Tri-ang Railways.

[5050]

Something I meant to do was photograph the loco chassis and motor as follows.  The motor is the early vertical commutator type with brass strip wipers, no carbon brushes here.  It is held within the chassis side frames and can only be removed by dismantling.  The frame spacers are a multi-plate construction rather than the later solid mazak casting.  However, for extra weight, there is a lead (?) weight glued inside the loco firebox.

 

First, two shots of the whole chassis.

 

 

And close-ups of the brush and commutator arrangement.

 

 

Not sure if the blue wire is original.

 

It would appear to be difficult to get into to clean the commutator but, with the brass strip wipers rather than carbon brushes, perhaps it would be less likely to need cleaning so often?

[Il Grifone]

The plunger Princesses are sought after, but I wouldn't be able to put a value. The coaches on the other hand are of little value. (I've got a couple somewhere, but they suffer badly from the banana effect.)

[5050]

The Trix AL1 was a 4mm OO gauge model as it was originally designed by Ernst Rosza for his compamy Miniature Construction Ltd, Liliput in Austria did much of the production, with final assembly by MCL in the UK It went on sale as an MCL product in late 1960. MCL sold the rights to Trix in 1962. That's why it doesn't look undersized, because it's not.

 

Here's a couple of the original MCL adverts in RM in late 1960,  The first full page doesn't show the price, the second smaller one does.  At £7 7s (or 7 Guineas) it seems quite expensive to me.  More than I was earning in a week some years later in fact.  To complement the adverts wording, some people must have had some very large pockets.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2017 by 5050

[sagaguy]

I don`t think that this model was ever tested with Catenary p/up in mind.They would snag on the Trix catenary wire supports because they were flat contact heads & would roll over & snag.I had to modify my model & stop the pan from swivelling.

 

 

                                            Ray.

 

                                  

[sagaguy]

In todays money,it would be £157.17 which i suppose is not too bad considering that an N gauge loco could be more than that.I paid £125 for my Trix AL1 which i suppose,given the rarity value,wasn`t too bad!!.

 

 

                                    Ray.

Edited August 2, 2017 by sagaguy

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here's a couple of the original MCL adverts in RM in late 1960,  The first full page doesn't show the price, the second smaller one does.  At £7 7s (or 7 Guineas) it seems quite expensive to me.  More than I was earning in a week some years later in fact.  To complement the adverts wording, some people must have had some very large pockets.

 

Lilliput Electric Oct 60.1.A.jpg

 

Lilliput Electric Dec 60.1.A.jpg

If in 1960 it was £7.7/- it certainly came down a lot when Trix got it as I have just received a November 65 RM and it is now only £5.19.6d RTR and 79/6d in kit form.

 

 

Ray, even Ebay's prices have gone up, my twin motored one was only £60 about 3 or 4 years ago.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

I suppose that`s inflation for you,mine didn`t come from Ebay but from a contact in the TTRCA.I honestly don`t know if any one buys the Trix or Lilliput AL1s on ebay,theyve been there for yonks.

 

                               Ray.

[john new]

If in 1960 it was £7.7/- it certainly came down a lot when Trix got it as I have just received a November 65 RM and it is now only £5.19.6d RTR and 79/6d in kit form.

 

 

Ray, even Ebay's prices have gone up, my twin motored one was only £60 about 3 or 4 years ago.

 

Garry

The kits of course were to get around Purchase Tax and Tri-ang had the equivalent CKD range for the same reason.

[Golden Fleece 30]

The kits of course were to get around Purchase Tax and Tri-ang had the equivalent CKD range for the same reason.

I knew of the CKD sets and had the Princess and a few coach ones but never knew it was to get around Purchase Tax.

 

Garry

[john new]

I knew of the CKD sets and had the Princess and a few coach ones but never knew it was to get around Purchase Tax.

 

Garry

All a long time ago but I'm sure that an assembled model was a taxable item whereas a kit wasn't.

