'FLU' and other similar signs

[phil-b259]

Can any of our train driver members help me out and let me know what these signs mean? I have had a query as to their meaning but am struggling to find any info.

Edited August 9, 2016 by phil-b259

[big jim]

I've not seen those before but I'd guess at something to do with DOO operation, which doors to open, F For front unit, R for rear unit and ALL for all doors

[meld]

Hi.

 

These are Car Stop Boards for use ONLY with the new GTR Class 700 Siemens units ..

 

FLU = Full length unit, 12 car, 7001xx number range.

 

RLU = Reduceded length unit, 8 car, 7000xx number range.

 

ALL = All stop car mark. both 8 & 12 car units to stop here.

 

Note. There are some FLU & ALL Car Stop Boards with "SDO" twice on each of the top angled perimeter band and this is to remind the driver to use the "Selective Door Opening" buttons.

 

HTH

 

MC

[phil-b259]

Hi.

 

These are Car Stop Boards for use ONLY with the new GTR Class 700 Siemens units ..

 

FLU = Full length unit, 12 car, 7001xx number range.

 

RLU = Reduceded length unit, 8 car, 7000xx number range.

 

ALL = All stop car mark. both 8 & 12 car units to stop here.

 

Note. There are some FLU & ALL Car Stop Boards with "SDO" twice on each of the top angled perimeter band and this is to remind the driver to use the "Selective Door Opening" buttons.

 

HTH

 

MC

 

Thanks for your help, but what about the 'T' below it (not all FLU signs have one)

Edited August 9, 2016 by phil-b259

[meld]

The "T" is for services that terminate and start back from that platform, this is to allow the relevant mirror/monitor bank to be in the correct place for DOO operated Trains and it has nothing to do with the 700 series marks, that is why the new marks are placed as a 'Diamond' and use different terminology.

 

Square signs are the Std car stop marks for Pre 700 series stock in the GTR services area and the correct stopping position for GTR services using Class 319/377/387 and 442 stock.

 

MC

[4630]

.

Edited November 12, 2016 by 4630

[russ p]

So much for so called defensive driving that second one is quite close to the colourlight

[The Stationmaster]

So much for so called defensive driving that second one is quite close to the colourlight

 

Ah, the old debate about what 'defensive driving' means.  The original was very simple - don't pass a  signal at danger and make sure you stop in rear of it if it is at danger.  thus SNCf driving technique is to make a full service brake application if a 'distant signal' is at caution/colour light showing a caution aspect which brings the train under control ready to stop at the signal at danger - simple as that.

[phil-b259]

So much for so called defensive driving that second one is quite close to the colourlight

 

Thats the problem with the ex SR, everything is geared round EMUs (which is why freights can only travel up to 2/3rds of the posted line speed) and thus have historically better stopping ability. The Brighton Main Line has to cope with up to 12x20m formations at stations.

 

The signal gantry you see dates from the early to mid 80s, because when the new platform 7 was added a couple of years ago, only the minimum of alterations were made (on cost grounds) to outside equipment, it only being renewed when essential (the Interlocking was completely renewed however with a 'SmartLock' installation driving SSI modules).

 

This photo gives a wider angle shot.

Edited August 9, 2016 by phil-b259

[Edwin_m]

Thats the problem with the ex SR, everything is geared round EMUs (which is why freights can only travel up to 2/3rds of the posted line speed) and thus have historically better stopping ability. The Brighton Main Line has to cope with up to 12x20m formations at stations.

 

The signal gantry you see dates from the early to mid 80s, because when the new platform 7 was added a couple of years ago, only the minimum of alterations were made (on cost grounds) to outside equipment, it only being renewed when essential (the Interlocking was completely renewed however with a 'SmartLock' installation driving SSI modules).

 

This photo gives a wider angle shot.

If ALL is for all Thameslink units and FLU is for Full Length Thameslink units, and T isn't relevant to Thameslink, then why does that platform have both FLU and ALL? 

[phil-b259]

If ALL is for all Thameslink units and FLU is for Full Length Thameslink units, and T isn't relevant to Thameslink, then why does that platform have both FLU and ALL? 

 

I'm guessing that the FLU with a T is for when a Thameslink unit arrives from the south and requires to reverse in Platform 2 at Gatwick. The T is there to ensure that such a train stops at the correct place - which may have something to do with the visibility of the signal at the south end (which is carried on a similar gantry to that pictured).

 

If a Thameslink train arrives from the south and is due to continue to London, then the driver doesn't need to change end and the sighting the signal in the picture is the priority - hence the train has to stop slightly further south at the ALL marker.

[Edwin_m]

I'm guessing that the FLU with a T is for when a Thameslink unit arrives from the south and requires to reverse in Platform 2 at Gatwick. The T is there to ensure that such a train stops at the correct place - which may have something to do with the visibility of the signal at the south end (which is carried on a similar gantry to that pictured).

 

If a Thameslink train arrives from the south and is due to continue to London, then the driver doesn't need to change end and the sighting the signal in the picture is the priority - hence the train has to stop slightly further south at the ALL marker.

So the T does apply to Thameslink then!

[John M Upton]

T is for terminating train stop mark so that when the driver changes ends the rear cab is in the right place to see signals and clear of points etc.

