More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

The wagon to its left appears to be a LNWR D32 covered goods wagon, with the no-door side facing:

 

 

There's no sign of the diagonal door framing that one would see if it were a D33 with doors both sides.

[magmouse]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

@Tricky was already doing 7 mm scale casks: https://www.monksgate.co.uk/shop/barrels; scaling down the techniques used there was our starting-point, though in the event compromises had to be made on the way the hoops are done. Those aren't to the Burton drawing though but he has that, if you wanted to start a conversation.

 

Thanks - I'd already looked at the page you linked to. The text says they are based on the Slaters casks (which I have also used) rather than being 3D printed. Anyway, as you say, I need to talk to him.

 

Nick

[Compound2632]

While we're on the subject, here's a shot of the two wagons loaded with the shortened casks - mostly barrels but a few hogsheads:

 

 

Prototype reference:

 

 

Wellingborough, September 1898. A northbound goods train, probably for Burton going not only by the casks but also the NSR and North Staffs PO wagons in other parts of the train.

[WFPettigrew]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Is this the one you mean?

 

The very same. 

 

 

[WFPettigrew]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The wagon to its left appears to be a LNWR D32 covered goods wagon, with the no-door side facing:

 

Thank you, that one - and the identical top left by the brake vans - had been puzzling me!

 

Can I throw a question out to the collective minds, on some other private owner wagons in this photo please?

 

First of all, this PO wagon:

 

Something Wood Colliery perhaps?  Or something completely different?

 

 

The others around it are two Robet Balfour (Barrow coal merchant), South Kirkby colliery and Featherstone (coal supplier to Barrow shipyard). 

 

And secondly, does anyone have any idea about these please? I think all three are the same owner, but does anyone recognise this mark?  

 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

 

[MarcD]

The index of published photos of PO wagons draws a blank on the ***** Wood Colliery nothing close so it coul be a new one. 

However a quick search of the HMRS photos came up with Soothill Wood Colliery  Batley West Yorks 

It's not the same wagon but the lettering matches

Edited November 27, 2023 by MarcD

[Compound2632]

56 minutes ago, MarcD said:

The index of published photos of PO wagons draws a blank on the ***** Wood Colliery nothing close so it coul be a new one. 

However a quick search of the HMRS photos came up with Soothill Wood Colliery  Batley West Yorks 

It's not the same wagon but the lettering matches

 

Yes Durham Mining Museum has this colliery, giving the location as Dewsbury. It's here:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/125644345

on the Great Northern Beeston & Batley branch. 

 

Interesting as an instance of coal for Barrow coming from a colliery not on the general axis of the North Midland line. I wonder what the routing was? We had previously noted the presence of a couple of wagons sporting GNR sheets, with prominent saltire cross.

[WFPettigrew]

1 hour ago, MarcD said:

It's not the same wagon but the lettering matches

Thanks Marc.  I had gone through the Lightmoor Index with various combinations of Wood as well as other possible four letter words, like Moor, without success.  Didn't think to try HMRS!

 

 

[WFPettigrew]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I wonder what the routing was?

 

GNR to Keighley (to maximise their share of the traffic) then onto the Midland?

 

 

[MarcD]

A new wagon to add to the Furness PO wagon book

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, WFPettigrew said:

 

GNR to Keighley (to maximise their share of the traffic) then onto the Midland?

 

 

 

Also possibly via the Shipley-Laisterdyke line. There was daily trip working by the GN on Midland Metals from Shipley to Skipton which would be the last Midland sorting yard for any train heading towards Carnforth and the Furness.

[WFPettigrew]

20 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

There was daily trip working by the GN on Midland Metals from Shipley to Skipton

 

That would make sense - the GN would then get the mileage all the way to Skipton.  Would there have been a pre-grouping equivalent of "track access charges" when a company had running rights over another's metals?

 

 

[Compound2632]

28 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Would there have been a pre-grouping equivalent of "track access charges" when a company had running rights over another's metals?

 

Yes, absolutely. Tolls were paid. Running powers didn't mean free access!

[WFPettigrew]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Running powers didn't mean free access!

Thank you.  But even with the toll, it must have still been worth their while running through (otherwise, why bother) with more taken than having to be then lost in tolls - so I do think the route via Shipley and through to Skipton would be the way to maximise the GNR revenue. 

 

 

[Compound2632]

Just now, WFPettigrew said:

Thank you.  But even with the toll, it must have still been worth their while running through (otherwise, why bother) with more taken than having to be then lost in tolls - so I do think the route via Shipley and through to Skipton would be the way to maximise the GNR revenue. 