[5050]

All a long time ago but I'm sure that an assembled model was a taxable item whereas a kit wasn't.

It was a common thing to see in other fields as well.  Some racing bike shops sold bikes as a collection of parts rather than complete.  For an ardent cyclist, putting a bike together is a pleasure, a bit like kit building.

 

Well, some kits anyway...................

[sagaguy]

There never used to be Purchase tax on tools but the catch all VAT sorted that one out.

 

                           Ray.

[Il Grifone]

Purchase tax (we can go back to it with Brexit!*) was extremely complicated. There were several rates depending on how essential a product was considered. Services and commercial transactions** were exempt (unlike VAT - it saved masses of red tape!). The top rate (usually 35% - it varied) looks exorbitant until it is considered it was levied on the wholesale price so for model trains at least (100% markup) it was roughly equivalent to the 20%  we pay today. Levied on everything, VAT was set at 10% but it was reduced to 8% as it was thought to bring in too much revenue. The aversion to direct taxation over the last 35 years has pushed it up to 20%.

 

IIRC spares parts weren't taxable (hence the kIts) but the assembled model counted as a toy and attracted the full luxury rate. I recall a cartoon showing a long queue (it was in a Hi-Fi magazine) outside the shop of a dubious looking character to buy valve amplifiers being sold as 'space heaters' (zero rated as a necessity) to the annoyance of the neighbouring dealer forced to levy the luxury rate.

 

* Don't hold your breath!

 

** I particularly object to paying tax on services and the other is pointless as the buyer claims it back - lots of work for accountants and huge possibilities for fraud.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Il Grifone

[locomad]

Levied on everything, VAT was set at 10% but it was reduced to 8% as it was thought to bring in too much revenue. The aversion to direct taxation over the last 35 years has pushed it up to 20%.

In the mid 70's there was 2 vat rates 8% & 25% for luxury goods, I can't remember if model trains were in the luxury bracket?

 

What I do remember well was sailing equipment, my first sailing dinghy was a kit so making it myself saved a lot of money as the wood was 8%, the silly thing was if you needed say rope of marine quality you could go to a yacht chandeliers ask for rope, the assistant would ask was it for a boat or household ? If you said for the house you got same stuff cheaper.

[roythebus]

In todays money,it would be £157.17 which i suppose is not too bad considering that an N gauge loco could be more than that.I paid £125 for my Trix AL1 which i suppose,given the rarity value,wasn`t too bad!!.

 

 

                                    Ray.

 

I paid £4/19/6d for mine as locobuilder kits back in the 1960's. I had about 5of them and sold them back in 1989 due to change of employment. Most of them ran on the MRC's New Annington layout. I still have one in the cabinet at home and another converted to a class 85. Another was converted to an AL6 back in the day.

 

ps why are we discussing Trix on the Triang page? there's a separate trix thread going.

Edited August 3, 2017 by roythebus

[St Enodoc]

In the mid 70's there was 2 vat rates 8% & 25% for luxury goods, I can't remember if model trains were in the luxury bracket?

 

What I do remember well was sailing equipment, my first sailing dinghy was a kit so making it myself saved a lot of money as the wood was 8%, the silly thing was if you needed say rope of marine quality you could go to a yacht chandeliers ask for rope, the assistant would ask was it for a boat or household ? If you said for the house you got same stuff cheaper.

25% was levied on yachts and chandlery as a poke in the eye for Ted Heath after he lost office in 1974.

[GoingUnderground]

Purchase tax (we can go back to it with Brexit!*) was extremely complicated. There were several rates depending on how essential a product was considered. Services and commercial transactions** were exempt (unlike VAT - it saved masses of red tape!). The top rate (usually 35% - it varied) looks exorbitant until it is considered it was levied on the wholesale price so for model trains at least (100% markup) it was roughly equivalent to the 20% we pay today. Levied on everything, VAT was set at 10% but it was reduced to 8% as it was thought to bring in too much revenue. The aversion to direct taxation over the last 35 years has pushed it up to 20%.

