More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[corneliuslundie]

From what I have seen re South Wales companies, it could be 1927 before a wagon even received its new number. So a partial repaint following a repair at a remote repair facility doesn't seem too unlikely. Though I cannot cite any examples.

Incidentally, there is a GWR official photo of an open wagon with cupboard doors and end doors both ends being repaired at Oswestry. It is definitely not a wagon which belonged to a Welsh company. ("The Great Western Railway in Wales. The work of the official photographers" - NMational Museums & Galleries of Wales, 1995).

Jonathan

[Wagon nut]

15 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Incidentally, there is a GWR official photo of an open wagon with cupboard doors and end doors both ends being repaired at Oswestry. It is definitely not a wagon which belonged to a Welsh company. ("The Great Western Railway in Wales. The work of the official photographers" - National Museums & Galleries of Wales, 1995).

Sounds very G&SWR with that description..

[WFPettigrew]

18 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Though I cannot cite any examples.

 

Jonathan, if I may move the goalposts to a former Welsh kingdom (!) but there are quite a few photos of Furness Railway wagons well into the 30s still carrying clear FR identification with evidence of recent application of parts of the livery. 

 

This one was either a Diagram 1 or Diagram 5 3-plank open - D1 was 12T design that came in from 1914, the earlier D5 was rated 10T and dated back into the 19th century. This one was clearly built as a renewal of a very early FR wagon, and given that it has the rectangular form of FR wagon numberplate still extant on the solebar, that points to this being a D5 dating from 1903-1908 when such plates were used on new wagons. 

 

Anyway, you can see how replacement planks have been given bits of "FR" lettering including a rather wonky top stroke on the "F".  The lifting date on the solebar is 13/9/32, so pretty much ten years after Grouping and still going strong!!

 

 

Photo from the Cumbrian Railways Association collection FR101-05.

 

All the best

 

Neil 

Edited August 3 by WFPettigrew
Forgot photo credit

[corneliuslundie]

I can beat that. One Welsh wagon, ex-Taff Vale Railway goods van number 5267, got "lost" and turned up at Swindon in 1940 still on pregrouping livery. It had been written of by the GWR in 1933.

Jonathan

PS Apologies for thread drift. A long way from the Midland Railway and not even an open wagon.

[micklner]

59 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

 

Jonathan, if I may move the goalposts to a former Welsh kingdom (!) but there are quite a few photos of Furness Railway wagons well into the 30s still carrying clear FR identification with evidence of recent application of parts of the livery. 

 

This one was either a Diagram 1 or Diagram 5 3-plank open - D1 was 12T design that came in from 1914, the earlier D5 was rated 10T and dated back into the 19th century. This one was clearly built as a renewal of a very early FR wagon, and given that it has the rectangular form of FR wagon numberplate still extant on the solebar, that points to this being a D5 dating from 1903-1908 when such plates were used on new wagons. 

 

Anyway, you can see how replacement planks have been given bits of "FR" lettering including a rather wonky top stroke on the "F".  The lifting date on the solebar is 13/9/32, so pretty much ten years after Grouping and still going strong!!

 

 

Photo from the Cumbrian Railways Association collection FR101-05.

 

All the best

 

Neil 

Re the LNER Container they not built prior to 1929 and painted in Aluminium when new. Then painted Red Oxide with Yellow Lettering as in photo must be mid 1930's or even later.  These are the Stackable version for the Continent/Ferry use with additional Roof Supports fitted.

 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5753662

 

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

 

PS Apologies for thread drift. A long way from the Midland Railway and not even an open wagon.

 

No need to apologise - this is an eclectic thread (as you may have noticed) open to all comers. But LNER containers are certainly pushing the boundaries!

[Compound2632]

What does an incline brake look like? One of the earliest Litchurch Lane lots in 1877 was half-a-dozen incline brakes for Bromsgrove (for the Lickey Incline) and others had been built in Kirtley's day. One was sold second hand to one of the Burton breweries around the turn of the century. @DOCJACOB recently posted a photo of Cowlairs incline brakes over on @relaxinghobby's wonderful thread. (I'm on my phone and haven't worked out how to cut and paste links.) These look suspiciously like the infamous Midland shunter's trucks except that the latter, somewhat curiously, have no brake standard. For the Cowlairs incline the NBR also had enclosed vehicles that look like conventional single veranda brake vans that had been compressed up against the Queen Street buffer stops in a runaway!

[corneliuslundie]

The GWR built the iconic "Noah's Ark" brake vans for the Pontnewynydd incline.

Corrected. Thanks.

Jonathan

Edited August 4 by corneliuslundie

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

The Taff Vale Railway and then the GWR built the iconic "Noah's Ark" brake vans for the Pwllyrhebog incline on the Cl;ydach Vale branch.

Jonathan

 

That was the restricted height line?

[Northroader]

Weren’t the vans for an incline in the Monmouthshire section? The loco was pushing behind the van, so I think it was more that the driver could see over the van.

[Michael Hodgson]

Sounds like you mean the Pontnewynydd branch for which these vans were built

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305352214233

 

[Compound2632]

35 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Sounds like you mean the Pontnewynydd branch for which these vans were built

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305352214233

 

 

That was the restricted height type I was thinking of.  The curious thing is that it preserves a typical design of the 1860s with a central cabin and open verandas at both ends. Midland vans seem to have been of this design, built as late as 1876 for the S&DJR. But this is tangential to the question of incline brakes.

[corneliuslundie]

Post above corrected so as not to mislead anyone in the future.

