More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[65179]

It's the MR's Sandon & Canada Docks Goods Station:

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/huskisson/index2.shtml

 

Compare the chimney and building in front of it in Stephen's photo with the middle photo on the linked page.

 

Accessed via a short line from the CLC at Huskisson Goods.

 

Regards,

Simon

Edited September 14, 2023 by 65179

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, 65179 said:

It's the MR's Sandon & Canada Docks Goods Station:

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/huskisson/index2.shtml

 

Yes indeed, as captioned at Derby registers: https://www.midlandrailway.org.uk/derby-registers/DY12660.

 

Disused Stations has what i take to be another photo from the same series, all listed as 22 July 1922, though that's probably the date entered in the registers, taken in the course of the week preceding, probably. What caught my eye was the variagated end planking of a lowside wagon:

 

[WFPettigrew]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

LOCO.

Or is it the C that is a bit low?

 

If it helps, I didn't spot that til you pointed it out..  Lovely set of wagons... 

[65179]

1 hour ago, Grahams said:

What a delightful photograph! 

I've flipped it left to right and improved the texture slightly. Can anyone say which Liverpool dock is featured? 

I have 'nearly' finished what I now call my whisky wagon, the D305 in Midland Wagons Vol 1 with the 6 casks. That says 'Liverpool Brunswick to Wirksworth' in chalk on the side and I wonder if this picture also shows the Brunswick dock? 

It's always interesting to see inside the wagons and the sheets are very helpful too. 

The nearest wagon is a D305 with Monarch door controllers, oil axleboxes (90% sure?) and a long brake lever on the right. 

It's such fun that apparently every man on the picture is posing for the camera!

 

Your wagon will have come from the CLC's Brunswick Goods depot which was alongside Harrington Dock and adjacent to Herculaneum Dock:

http://disused-stations.org.uk/h/herculaneum_dock/index.shtml (The area which forms the subject of Michael Edge's Herculaneum Dock layout).

 

Brunswick Dock itself is a little further north (see diagram on linked page).

 

Simon

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

At the time these wagons were built (up to 1892), the M R lettering was limited to open wagons but by the turn of the century, it was becoming ubiquitous, though one might ask how quickly it was applied to existing covered good wagons, as opposed to the large numbers of 16' 6" covered wagons being built around that time. I presume the number was put on the door at the same time. That some at least of these older wagons got the door lettering and number is, I think, demonstrated by Midland Wagons, plate 177. This shows a wagon that has had its numberplates removed and, I believe, its lettering and number painted over - one, can, I think, see the patches; anyway, I've put my transfers in the same places.

 

Hum. The lettering on this D363 at Heysham in 1904 looks to be on, rather than above, the door centre line:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 30382.]

[billbedford]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Hum. There's a wonky O in LOCO.

 

One of the Os is upside down?

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, billbedford said:

One of the Os is upside down?

 

They're pre-aligned on the sheet but if released from the tissue paper before the gum has properly set, they can drift around a bit.  

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Hum. The lettering on this D363 at Heysham in 1904 looks to be on, rather than above, the door centre line:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 30382.]

 

It's a pity that it doesn't look like that anymore, with the nuclear power station built on what was the ballast dump.

 

[Compound2632]

15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes indeed, as captioned at Derby registers: https://www.midlandrailway.org.uk/derby-registers/DY12660.

 

Disused Stations has what i take to be another photo from the same series, all listed as 22 July 1922, though that's probably the date entered in the registers, taken in the course of the week preceding, probably. What caught my eye was the variagated end planking of a lowside wagon:

 

 

I've realised that wagon, on the tight of the photo on the Disuesd Stations website, is the same one as the one on the left of the photo I posted (or right, as first posted, the wrong way round). It's the one @MarcD spotted as having M R reversed.

[41516]

The angles are ever so slightly different, but a quick and dirty overlay of both images gives this.

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, 41516 said:

The angles are ever so slightly different, but a quick and dirty overlay of both images gives this.

 

The Midland's photographer was fond of multi-plate panoramas.

[Compound2632]

The D333 Implement Wagon is ready for paint:

 

 

Of course the photo shows up things not obvious to the eye, such as the slightly wonky buffer. The securing rings have been left standing upright pending a load.

 

I departed from the instructions when it came to the brake gear, following the Brassmasters underframes in assembling the push-rods outside the brake blocks and using a couple of tumblers from the Brassmasters etch to space out the pushrod etches at the cross-shaft. 

 

Of the etched numberplates provided, I felt 18534 best suited the condition of the wagon, with 8A axleboxes, per Midland Wagons plate 309.