 

IIRC spares parts weren't taxable (hence the kIts) but the assembled model counted as a toy and attracted the full luxury rate. I recall a cartoon showing a long queue (it was in a Hi-Fi magazine) outside the shop of a dubious looking character to buy valve amplifiers being sold as 'space heaters' (zero rated as a necessity) to the annoyance of the neighbouring dealer forced to levy the luxury rate.

 

* Don't hold your breath!

 

** I particularly object to paying tax on services and the other is pointless as the buyer claims it back - lots of work for accountants and huge possibilities fpr fraud.

VAT makes very, very, very little work for accountants in modern computerised accounting systems. The computers do it all. Even in the days of manual accounting records it wasn't much work. I know, I've filled in VAT Returns, by hand, and had the pleasure of compliance visits from the VAT inspectors. Also it has the advantage over Purchase Tax that it is harder to avoid. Under Purchase Tax only the end consumer paid. With VAT a sale attracts the tax, whether it goes to another company or business, or to a consumer.

 

So you object to paying VAT in general, and on services in particular. Next time you or a member of your family needs the services of the NHS, or the police, fire services, or the local council or local school, or the Army, Navy, or RAF, or receive your state pension, winter fuel allowance, unemployment benefit, or any other of the many services and financial support that central and local government provide, console yourself that without the taxes that you, and many, many others pay, including me, there wouldn't be any such services and benefits.

 

If the tax wasn't raised via VAT, it would have to come from income tax or corporation tax. Would you like to pay more income tax? These two taxes, along with capital gains tax and inheritance tax make far, far, far, far more work for accountants, and lawyers, specifically in finding legal ways for their clients to minimise their tax lisbilities.

 

Yes, there are VAT fiddles, but they are usually the result of deliberate fraud by criminals, not accountants.

Edited August 3, 2017 by GoingUnderground

[NCB]

Kit cars were popular at one time simply because they avoided purchase tax. The Lotus 7 and Gilburn Invader were examples. With the change to VAT Gilburn went out of business, while Lotus concentrated on assembled cars.

[Il Grifone]

I paid £4/19/6d for mine as locobuilder kits back in the 1960's. I had about 5of them and sold them back in 1989 due to change of employment. Most of them ran on the MRC's New Annington layout. I still have one in the cabinet at home and another converted to a class 85. Another was converted to an AL6 back in the day.

 

ps why are we discussing Trix on the Triang page? there's a separate trix thread going.

 

Agreed, but It sort of followed on from EM2s, as these things do.

[Il Grifone]

VAT makes very, very, very little work for accountants in modern computerised accounting systems. The computers do it all. Even in the days of manual accounting records it wasn't much work. I know, I've filled in VAT Returns, by hand, and had the pleasure of compliance visits from the VAT inspectors. Also it has the advantage over Purchase Tax that it is harder to avoid. Under Purchase Tax only the end consumer paid. With VAT a sale attracts the tax, whether it goes to another company or business, or to a consumer.

 

So you object to paying VAT in general, and on services in particular. Next time you or a member of your family needs the services of the NHS, or the police, fire services, or the local council or local school, or the Army, Navy, or RAF, or receive your state pension, winter fuel allowance, unemployment benefit, or any other of the many services and financial support that central and local government provide, console yourself that without the taxes that you, and many, many others pay, including me, there wouldn't be any such services and benefits.

 

If the tax wasn't raised via VAT, it would have to come from income tax or corporation tax. Would you like to pay more income tax? These two taxes, along with capital gains tax and inheritance tax make far, far, far, far more work for accountants, and lawyers, specifically in finding legal ways for their clients to minimise their tax lisbilities.

 

Yes, there are VAT fiddles, but they are usually the result of deliberate fraud by criminals, not accountants.