Sorry, I was getting confused with the TVR Class H locos built for the Pwllyrhebog incline. Not that the other branch was exactly flat, if I remember correctly.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

Sedbergh, which is where we are near for our usual fortnight of mixed weather, had millennial aspirations to become a Book Town. A Relic of this is a large second-hand bookshop - not though quite on the scale of Barter Books in Alnwick. From this, I have come away with an addition to my light summer reading in the form of the second (1937) edition of C.E.R. Sherrington's Economics of Railway Transport in Great Britain. I hope to come away from this volume even better prepared to bore on railway statistics. You have been warned.

[Andy Vincent]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Sedbergh

Apparently it is in Cumbria for those of us who are Southern and geographically challenged! From my limited experience of Cumbria, 'mixed weather' is actually quite good - there is a reason that it is home to the Lake District . .

 

Have a great time.

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, Andy Vincent said:

Apparently it is in Cumbria for those of us who are Southern and geographically challenged! From my limited experience of Cumbria, 'mixed weather' is actually quite good - there is a reason that it is home to the Lake District . .

 

Have a great time.

Sedbergh is anciently Yorkshire - was still when first I came here - and is in the Yorkshire Dales national park. Just across the Lune is Westmorland. But Cumbria is a more rational arrangement - Sedbergh looks to Kendal and Lancaster rather than to Skipton and Leeds. We're in the rain shadow of the Lake District, meaning that when it is raining heavily here,  it has been raining even more heavily there. 

 

When I first came in 1972, we stayed in a static caravan. Last summer was our last in that caravan, which has now been replaced by a Pod.

[wagonman]

Last time I was in Sedbergh (about 10 years ago at least) there were several bookshops – not enough to rival Hay, but worth packing your specs.

 

 

[jamie92208]

17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Sedbergh is anciently Yorkshire - was still when first I came here - and is in the Yorkshire Dales national park. Just across the Lune is Westmorland. But Cumbria is a more rational arrangement - Sedbergh looks to Kendal and Lancaster rather than to Skipton and Leeds. We're in the rain shadow of the Lake District, meaning that when it is raining heavily here,  it has been raining even more heavily there. 

 

When I first came in 1972, we stayed in a static caravan. Last summer was our last in that caravan, which has now been replaced by a Pod.

Sedbergh was the final outpost of the West Riding. Part of Keighley division of the West Riding Constabulary.  I could have been posted the in Early 74 if I had wanted to end up in Cumbria,  I believe that special trains for the boys from the school were run to there long after the regular passenger service had ceased.  I suspect there might even have been a PO wagon or two that called it home.  Certainly many D299's would have gone there or passed through. 

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

Certainly many D299's would have gone there or passed through.

 

We are deep into LNWR territory here with the Lancaster & Carlisle line within earshot and the remains of the Low Gill - Ingleton branch in sight. That branch had an end-on junction with the Midland branch from Clapham so it was the Midland route to Scotland until the Settle & Carlisle line opened. Once the two companies entered into their working agreement in 1908, one Leeds - Scotland train per day was routed this way to provide a Leeds - Penrith service with connections to the north Lakes. It is said the Midland crews used to laugh at Shap, being used to the Long Drag - but they only had five on, not thirteen!

Edited August 7 by Compound2632

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

We are deep into LNWR territory here with the Lancaster & Carlisle line within earshot and the remains of the Low Gill - Ingleton branch in sight. That branch had an end-on junction with the Midland branch from Clapham so it was the Midland route to Scotland until the Settle & Carlisle line opened. Once the two companies entered into their working agreement in 1908, one Leeds - Scotland train per day was routed this way to provide a Leeds - Penrith service with connections to the north Lakes. It is said the Midland crews used to laugh at Shap, being used to the Long Drag - but they only had five on, not thirteen!

Yes it was LNWR from Ingleton but the design is that of Eyberinton the engineer for the Little North Western who got the original Parliamentary powers.   The bridges have the identical semi elliptical arches as the MR section.  Something for a science graduate to ponder on. Enjoy the area it's great countryside. 

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Yes it was LNWR from Ingleton but the design is that of Eyberinton the engineer for the Little North Western who got the original Parliamentary powers.   The bridges have the identical semi elliptical arches as the MR section.  Something for a science graduate to ponder on. Enjoy the area it's great countryside. 

 

The partnership of Locke & Errington were engineers to the Lancaster & Carlisle and the Lune Valley Railway - in practice John Errington I believe, he being pretty well responsible for the whole West Coast system north of Lancaster as far as Aberdeen and Inverness, as well as the Aston - Sutton Coldfield branch! But I thought the Little North Western was by somebody else?

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The partnership of Locke & Errington were engineers to the Lancaster & Carlisle and the Lune Valley Railway - in practice John Errington I believe, he being pretty well responsible for the whole West Coast system north of Lancaster as far as Aberdeen and Inverness, as well as the Aston - Sutton Coldfield branch! But I thought the Little North Western was by somebody else?

I'll have to check. 

 

Jamie

[MarcD]

On 06/08/2024 at 13:28, Andy Vincent said:

Apparently it is in Cumbria for those of us who are Southern and geographically challenged! From my limited experience of Cumbria, 'mixed weather' is actually quite good - there is a reason that it is home to the Lake District . .

 

Have a great time.

Just a small point Cumbria is no more. Thank which ever deity you like. And majority of the people who lived in it's shadow are very happy about it.  

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, MarcD said:

Just a small point Cumbria is no more. Thank which ever deity you like. And majority of the people who lived in it's shadow are very happy about it.  

 

Well, I suppose the Lord Leiutenant is happy that, like Berkshire,  it still exists as a ceremonial county even though it is administered as two unitary authorities. Curiously, while Cumberland comprises a large part of the historic county of that name, Westmorland and Furness includes all four historic counties that were included in Cumbria. It remains a useful label - I haven't noticed the CRA renaming itself the C&W&FRA!

[MarcD]

It would be nice if all references could be got rid of.