 

I think I need to run a file over the bottom of the axleguards - the tabs where the keeper-plate folds over need removing. I hope @k22009 won't take offence at my saying that I think the axleguards are the sole weak point in this excellent kit: they come down a bit too low below the bottoms of the axleboxes and the wingplates are at too steep an angle and come down too far. But that's being picky; the width of the wagon is such that, once painted black, they will, like the ten-spoke wheels, be lost in obscurity. Otherwise, I think the kit is very well-designed; I've been pleased with how easily it has gone together, considering my inexpert soldering skills.

[MrWolf]

I say that you've made a very nice job of an unusual wagon, I'm sure that the buffer will respond to a little leverage. I'm always thinking that I have buffers skewed and usually I'm right, not as simple as you'd expect to get square on.

 

Out of interest, how long did these wagons survive after grouping?

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Out of interest, how long did these wagons survive after grouping?

 

Back in March, I made some notes on ex-Midland diagrams in the copy of the LMS Special Wagon Diagram Book at Kew [TNA RAIL 422/12]. As printed, this lists 86 D333 wagons - all but six of the wagons built to Drg. 708, so the oldest dating back to 1887; it also lists all 12 D730 wagons, the 12 ton version built in 1909 and 1914, which could perfectly well be built from this kit, with the substution of oil axleboxes and both-side brakes with long levers.

 

These lists have the numbers progressively crossed out in different colours of ink, the dates being 25 March 1935 (faded red ink), August 1937 (less faded red ink), September 1938 (green ink), and November 1939 (blue ink). The first date wasn't a very thorough edit, so the quantities I've got are for the last three dates. For D333, these give: Aug 37, 27; Sep 38, 15, Nov 39, two - Nos. 19288 and 31578. For D730, there are no deletions but Nos. 189431-70 have been added. These are the forty built at Wolverton in 1929, so, presumably, this Diagram Book pre-dates that.

[andytrains]

Dodgy buffers.

Clasp brakes on nearest wheel.

Plank missing on end, 2nd down, on next wagon.

Edited September 21, 2023 by andytrains

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, andytrains said:

Dodgy buffers.

 

Well down on its springs - and perhaps the wagon on the right is well up on its?

[WFPettigrew]

3 hours ago, andytrains said:

Dodgy buffers.

 

And a mahoosive brake lever guard, with the brakes being single wheel clasp on both sides - possibly independent, I cannot tell.. 

 

Poor thing that really is rather sad.

[MarcD]

I don't think the brakes are standard NER practice. The should be clasp brakes one side only. These would be operated by side mounted leavers (one each side) for Southern and Northern Divisions and end mounted leavers for Central division wagons.  Some very early P7's had a two shoe brake one side only operated with a single side mounted leavers.

[billbedford]

This is an LNER diagram 11. They had the steel T stanchions. Originally, brakes were on both wheels on one side, but this wagon seems lacking in the brake department. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

6 hours ago, andytrains said:

Dodgy buffers.

Dodgy everything! Look at the tinworm in the corner plate. The lack of any numbering suggests use off the network after withdrawal?

[Compound2632]

Coaching stock post in the coaching stock topic:

 

 

[Compound2632]

Now, if you'd told me seven years ago (cripes!) that I would be posting RTR wagons in this topic, I would give you that look the cat gives me when I've suggested she might use the cat-flap rather than have me open the back door - derisive disdain.

 

 

And in BR condition too! This one I am aiming to grubby up a bit in time for use on our club layout Erlegh Quay at the Blandford Forum exhibition this weekend - the layout is BR(W) c. 1955. 

 

They look even better with the tension-lock coupling and its mounting block removed:

 

 

Three link couplings (using the existing drawhook) would complete the picture. 

 

The LMS D1666 12-ton open is technically a Midland Railway design, the drawing being in the Derby C&W Drawing Register sequence and the first lot being the last in the Midland series, though not entered until May 1923. It also perpetuates the close relationship between Midland an RCH wagon design. 

 

My understanding is that during the 1920s, LMS numbering of new-built wagons was not systematic but continued the practice of wagons taking the numbers of the wagons of which they were renewals. So 101524 replaced a Midland wagon of the mid-late 1890s, probably a D299, whereas 247185 replaced a LNWR wagon, possibly a D53/D54 coal wagon, or a D4/D9 open.

[Compound2632]

More S&DJR stuff, with charts:

 

[Spitfire2865]

On 18/09/2023 at 11:41, Compound2632 said:

 

Well that is certainly something I never expected to see RTR.

While part of me is sad to see RTR taking yet another good kit, I also appreciate the modelling companies focusing on more accurate freight stock.

 

[Compound2632]

27 minutes ago, Spitfire2865 said:

While part of me is sad to see RTR taking yet another good kit, 

 

Well, between you, me, and the gatepost: it's not the world's greatest plastic wagon kit.