Edited August 10, 2016 by John M Upton

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

Apparently they are having some problems with the sign positions and the Class 700's, apparently if the signs are erected slightly out, then when the drivers pull up to them, the selective door opening sensors on the trains don't line up and the management system refuses to open the doors!

 

Simon

[John M Upton]

Even more bizzare is that there seems to have been a cock up with the Class 700 design which are too long for the platforms at Gatwick Airport, you need to be in the front 11 to alight there now/  How on Earth did this happen?

[Dagworth]

How can they get away with the T board when it is exactly the same shape and very similar colour to a Termination board for a Temporary Speed Restriction? Imagine a driver not trained on those units to which the boards apply working a freight through one of those platforms over a TSR, sees that T board and thinks he has reached the end of the TSR. Very poor practice from someone there.

 

Andi

[Zomboid]

Even more bizzare is that there seems to have been a cock up with the Class 700 design which are too long for the platforms at Gatwick Airport, you need to be in the front 11 to alight there now/ How on Earth did this happen?

That kind of thing isn't so uncommon. I think it's where the platforms have to be a certain length longer than the train, and Gatwick isn't compliant. Existing stock is OK because of grandfather rights. I'm sure it's clapham where a train appears to fit the platform, but they have to use SDO anyway.

[DY444]

There are a number of stations where 8 car 455s or 319s "fit" but 8 car 377s are subject to SDO despite the doors being in exactly the same place when the train stops.  I think it's called progress. 

[roundhouse]

Confusion or what with all the signs!!

 

Driver could do with a second man to help read all the signs whilst he's watching the signal aspects. Oh wait a minute they are cutting the on board crew!

[phil-b259]

Confusion or what with all the signs!!

 

Driver could do with a second man to help read all the signs whilst he's watching the signal aspects. Oh wait a minute they are cutting the on board crew!

 

Back in the 'old days' we relied on train crew to remember everything (rather than do things like actually sign speed limits out on track), which was fine until someone made a mistake.

 

These days, as you observe its gone completely the other way - and in some cases the railway is safer for it.

 

Mind you, the rise in the need for cooperate arse covering, and the apparent inability of companies / regulators / society at large to simply accept that humans make mistakes ("there is no such thing as an accident mentality") has no doubt had an influence on things

[The Stationmaster]

Confusion or what with all the signs!!

 

Driver could do with a second man to help read all the signs whilst he's watching the signal aspects. Oh wait a minute they are cutting the on board crew!

 

I agree completely - the state of that signing shows the mind of an idiotic genius lurking in the background.  The idea is that the Driver's task should be kept simple - and not confused by a  plethora of signs, incorrect signs (witness Andi's comment) and all sorts of other stupidity from rank idiots.

 

Signs with an operational meaning should be subject to proper sighting and not the whims of some idiot or a bloke with a  shovel - alas all too typical of some of the total lack of railway sense among some parts of today's railway - if I were an H&S rep I'd report them as a hazard.

[andyb92]

The FLU signs are not just outside either - here's the B cab of a class 700 unit with FLU reminders in at least 5 locations (some off camera) to remind the driver of the length of the train

[corneliuslundie]

That's all right. They can remove the signs when we have all had our flu jabs.

Seriously, I have only just read this thread and I am horrified by the number of signs the driver is supposed to keep tabs of. As another poster said, the aim should be to make the driver's job as easy as possible - and therefore as safe as possible.

It reminds me of being with a German colleague driving back from Hanover Fair many years ago. Her comment was that there were so many road signs on German roads that it was almost impossible to notice and read them all, let along digest their meanings. Perhaps we have imported the person who specifies those signs.

Jonathan

[russ p]

5 hours ago, andyb92 said:

The FLU signs are not just outside either - here's the B cab of a class 700 unit with FLU reminders in at least 5 locations (some off camera) to remind the driver of the length of the train

 

Jesus, what a horrible cab. Looks like the last thing they designed was the windscreen! 

[big jim]

5 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Jesus, what a horrible cab. Looks like the last thing they designed was the windscreen! 

ah well the thing is with ERTMS/ECTS you don’t need windscreens apparently as the train will tell you where to brake and speed up on the screen so you don’t need to sign a route in the traditional way by actually knowing where you are, one of the original ‘benefits’ of ertms was supposedly that as it’s a universal system no matter what train or country you were in you could drive an ertms fitted train, effectively you could get on a train in Scotland and work it through to Spain under the same signalling, I think Saltley men did something similar in the 70s and 80s so nothing new there really! 

 

corneleuslundies point about keeping the driver focused is why the Cambrian 97s are double manned, you spend so much time looking down at the DMI screen that they have a 2nd man to help observe all the crossings on the line, not needed in the 158s TFW use as the screen is in relative eyeline with the drivers window whereas the 97 has it low down so you have to physically move your neck to look down and away from the windscreen to monitor the in cab screen

 

A lot of units now have limited visibility especially to the sides, 196s for example, small side window and unable to stand up and lean out of the cab door window to observe your train in a platform, it’s all on monitors in the cab

 

nothing beats a 165 for side visibility in a station, nice big cab door drop light window, you can stand in the cab door and operate doors from there as well as being able to drive from there stood up too