'New Colletts from Old'

[Miss Prism]

The gangway situation is complex, and I don't pretend to know much about it, but the H26, along with the rest of the South Wales stock, was initially fitted with Pullman gangways. (As well as Laycock buckeyes.) They might have kept those Pullman gangways. 'Gangway adaptors' were fitted later (late '30s) to some other general-purpose 'suspended gangway' stock to facilitate interworking with the Pullman type and non-GWR stock.

[lofty1966]

The gangway situation is complex, and I don't pretend to know much about it, but the H26, along with the rest of the South Wales stock, was initially fitted with Pullman gangways. (As well as Laycock buckeyes.) They might have kept those Pullman gangways. 'Gangway adaptors' were fitted later (late '30s) to some other general-purpose 'suspended gangway' stock to facilitate interworking with the Pullman type and non-GWR stock.

Russell shows Pullman connections. I thought/presumed the pix were in BR days.

Guess I should treat myself to some then.

[lofty1966]

I know we have moved into some serious modification of Hornby's Colletts but while I was searching my basement for some parts , one of my early "breathed on" efforts came to hand.

You dont have to go mad to bring them up several notches

[Horsetan]

.....You dont have to go mad to bring them up several notches...

...but it helps.

[Siberian Snooper]

The gangway situation is complex, and I don't pretend to know much about it, but the H26, along with the rest of the South Wales stock, was initially fitted with Pullman gangways. (As well as Laycock buckeyes.) They might have kept those Pullman gangways. 'Gangway adaptors' were fitted later (late '30s) to some other general-purpose 'suspended gangway' stock to facilitate interworking with the Pullman type and non-GWR stock.

 

I was under the impresion that the South Wales stock used Pullman gangways on the bow ended, buckeye ends and traditional suspended gangways on the flat ended, screw coupling ends.

[Coach bogie]

I was under the impresion that the South Wales stock used Pullman gangways on the bow ended, buckeye ends and traditional suspended gangways on the flat ended, screw coupling ends.

Only during the buckeye coupling experiments. When the buckeyes were removed, suspended gangways were fitted.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[lofty1966]

Only during the buckeye coupling experiments. When the buckeyes were removed, suspended gangways were fitted.

 

Mike Wiltshire

So suspended is ok ?

I have put scissor gangways on most of the 70ft stock I am making (seems to be fitted in a lot of Russell's pictures)

[The Stationmaster]

The gangway situation is complex, and I don't pretend to know much about it, but the H26, along with the rest of the South Wales stock, was initially fitted with Pullman gangways. (As well as Laycock buckeyes.) They might have kept those Pullman gangways. 'Gangway adaptors' were fitted later (late '30s) to some other general-purpose 'suspended gangway' stock to facilitate interworking with the Pullman type and non-GWR stock.

 

The original Instruction (which I have a copy of) states that the vehicles were to be worked in sets on specified services and not mixed with other vehicles.  The only exception to that was a procedure for using a non-Buckeye fitted restaurant car should that be necessary. And of course modellers were not considered when such Instructions were prepared so it does not include a list of the vehicle running numbers.

[Miss Prism]

When were the buckeyes removed?

[HowardGWR]

When were the buckeyes removed?

Harris, page 75 says the first went in 1931 and this was not confirmed (that all were gone) until 1935 when in a response to someone's question in Railway Magazine it was stated that this was so.

 

Update: one of the few mistakes (I am pretty sure) in Harris is his diagram of the set arrangement.  See if you can spot it, if you have a copy.  The clue is in the symbol for buckeyes and that for screw.

Edited January 6, 2017 by HowardGWR

[Miss Prism]

Thanks, Howard - I had forgotten that bit! (And yes, the mistake in the diagram is rather obvious.)

 

I guess the 'coupling/gangway' issue casts a period caveat on the usual 'GWR = ragbag of any coaches' notion.

[HowardGWR]

Just getting down to solebar level now and looking at Russell photos, the side angled truss bars look square in profile, where the sun was shining on them in the photos.  The new Hornbys have them about 1.2 mm square, but Comet uses 0.5 mm thick nickel silver /brass and as a result they are correct for side profile but are rather thin in width.  Incidentally, this thinness and the fact that they are pointed at the end, makes for lethal handling.  I resorted to covering the etch with sellotape, but they still broke free to cause personal injury!

 

The Railroad ones are of course too wide-angled, so they don't reach far enough along the solebar, but at 1.2 mm by 1,5 mm, are acceptably robust; pity about the wrong angles and resultant length of them.

 

I get the idea that the new Hornbys have been carefully measured.  Would most here agree?  If so, then I wonder if anyone has thought of beefing up the Comet bars, by soldering / glueing  an equal thickness of n/s / brass behind them?

