More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[corneliuslundie]

A long way from home as the photo was taken in Barmouth according to the HMRS website, but if the 1924 date is correct then it would by then have been part of the LNER.

So what potential traffic from the LNER to Barmouth?

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

59 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

A long way from home as the photo was taken in Barmouth according to the HMRS website,

 

A J.P. Richards photo, then.

 

59 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

 website, but if the 1924 date is correct then it would by then have been part of the LNER.

So what potential traffic from the LNER to Barmouth?

 

Pooling!

[corneliuslundie]

"Pooling". I wondered. So anyone modelling the early Grouping can have one of those wagons.

No, I am not in the market.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

"Pooling". I wondered. So anyone modelling the early Grouping can have one of those wagons.

 

Anyone modelling the late pre-Grouping too, from 1917.

[Wagon nut]

8 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

"Pooling". I wondered. So anyone modelling the early Grouping can have one of those wagons.

 

Yes, as Stephen says and post 1917 too. Which is why it is such a great period to model if you like wagons as the standard types all got mixed up so interestingly. Model just after the grouping and you mix pre- and post grouping liveries. Bingo. Too many obscure / rare wagons away from home (eg GNOSR / E&WYUR wagons for example) would still not be uber prototypical but larger fleets got everywhere. Still amazes me to see how many Caledonian wagons turn up in pictures literally all over the UK. There are photos of different LBSC wagons in Lossiemouth too which is arguably less predictable given their wagon fleet was modest and the distance involved. One attached of a rather rare 6 plank Diagram 6 wagon at Lossie harbour. Note too the D 299 next to it for good measure - or could it be a D351?? Whatever, nicely back to the main thread! Photo from Moray Council Library Collection, via the GNSRA

[billbedford]

Can anyone read the writing on the barrels?

 

[Dave John]

A very interesting pic Wagon Nut. 

 

The CR wagon is to diagram 24. Lots built with detail variations, but yes they turn up all over the place. 

[Wagon nut]

28 minutes ago, billbedford said:

Can anyone read the writing on the barrels?

 

looked back at the thread on the GNRSA chat and the comment was that the wagons were being unloaded with a consignment from The White Horse Distillery at Craigellachie, bound for a warehouse on Islay...

Chris

[corneliuslundie]

Does the way they are being loaded in the boat tell us anything about how they would have been loaded in the wagons?

And that is a lot of whisky!

Jonathan

[Worsdell forever]

11 hours ago, billbedford said:

Can anyone read the writing on the barrels?

 

 

Depends on how much of the contents you've drunk...

[billbedford]

15 hours ago, Wagon nut said:

looked back at the thread on the GNRSA chat and the comment was that the wagons were being unloaded with a consignment from The White Horse Distillery at Craigellachie, bound for a warehouse on Islay...

Chris

 

That makes sense, the labels are a bit fancy for humble herring.

[DOCJACOB]

Pre grouping did get about a bit & I attach another 

[Compound2632]

21 minutes ago, DOCJACOB said:

Pre grouping did get about a bit & I attach another 

 

I think that's J. Hooper, Wagons on the LNER No. 1: North British (Irwell Press, 1991), on my shelves. (But haven't got it out to check).

 

1921, common user.

[DOCJACOB]

48 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I think that's J. Hooper, Wagons on the LNER No. 1: North British (Irwell Press, 1991), on my shelves. (But haven't got it out to check).

 

1921, common user.

 Indeed it is. Excellent little tome. 

[Wagon nut]

13 hours ago, DOCJACOB said:

 Indeed it is. Excellent little tome. 

Pity there have never been any further volumes in that series - unless someone knows differently?

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, Wagon nut said:

Pity there have never been any further volumes in that series - unless someone knows differently?

 

Rather superseded by Peter Tatlow's volumes, although those didn't start coming out until over a decade later.

[Penlan]

I'm sure I've posted this here before.... But.
PS - It's believed 'C' = Cripple (from a RMweb Q & A session).
It will be noted the North British have a few wagons here,
even the G.N of S. has a few.
N&B = Neath & Brecon.
 

Edited August 2 by Penlan

[Compound2632]

18 minutes ago, Penlan said:

I'm sure I've posted this here before.... But.

 

Indeed, here or elsewhere. It is a survey of Great Western yards in Bristol, as one can see from the cattle wagons (not part of the common user scheme at that date) and service vehicles being exclusively Great Western. Mind you, even round the corner at St Philips, Great Western cattle wagons figure prominently:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 62327, Bristol St Philips, May 1922.]

 

I've just finished my article on cattle wagons for the Midland Railway Society Journal, so I know when I see a non-Midland one!

Edited August 2 by Compound2632

[corneliuslundie]

Interesting to see so many Barry, Rhondda & Swansea Bay and Taff Vale wagons.

Jonathan

[Mol_PMB]

I note that if C does mean Cripple, 8% of the total are cripples.

Though @Compound2632 can derive some satisfaction from the fact that the Midland fleet is well ahead of the game, with only 2% cripples, while the GW has 11% demics.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I note that if C does mean Cripple, 8% of the total are cripples.

Though @Compound2632 can derive some satisfaction from the fact that the Midland fleet is well ahead of the game, with only 2% cripples, while the GW has 11% demics.

 

Did the GW have a wagon repair shop at one of its Bristol yards? That could easily explain the proportion of cripples, especially GW ones. The usual practice would be for such a railway company repair shop to repair all comers, at least to the point of being fit to return home, with the appropriate charges being made.

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, Penlan said:

It will be noted the North British have a few wagons here,
even the G.N of S. has a few.

 

Yes, but the survey was taken after pooling. Note that there were no foreign cattle wagons counted since they were not part of the pooling arrangements. 

[Mol_PMB]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Did the GW have a wagon repair shop at one of its Bristol yards? That could easily explain the proportion of cripples, especially GW ones. The usual practice would be for such a railway company repair shop to repair all comers, at least to the point of being fit to return home, with the appropriate charges being made.

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps the more serious cripples were brought here which would explain the high proportion.

The Midland may have had separate facilities nearby so their cripples didn't come here?

The other big companies are all in the 6% to 9% demics range.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

The Midland may have had separate facilities nearby so their cripples didn't come here?

The other big companies are all in the 6% to 9% demics range.

 

Yes:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue image of MRSC 31320.]

 

This is part of a bundle of documents c. 1905 provided by the C&W Dept to the Accountant's Dept, possibly to do with preparing a valuation of the company for use in a rating appeal, of which there seem to have been a number around this time.

 

I think this must be the long building between the engine shed and the cattle dock:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/109729816.

 

[Wagon nut]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 The usual practice would be for such a railway company repair shop to repair all comers, at least to the point of being fit to return home, with the appropriate charges being made.

Always had a theory that this practice ended up perpetuating some pre-grouping liveries, almost by accident. There a good few photos out there where pre- grouping liveries - or part pre- grouping liveries appear to have been newly applied well after the grouping. Quite a few LNWR wagons with newly painted doors, but otherwise faded bodysides, in the 1930s for example. If the wagon was away from home I assume the repair contract was just to make good / reinstate the livery it was in even if it was now superseded, rather than a full repair and paint to the new current livery. And / or were there 'rogue' painters in 'home' workshops loyal to their previous employer, keeping old liveries alive too in some circumstances. Not beyond the realms of possibility??