 

 

I certainly don't object to paying tax in general. I realise the NHS etc. have to be paid for and I didn't accuse accountants of working fiddles, I just said there is the possibility of fraud. I don't see how taxing one transaction rather than several makes less work and reduces opportunities for fraud however.

 

Personally I recall paying much the same level of income tax and council tax (rates as it then was*) pre-VAT. The higher rates of income tax have been reduced dramatically downwards in the last decades and the emphasis shifted from direct to indirect taxes however. Generally the promise has been to not increase income tax - they've increased National Insurance, VAT and invented new taxes instead. Whether this stimulates the economy, as claimed, I wouldn't like to say (and it leads us into the forbidden zone of politics in any case).

 

* Now much simplified compared to previously, but not changed a lot for common mortals I was paying around £100 for a 3 bedroom house in 1975 and pay over £1000 today for a similar property, though not being in London it's worth considerably less.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Having bought an old Railway Modeller recently there was in it an article by Jack Dugdale of Ortogo fame. How many remember this layout and his fold up one?

 

Both layouts had Series 3 and possibly standard track used. Ortogo was full of gimmicks like a rabbit disappearing in its Warren when a train passed. With the fold up layout Jack would start a Jinty going and unfold the four sections or more as it travelled onto each new part. Once at the end he would do it in reverse folding it up while the loco went backwards.

 

The article was not about his layouts but a write up from him about one of his friends building a working 5 way point.

 

Garry

[28XX]

In the mid 70's there was 2 vat rates 8% & 25% for luxury goods, I can't remember if model trains were in the luxury bracket?

 

What I do remember well was sailing equipment, my first sailing dinghy was a kit so making it myself saved a lot of money as the wood was 8%, the silly thing was if you needed say rope of marine quality you could go to a yacht chandeliers ask for rope, the assistant would ask was it for a boat or household ? If you said for the house you got same stuff cheaper.

Bells for fire alarms, red, were 8%, the same bells for burglar alarms, grey, were 25%. Because you had to be rich to have anything worth stealing.

[Robin Brasher]

Coming back to Tri-ang Railways there were some Tri-ang items for sale at the last South Dorset Modellers meeting at Winterborne Kingston.

 

These included some Continental coaches.

 

The blue observation car was in the Australian Victorian State Railway livery whereas the green baggage car was probably in a fictitious livery but looked very attractive. The green coaches were only produced for two years from 1962 before the whole Transcontinental range was dropped in 1964. I think the range added some colour and variety to the Tri-ang range.

[Robin Brasher]

rix I paid £4/19/6d for mine as locobuilder kits back in the 1960's. I had about 5of them and sold them back in 1989 due to change of employment. Most of them ran on the MRC's New Annington layout. I still have one in the cabinet at home and another converted to a class 85. Another was converted to an AL6 back in the day.

 

ps why are we discussing Trix on the Triang page? there's a separate trix thread going.

It is one of the wonders of the RM web that you can have a topic about Tri-ang Railways and end up discussing a Trix locomotive, VAT and burglar alarms.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Coming back to Tri-ang Railways there were some Tri-ang items for sale at the last South Dorset Modellers meeting at Winterborne Kingston.

 

These included some Continental coaches.

 

The blue observation car was in the Australian Victorian State Railway livery whereas the green baggage car was probably in a fictitious livery but looked very attractive. The green coaches were only produced for two years from 1962 before the whole Transcontinental range was dropped in 1964. I think the range added some colour and variety to the Tri-ang range.

As a youngster without knowing anything about "Foreign" railways I always thought the Blue livery was South African (maybe as I had heard of the Blue train) and that the green were Australian (possibly as the cricketers always had the green hats lol).  I knew the silver version was American as that is all America seemed to have and it did look American but as you say it did add some colour.  I think the silver version also appeared with a red stripe or am I mistaken on that one?

 

Garry