 

The cross bars on the new Hornbys are 1,6 mm thick in the horizontal width.  Again, looking at photos, this seems about right.  The Railroad doesn't model them.

 

As I am going to make new bars from plasticard for the model underframe components, does anyone have a view that the new Hornbys are correct?  I think Pete (K14) is away from DRC at present, but if anyone else is visiting, perhaps take your tape measure with you  - or perhaps you have a G.A. to hand at home?      

Edited January 8, 2017 by HowardGWR

[K14]

...or perhaps you have a G.A. to hand at home?   

 

 

3-1/2" x 3-1/2" x 1/2" angle with the horizontal portion on the bottom.

 

Edit to add this:—

 

 

P.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by K14

[Coach bogie]

This may help (ignore the hand brake)

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[HowardGWR]

You were about, thank you K14.  Angle?!   Well, well.  My next Q was going to be whether the trusses were solid or hollow but that is now clearly not needed to be asked.

 

I should have known.  So all the RTR models are wrong, as is Comet's underframe.   I went back to the Comet instructions and there was nothing there about soldering on some scrap brass to make the right angle.  I assume the angle is 90 degrees as indeed, you mention the horizontal portion.

 

I hardly dare asking about the bits between the queen posts, or indeed the queen posts themselves.  They seem to be of the same section.   I am not very good at reading these old G.A.s or the writing on them.

 

I've scoured Russell again and I can't see any of this properly, most underframe detail being in deep gloom on the photos, although there is a good multibar photo in Russell pages 84 and 250 of volume  2 (1903 -1948).

 

If I have misunderstood your kind reply, I apologise in advance. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by HowardGWR

[HowardGWR]

This may help (ignore the hand brake)

 

Collet 1925 uf.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Now I am confused.  It looks to be on top, not on the bottom?  That's why I thought it was a box and not an angle.  Help!

[Coach bogie]

Now I am confused.  It looks to be on top, not on the bottom?  That's why I thought it was a box and not an angle.  Help!

They were 'L' angle.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[John Isherwood]

Now I am confused.  It looks to be on top, not on the bottom?  That's why I thought it was a box and not an angle.  Help!

 

Perhaps the trusses have been renewed - or perhaps both configurations were used?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Miss Prism]

The horizontal was always on the bottom. edit: sorry, that was rubbish.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Miss Prism

[HowardGWR]

Once again thanks to both Pete and Mike.  It's clearly an optical illusion (subjective clearly) and I hope Pete will not think I was doubting his word.  Mike's superb photos are wonderfully clear. 

 

Now my next question is................  :-)

 

Actually, I do have a few more but it's getting late.  I hope some of these issues are of interest to colleagues.  Looking at the Comet etch again, the L shape could have been made available as a possible fold-down, as I see it.

 

I take John's warning; we do have to be careful with preservation ones but this case looks clear enough, as the example looks as though it's been back and forward from Pad to Penzance,  a bit!

[John Isherwood]

 

Once again thanks to both Pete and Mike.  It's clearly an optical illusion (subjective clearly) and I hope Pete will not think I was doubting his word.  Mike's superb photos are wonderfully clear. 

 

Now my next question is................  :-)

 

Actually, I do have a few more but it's getting late.  I hope some of these issues are of interest to colleagues.  Looking at the Comet etch again, the L shape could have been made available as a possible fold-down, as I see it.

 

I take John's warning; we do have to be careful with preservation ones but this case looks clear enough, as the example looks as though it's been back and forward from Pad to Penzance,  a bit!

 

 

There isn't any optical illusion going on in the photo in #239 - the flange is definitely on the top of the angle; click on it to enlarge it if you don't believe me.

 

On the other hand, in #242 it's definitely on the bottom; again, click on it to be sure.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Miss Prism]

John, yes, you are right!

 

I'm getting confused with the transverse sections and the longitudinals!

 

sorry

 

Another blow for Swindon 'standardisation'...

Edited January 8, 2017 by Miss Prism

[rovex]

You can get 1 mm brass angle. It would be easier to solder this onto the comet chassis. Or on the old Hornby chassis to make the trusses from this.

[Coach bogie]

The  Collett  in 239 is unrestored. The H41 below is as delivered from BR. The K42 is also unrestored and all have the flange on the top.

 

 

On the L23 TPO, various siphons aand others it is on the bottom.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[St Enodoc]

You can get 1 mm brass angle. It would be easier to solder this onto the comet chassis. Or on the old Hornby chassis to make the trusses from this.

For my ancient Traction Scale Models kits (similar to Westdale) and my Hornby H33 upgrade I made new trusses from 1 x 1 angle (from Eileen's - when it still was Eileen and Jim!), soldered to a new PCB floor.