More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[billbedford]

24 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

I'm probably being dense, but why does it matter? If a merchant asks for a medium cattle wagon and a large is the only thing available, why does the railway company need to go to the expense of fitting a lock that prevents a small number of people moving a partition behind which was empty space anyway? 

 

Simon

 

Because 1/customers can be devious and may wish to load more beasts than the space they are willing to pay for can hold, and 2/ if the cattle do not fill the space in the van they can fall and be injured or killed and the railway could then be held responsible for their loss. 

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

Because 1/customers can be devious and may wish to load more beasts than the space they are willing to pay for can hold, and 2/ if the cattle do not fill the space in the van they can fall and be injured or killed and the railway could then be held responsible for their loss. 

 

In the Directors' minds, chiefly point 1. 

[Wagon nut]

On 19/07/2024 at 09:58, ian@stenochs said:

There were variations of the number and width of slats. I have seen photos of 6 & 7 slat versions, but they were always gaps between them.  The ownership lettering was painted G & S W on one slat and also on a cast plate which also carried the number.   
 

I have never seen any evidence that the buffer stocks were ever anything other than round with 4 fixing bolts.  The standard axleboxes were very plain rectangular in shape, the ones on the mystery van look to have round bottoms a bit like the NB used.

 

Just for information the Model Wagon Co produced a 4 mm kit for the above van and the G&SWRA did one in 7 mm.   Additionally MWC did a 7 mm version of the later Drummond van.

Completely by fluke I found the old HMRS articles which had some info on GSWR wagons and found this pic of the later Drummond cattle wagon. I had in my mind that this was the one that MWCo. did in 4mm, as it was so similar to the Highland one (second image from Peter Tatlow's book) and CR one, but that is probably wrong. Photo of MWCo. CR cattle wagon under construction thrown in for comparison. A bit of a pig to make as the sides were different lengths, despite being the same casting. Not unheard of I understand.

References: HMRS Journal vol15 no 7 July- Sept 1995; Highland Railway Carriages & Wagons, Tatlow / Noodle Books 2014.

 

Edited July 20 by Wagon nut
adding references

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Wagon nut said:

Completely by fluke I found the old HMRS articles which had some info on GSWR wagons and found this pic of the later Drummond cattle wagon.

 

Ah, of course, Peter Drummond, so post 1912. The photo, like that of the M&C wagon posted earlier, oozes modernity from its nether regions. The kit looks suitably antique in that respect. 

Edited July 20 by Compound2632
typo.

[corneliuslundie]

If you are posting images of magazine pages please cite the reference both so that we can follow them up and because the material is copyright.

Jonathan David

[mikeallerton]

Pic of the MWCo GSWR Cattle wagon. Apologies for the rubbish hand lettering, I was but a callow youth when I built that 40 odd years ago

Edited July 21 by mikeallerton

[ian@stenochs]

Nice model but I think you are wrong and that is a Model Wagon Co kit.  I am sure D&S never did any G&SWR kits.

 

Ian.

[mikeallerton]

3 hours ago, ian@stenochs said:

Nice model but I think you are wrong and that is a Model Wagon Co kit.  I am sure D&S never did any G&SWR kits.

 

Ian.

You are correct. I knew that, just wrote the wrong manufacturer

[Andy Vincent]

4 hours ago, ian@stenochs said:

Model Wagon Co kit

Presumably this one:

 

MWC 11 - G&SWR - Cattle Van - Drummond design with single lever brake on both axles, running period 1912- 1950s

 

[Info pulled from Caledonian Railway Association forum]

[corneliuslundie]

A real loss the MWC kits.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

Just now, corneliuslundie said:

A real loss the MWC kits.

 

They must be long gone? When I was first taking proper notice, mid-90s, the whitemetal wagon kits I was aware of were the D&S and David Geen ranges. 

[Andy Vincent]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

They must be long gone?

There are a few on a well known auction site at the moment if you fancy trying one! A few have also sold in recent months but I dont recall ever seeing one first hand.

[Wagon nut]

34 minutes ago, Andy Vincent said:

There are a few on a well known auction site at the moment if you fancy trying one! A few have also sold in recent months but I dont recall ever seeing one first hand.

Peter Tatlow records building a MWCo cattle wagon on his Highland Miscellany web page - where he highlights the difficulty with sides of differing lengths, which is what I have found. Some of the better kits passed to 51L/Wizard I think, so are still available, but by no means all. 

[Dave John]

I built a fair number of the CR ones, many of which are still in service on Kelvinbank. 

 

A comprehensive study of MWC kits can be found here ;

 

https://www.crassoc.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1611&p=11033&hilit=mwc+kits#p11033

[MR Chuffer]

Interesting(?) photo of Tawd Vale, Skelmersdale PO wagons. Nothing to do with Burnley which is what the article is about but dumb buffers are go! 

[jamie92208]

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

In the Directors' minds, chiefly point 1. 

From what I know of the farming community, the directors may well have been correct. 

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

38 minutes ago, MR Chuffer said:

Interesting(?) photo of Tawd Vale, Skelmersdale PO wagons. Nothing to do with Burnley which is what the article is about but dumb buffers are go! 

 

Non-colourised version:

 

[Embedded link to this Slelmersdale Heritage Society website.]

 

According to the Northern Mine Research Society's website, the colliery closed and the firm (Tawd Vale Coal Co. according to the Durham Mining Museum listing) went into voluntary liquidation in 1899 following an innundation in which (from other sources) two men died, the River Tawd having broken in, in November 1897. It was reopened in 1904 by John Griffiths & Son Ltd. as Glenburn Colliery. 

 

So presumably the Tawd Vale Coal Co.'s fleet of dumb buffered wagons would have been disposed of in 1899.