 

A more extreme case is the Great Northern's Manchester goods trains, which ran via the MS&L Woodhead route for many years but switched to the Midland Hope Valley route when that opened, whether out of pique at the MS&L's London Extension or because the Hope Valley line was an easier-graded route, I know not.

[jamie92208]

8 hours ago, WFPettigrew said:

Thank you.  But even with the toll, it must have still been worth their while running through (otherwise, why bother) with more taken than having to be then lost in tolls - so I do think the route via Shipley and through to Skipton would be the way to maximise the GNR revenue. 

 

 

Knowing the Southill area well that route sounds good.  The wagon could  be tripped either to Tingley or Batley where there would be regular work gs to Laisterdyke.  I wonder if they were Beadman built as the route ran past Keighley.  Sadly I haven't had much luck trying to trace GNR PO registers. Actually, thinking about the routing, Southill to Ardsley sidings via Tingley would make sense then to Laisterdyke etc. 

 

Jamie

Edited November 28, 2023 by jamie92208

[Compound2632]

@jwealleans has mentioned having a long chat with Graham Taylor (I believe that's his name) of Cambrian Model Rail. I apologised that the Cambrian D664 Midland van [Cambrian kit C84] didn't feature in my display, being too late for my period, but he said it sells well, outselling the various LMS vans. We did talk about progress with the ex-Coopercraft wagon kits, which I have reported elsewhere:

 

[Aire Head]

13 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

outselling the various LMS vans

 

That's a very interesting statistic!

[Compound2632]

41 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

That's a very interesting statistic!

 

Well, we don't know the volume of sales - it might be one and none, though I suspect not!

 

Having spoken very briefly to Jonathan Wealleans on Saturday, I think there was agreement between him and Graham Taylor that RTR duplication of wagons available as kits is not really a threat to kit manufacturers, as they're chasing different markets. Now, I've bought five RTR wagons this year, three of which I could readily have built from plastic kits - Rapido LMS D1666. But this has largely been the consequence of curiosity and from a sense of wanting to encourage the manufacturer; moreover, two of those three are in BR condition for use on our club layout. But this has also spurred me on to completion of a couple of Cambrian D1666s that I'd had knocking around for a while!

 

Of the other two, one I have previously built from a Cambrian kit, subsequently discovering that the kit represented a variation of the design not appropriate to my period; I could buy a brass and whitemetal kit, which represents another variation, in-period for me; and may yet be spurred on to do so! This is the LSWR covered goods wagon, recently introduced by EFE. Right now, I'm hacking away at the underframe to represent appropriate brakes.

 

My  fifth (chronologically first) is the Rapido SER brake van, which I don't think I would otherwise have attempted - is there a kit? - though that has gone hand-in-hand with a 3D print for a different type of SER brake van. This is why I hope Raido will progress from a SE&CR O1 to a SER O!

Edited November 28, 2023 by Compound2632

[41516]

Easier to build with the 1 piece chassis?   Certainly 'safer' as an entry level for kit building.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, 41516 said:

Easier to build with the 1 piece chassis?   Certainly 'safer' as an entry level for kit building.

 

Would an entry-level kit builder cotton on to that feature?

[41516]

I'd love to say 'depends how helpful your local model shop is', but that's probably not an option for most now sadly.

 

Edit -  and one I went to last year I was told there was 'no demand for kits or paint' so they didn't stock either!

Edited November 28, 2023 by 41516

[WFPettigrew]

11 minutes ago, 41516 said:

Easier to build with the 1 piece chassis?   Certainly 'safer' as an entry level for kit building.

I built one, using the one piece chassis, as I was interested to see how i the rigid set up would do in P4. It went together well, albeit with the Cambrian trait of being tricky to get the corners all properly square and lined up (or my hamfisted trait?!).

 

I finished it, including a repaint out of the green MR wagon paint from Phoenix PP, and it seemed to roll very nicely. So nicely that it rolled off a high shelf and smashed into more pieces than could be salvaged....

 

There was/possibly will be again a Bill Bedford etch which I think is right for this van, but please correct me if I have got that wrong.

 

[Compound2632]

Well, here's mine, built a good long while ago but got stuck due to the poor combination of Halfords white primer and Precision paint; something I've rather got over:

 

[MrWolf]

7 minutes ago, 41516 said:

I'd love to say 'depends how helpful your local model shop is', but that's probably not an option for most now sadly.

 

Edit -  and one I went to last year I was told there was 'no demand for kits or paint' so they didn't stock either!

 

How times have changed. Back when we had a local model shop, kits and paint were exactly what I used to go there for!