, or was at least, done through Magnet as well?

 

It is arranged by Magnet in just the same way but there is a 10% discount for CMRA member organisations. Well worth it as the discount on a large exhibition is much more than the annual membership fee. When looking at the list of CMRA members, I'm rather surprised to see that several well-known clubs who organise major exhibitions are not members.

.

[MarkC]

4 hours ago, 37114 said:

I am more concerned re the Public liability element. i.e. little Jonnie cuts themselves on a sharp edge and then who are they suing!

Given the litigious society we now live in, driven/compounded by the avaricious Kom-pen-say-shun legal machine, this is so important. I hope you get the answer you need.

[37114]

6 hours ago, MarkC said:

Given the litigious society we now live in, driven/compounded by the avaricious Kom-pen-say-shun legal machine, this is so important. I hope you get the answer you need.

Thanks Mark, the show have confirmed that PLI is in place so all good!

[Gilbert]

2 minutes ago, 37114 said:

Thanks Mark, the show have confirmed that PLI is in place so all good!

Let's hope not insuring layouts is not a false economy - if something happens to someone's layout through no fault of the owner  it may be that a claim could be made against the organisers anyway......any lawyers out there?

Edited October 7, 2022 by Gilbert

[Phil Parker]

6 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Let's hope not insuring layouts is not a false economy - if something happens to someone's layout through no fault of the owner  it may be that a claim could be made against the organisers anyway......any lawyers out there?

 

Taking the show organisers to court is likely to be more expensive than any money you are likely to recieve. Unless you can find lawyers who will work for free. 

[Gilbert]

22 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Taking the show organisers to court is likely to be more expensive than any money you are likely to recieve. Unless you can find lawyers who will work for free. 

I know - I was being a little mischievous....I have a good friend who is a lawyer who would never use one herself!

Chris