[Compound2632]

Apropos the Tait & Carlton cattle wagon partition fastener, I wonder if I could beg a favour of someone with an RM subscription to give me the full reference for an article on building Midland cattle wagons in the July 1982 number? Author, title, pagination.

 

As far as I can glean, it is Bob Essery writing about 7 mm scale models. Mention is made of Tait & Carlton but it seems to be the case that the entire partition design is attributed to them, not just the tamper-proof fastener. 

 

I've not been able to find out anything about Tait & Carlton; they don't appear to have been Midland employees, at least, not in the C&W DO.

[mikeallerton]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Apropos the Tait & Carlton cattle wagon partition fastener, I wonder if I could beg a favour of someone with an RM subscription to give me the full reference for an article on building Midland cattle wagons in the July 1982 number? Author, title, pagination.

 

As far as I can glean, it is Bob Essery writing about 7 mm scale models. Mention is made of Tait & Carlton but it seems to be the case that the entire partition design is attributed to them, not just the tamper-proof fastener. 

 

I've not been able to find out anything about Tait & Carlton; they don't appear to have been Midland employees, at least, not in the C&W DO.

 Indeed it was Bob Essery. Article entitled "Mostly Midland" on pages 250, 251 and 252 and the reference is to the Tait & Carlton Patent Partition Fastener (noted as being essential and sadly lacking from the Slater's kit)

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, mikeallerton said:

 Indeed it was Bob Essery. Article entitled "Mostly Midland" on pages 250, 251 and 252 and the reference is to the Tait & Carlton Patent Partition Fastener (noted as being essential and sadly lacking from the Slater's kit)

 

Brilliant, thank you. I have also been PM'd a scan of the article, not extracted from the RM digital archive, so no T&Cs breached!

[RedTrain]

Over the past week I've managed to finally cross the threshold and start painting the myriad wagon kits I've built, primed, and set aside to languish in shame... I'm still getting the hang of airbrushing, drybrushing, and other techniques, but I believe I've developed a method that works for me and that I'm able to get at least passable results out of.

 

I've just finished my third open wagon (been doing them at a pace of about one every one or two days). The first one I did (although technically preceded by two ex-Ratio GWR iron minks which, while I'm happy with them, don't hold a candle to the opens in terms of finish) was a Coopercraft GWR O5 four-plank, in my attempt at the pre-1904 (I subscribe to the later changeover theory) red livery:

 

 

I did attempt mixing a custom shade for the red which I used on one of the aforementioned iron minks, but in this case I decided to experiment and see how Tamiya red oxide primer would look if left as the body color. The finished look is a bit more brown than I'd have really wanted, but it does certainly make painting simple and expedient and the finish isn't displeasing to my eye... so I'm undecided on how I'll proceed with future attempts at this livery. This wagon got a hack-slash attempt at replacing the floor with a scratchbuilt one to gain back some height on the interior (shamelessly ripped from @Mikkel's Farthing Layouts blog, I'll admit) which I'm undecided on the worth of in the end. It's not square and the wagon does not sit level at all, but then I did that a long time ago and didn't have a proper flat surface available to ensure squareness, so future attempts may go better.

 

The next one was a GWR O4 five-plank, also Coopercraft, with the pre-pooling sheet rail:

 

 

This one's just the bog-standard kit with no modification other than Smiths couplings and a sheet rail bent from brass strip as opposed to the horrid coil of wire they expect you to use in the kit. Don't look at the brake gear too hard... I shudder when I do that myself. When I built this one I believe there was some confusion as to which of the three provided sets was correct; I came to find out later that I had used the set intended for the kit's representation of DCI(?) brakes and as a result it sat much lower than it should've in relation to the V hanger. Wouldn't have been impossible to remove and replace if I hadn't already gone and cut the good set in half to try and make the third brake shoe on the other side... oh well. It's something to grow from. I know now to be more attentive.

 

Finally, here's today's build (and probably the one I was anticipating getting to most), the celebrated Slaters MR D299:

 

   

 

Although I built this one before acquiring a copy of @Compound2632's fantastic article on the Slaters range and their flaws (and therefore didn't catch the solebar alignment issue until it was too late), I'm still happy with the finish I was able to achieve on this one. My intent was for it to look severely neglected, having not been shopped in a long time by 1913 (the upper bound of my general modelling era). The topmost body plank was filed as close to randomly as I could, to represent a lifetime of careless loads that weren't quite aimed high enough...! Black wash was poured on liberally, almost more than I had actually intended at first but I'm satisfied with the effect.

 

I do have some build photos of all three that I could post, but I figured that as a now completed trio they'd be good to show off in their finished state. I'm still learning and experimenting with how to go about things in a way that works for me, but I'm incredibly appreciative of the information and experiences that others have shared as they've helped immensely in my own attempts.

 

Now I'm sure it'll be said I need more D299s... One down, 63,009 to go?

Edited July 23 by RedTrain
Adjusted image sizes

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, RedTrain said:

Coopercraft GWR O5 four-plank, in my attempt at the pre-1904 (I subscribe to the later changeover theory) red livery:

 

Whose transfers did you use for the two GW liveries?

[RedTrain]

24 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Whose transfers did you use for the two GW liveries?

 

Fox Transfers on both; FRH4125REV. On their site here:

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/gwr-freight-vehicle-general-pack-60110

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, RedTrain said:

Fox Transfers on both; FRH4125REV.

 

Thanks. Those are the ones I've been using most recently, having started out with some Broad Gauge Society rub-down ones.

[corneliuslundie]

Well done. I have built about 250 wagons and am still not getting them anything near perfect. In fact I never shall because after the two waiting completion that will be it. 

(Who said you can never have too many wagons?)

Jonathan