Marshall5 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Unfortunately, I arrived on the 0 gauge scene too late to bag a SanCheng GWR Manor. But....I keep eyeing the Grange up. It was the first 4-6-0 to be bought for the 4mm Oswestry (pictured below). I think these locos have far more character than a Hall and they do kinda resemble the Manor..... WEB GWR Grange 1.jpg I was fortunate to buy my San Cheng Manor at an advantageous price when Randolph Chang was clearing out the factory in China. They still turn up fairly regularly on the G0G E&T site - in fact there's a San Cheng Grange on there at the moment for, a not unreasonable, 795 GBP. Although my spotting period at Oswestry 1961-5 was later than you are modelling I never saw a large Prairie there but there were always several Manors and a San Cheng one would be well worth waiting for. How about a nice 14xx for the Gobowen shuttle while you're waiting? Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 I was fortunate to buy my San Cheng Manor at an advantageous price when Randolph Chang was clearing out the factory in China. They still turn up fairly regularly on the G0G E&T site - in fact there's a San Cheng Grange on there at the moment for, a not unreasonable, 795 GBP. Although my spotting period at Oswestry 1961-5 was later than you are modelling I never saw a large Prairie there but there were always several Manors and a San Cheng one would be well worth waiting for. How about a nice 14xx for the Gobowen shuttle while you're waiting? Cheers, Ray.½ I was looking at a nice 14XX last night but I have to weigh up I could buy 3½ 64XX's for the asking price if i wait until March. Thanks for the heads up on the GOG Grange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Great Western Moguls (43XX class) were very common on the Cambrian system but I don't remember any being allocated to 89A when I was there. There is a web site that timed various Western Region trains along the Cambrian main line from Shrewsbury to Dovey Junction and beyond. Take a look at this timing, Mogul plus 10 on, 72mph at Cosford! I think in later times they were replaced by Standard Class moguls. I mention this because Heljan has announced a 43XX in RTR for release next year. Does anyone know the diagram of the autocoach(s) used on the Gobowen Rattler? JLTRT offers the 70ft Diagram L, with or without toplights. The Lionheart Dapol coach may be too old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 Does anyone know the diagram of the autocoach(s) used on the Gobowen Rattler? JLTRT offers the 70ft Diagram L, with or without toplights. The Lionheart Dapol coach may be too old. On 28th August 1952, the 12.50 auto train to Gobowen was two elderly 70' trailers, one at least being ex.steam railmotor. I don't know the period you are modelling though. A second working that day had a Hawksworth auto trailer coupled to a 70' panelled trailer. (The Cambrian Mainline - Foxline/Booklaw). I have a Lionhreart/Dapol Auto T. on pre-order. I've also got a B-set on pre-order (how lazy is that). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbuttler Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Unfortunately, I arrived on the 0 gauge scene too late to bag a SanCheng GWR Manor. But....I keep eyeing the Grange up. It was the first 4-6-0 to be bought for the 4mm Oswestry (pictured below). I think these locos have far more character than a Hall and they do kinda resemble the Manor..... Looking at what went through the works you can pretty much get away with anything you like except a King! I've a photo of Nannerth Grange in the works somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 This is a good website for second hand stock http://www.steamline.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 On 28th August 1952, the 12.50 auto train to Gobowen was two elderly 70' trailers, one at least being ex.steam railmotor. I don't know the period you are modelling though. A second working that day had a Hawksworth auto trailer coupled to a 70' panelled trailer. (The Cambrian Mainline - Foxline/Booklaw). I have a Lionhreart/Dapol Auto T. on pre-order. I've also got a B-set on pre-order (how lazy is that). Thanks for the reference and details. I only have photos of 1458 and 1459 from the front, pulling two coaches which I assume are auto trailers as the trains are sitting in the Gobowen bay at Oswestry. My time in Oswestry started in 1955 and that is when I rode the Rattler for the first time. The interiors of the auto trailers were old-ish to the eyes of a ten year old with GWR yellow on the interior walls. The Lionheart/Dapol auto trailer is based on one built in 1906, a lot older than one designed by Hawksworth, so it seems that almost any auto trailer could have been on the service in 1955. As I am getting on quite well with a JLTRT Mark 1 kit I think I will plan for one of their Diagram L coaches. When I say "quite well" my slight reservation is the lack of some detailed instructions for what to me is a different style of kit (polyurethane). For example there is no description of exactly how to attach the bogies to the body. However, once the first one is built I expect those that follow should be a lot quicker to assemble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 With two coaches to hand and a clear blue sky, a spot of measuring up was done this morning to see what length the platforms needs be. Normal service trains would be three coaches..... WEB 0 gauge brass 2.jpg .......But summer trains from Manchester were longer. The best I can do in the space is four coaches without fouling platform points unless Peco suddenly comes out with a 3-way.... WEB 0 gauge brass 3.jpg Larry the answer to this would be a Marcway threeway turnout prehaps built to your own spec......just a thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Back in July I posted a photo of a 54xx in the Gobowen bay at Oswestry. The first coach was an AA34 auto trailer W6820W which always seemed to be around at the time and could be the one in the photo above. This was one of a pair converted from brake 3rd's in 1938 and would make an interesting model being a bit different from the usual auto trailer. IIRC I read that the last of the Lionheart type trailers were withdrawn in 1957 so just in your time period. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 On the subject of Autotrailers, Orion do a kit for the A38 Autotrailer, which is all brass and nice crisp lost wax brass castings too, and makes up into a nice example. Orion Kits are marketed by Ragstone Models, I think the kit is circa £200 + wheels. There are some pictures of construction earlier on my Talyllyn thread. Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I've no idea where I got this image from but enjoy! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Sorry, duplicate post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 1438 at Oswestry stn Oct62.jpg I've no idea where I got this image from but enjoy! Dave Dave That is a very nostalgic photo! I suppose the first coach could well be that modified Brake 3rd mentioned by Ray above. But to make the auto train work the rear coach would have to be an auto trailer and, "of course", it is partially hidden from view. It would also seem to indicate from all the above posts that 1458 and 1459 were replaced by 1432 and 1438 some time around 1960. 1458 went to Gloucester according to some photos I have. It is also interesting that all the Oswestry 14XX locos seem not have had the top feed conversion, though this just could be a coincidence. I should also clear up one change of plans - I started out intending to model 1458 but I found there were better photos of 1459 so switched prototype. I believe 1459 was also unlined black, at least from the photos I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I think you'll find it was unlined grey! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 It would also seem to indicate from all the above posts that 1458 and 1459 were replaced by 1432 and 1438 some time around 1960. 1458 went to Gloucester according to some photos I have. This is 1458 at Kingsland in 1964 with what looks like an 89D shed plate. So maybe Gloucester just borrowed it? Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 It is also interesting that all the Oswestry 14XX locos seem not have had the top feed conversion, though this just could be a coincidence. 1432 with topfeed at Oswestry Sorry to contradict! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 1432 with topfeed at Oswestry 1432 at Oswestry 21Jul63.jpg Sorry to contradict! Dave Every rule can be broken! I stand corrected! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 The 14xx's are a real minefield for the modeller. Boilers, top feed and non top feed appeared to be swapped 'willy nilly'. For instance Oswestry's 1458 had a top feed boiler in 1961 but by 1964 it had a non top feed one. It also had the unusual combination of lined green with the old 'cycling lion' crest. I don't have a record of when it went to Gloucester but I noted it at Oswestry on 6/4/63 and there is a well known photo of it with 'The Earl' in the W&L exchange yard on 16/7/63. The Colour Rail site has multiple photos of most, if not all, of the 14xx class - mostly in colour and a good reference source. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 That is a very nostalgic photo! I suppose the first coach could well be that modified Brake 3rd mentioned by Ray above. But to make the auto train work the rear coach would have to be an auto trailer and, "of course", it is partially hidden from view. Both coaches were auto trailers, the leading one probably a BR conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I was looking at a nice 14XX last night but I have to weigh up I could buy 3½ 64XX's for the asking price if i wait until March. Thanks for the heads up on the GOG Grange. You should be able to get a San Cheng one cheaper than that Larry - they usually go for 500 -550. There was an unpainted one on the G0G Sale & Wants a couple of weeks ago (but no longer so I assume sold) but Hattons have a S/H painted/weathered on for 565. As regards the auto trailer converted from a brake 3rd I'm pretty certain it was one of the 1938 jobs to AA34. The first 4? were built new and had a door to the driver's compartment but the 2 conversions didn't have that door and the driver had to enter through the luggage compartment - W6820W at Oswestry was one of those. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 If it's of any interest I had a look at the 14xx allocations to Oswestry for the 50's/60's period. Some seemed to come and go whilst others stayed. 1950 - 1412/28/32/59 (also 5803/6/12) 1957 - 1432/59 (1459 withdrawn in 1958) 1959 - 1432/58 (also auto fitted 5400/21) 1961 - 1432/38/40/58 (also 5421) From my own notes I observed 1438/58, 5421 and, unusually, 6403 on 28/7/62. In contrast I saw 5 Manors that afternoon 7801/9/10/19/27 - it was a busy station then! Dave, I think 1458 may have moved south during 1964 when the LM region replaced the 14xx's (and most other GW classes) with Ivatt tanks and BR standards. Several photos exist of Ivatt/BR 2-6-2T's on the Gobowen shuttle - still with Hawksworth auto trailers before the DMU's took over. It must have been a real PITA for the crews having to run round after each short trip although it wasn't unknown even in BR(W) days - pictures exist of 465xx and even a Collett Goods on these workings and they certainly weren't auto fitted! Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 2, 2016 Author Share Posted December 2, 2016 You should be able to get a San Cheng one cheaper than that Larry - they usually go for 500 -550. There was an unpainted one on the G0G Sale & Wants a couple of weeks ago (but no longer so I assume sold) but Hattons have a S/H painted/weathered on for 565. As regards the auto trailer converted from a brake 3rd I'm pretty certain it was one of the 1938 jobs to AA34. The first 4? were built new and had a door to the driver's compartment but the 2 conversions didn't have that door and the driver had to enter through the luggage compartment - W6820W at Oswestry was one of those. Cheers, Ray. Hi Ray, It was a Masterpiece Models 14XX with inside motion. I would have liked to have owned something from this company but the S/H price seemed steep to me. However, I must thank you for the heads-up on the SanCheng model at Hattons. Larry G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Morning Larry, It's good to see you going for this BIG TIME and you seem to be more focused than you were a year ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I have that drill set..........a tip, if I may? Don't drop it......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I was up at 3am with a cup of tea and a piece of cake posting on Beale St, but at least it got me a Track Plan, hahahha :sungum: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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