More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

Some progress - actually a couple of weeks ago - on the Finney/Brassmasters Stephenson Clarke wagons. I was out of suitable axleboxes and buffers - the MJT Midland ones suit but they were out of those when I ordered back towards the end of May; on enquiry in early July I was told, with apologies, that they were just having a casting session. So here they are, fitted to the wagons:

 

 

 

Because of the uneven underside of the resin molding, I couldn't use a large plasticard spacer to pack the sub-frames out to the right position; instead, strips of 0.020" x 0.100" Evergreen strip were stuck flat just inboard of the solebars. 

 

Arrgh is that a wonky V-iron I see on the right? 

[Chas Levin]

Excellent looking wagons Stephen! I have one in my pile and you've inspired me to dig it out and put it at - well, maybe near - the front of the queue.

May I please ask, are those axleboxes MJT's 2246 Ellis/MR Grease ones?

And are those buffers MJT's 2301 (unfitted POW unsprung)?

[Rail-Online]

Just a clip from as neg taken at Perth in 1930.  The meat wagons with the ladder leaning against them are LMS and I really do wonder if they were actually all painted in lined Crimson as per the official photo!  Anyway the MR D299 wagon and the end door version are more interesting..........

 

Cheers Tony

Edited August 5, 2023 by Rail-Online
Additional info

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

May I please ask, are those axleboxes MJT's 2246 Ellis/MR Grease ones?

 

Yes.

 

9 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

And are those buffers MJT's 2301 (unfitted POW unsprung)?

 

No, they're 2304: MR non-fitted (unsprung) - but there's not a great deal of difference that I can see. Having previously used the Midland ones, I knew what they looked like and they looked right. I don't think I've had any of the plain PO ones.

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Rail-Online said:

Anyway the MR D299 wagons are more interesting..........

 

I'll say. In fact the one on the left, still lettered MR, is D351 with the end door at the far end - the hinge bar and diagonal strap plate can be seen. The LMS-lettered one shows once again the patches painted over the M and R for the letters L and S - which leads one to wonder when either wagon last had a full repaint. Neither wagon has had a second set of brakegear fitted; I'd be surprised if many of these two diagrams ever did.

 

On that note, I'll leave you all to talk among yourselves while i'm off enjoying the rain in the Lune Valley for a fortnight!

[Northroader]

I was thinking “why the stepladder?” and following up it looks as if somebody’s on the roof, and there’s a big gap between the ladder and the roof, which would have involved some gymnastics.

Enjoy the North country, Stephen, I’m sure the weather will improve soon.

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes.

 

 

No, they're 2304: MR non-fitted (unsprung) - but there's not a great deal of difference that I can see. Having previously used the Midland ones, I knew what they looked like and they looked right. I don't think I've had any of the plain PO ones.

Thanks Stephen - I thought the 2304 MR buffer housings looked ever so slightly more tapered than the PO ones, but I'd agree the difference is very slight indeed.

 

Have a nice holiday! 👋

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

I was thinking “why the stepladder?” and following up it looks as if somebody’s on the roof, and there’s a big gap between the ladder and the roof, which would have involved some gymnastics.

Enjoy the North country, Stephen, I’m sure the weather will improve soon.

Looking at the photo the guy on the roof appears to have a paint pot,maybe re waterproofing part of the roof. 

 

Jamie

[Western Star]

Just when I have something interesting to contribute the man goes on holibobs!

 

This link to the FB page of the Didcot Railway Centre shows wagons on the Weymouth Tramway...  and not a single D299 in sight.  My interest is the wagon to the RH end of the rake... a GWR 3-plk with a possible running number of "7784" (thanks to @magmouse).  The solebar looks to be either wood or wood with a flitch plate and yet Nick has shown (to a group of GW modellers) that some of those wagons had bulb solebars.

 

In the absence of info from the GWR Wagon Stock Books, anyone wish to comment upon either the running number or the solebar material?

 

regards, Graham

[Rail-Online]

Gosh those look like ancient wagons on the Weymouth Tramway.  They all have 5 link couplings.

 

Tony

[Compound2632]

Limited access via Mrs Compound's phone. Struggling with predictive text now I know how @jamie92208 gets on.

[MarshLane]

Can anyone point me towards where I may find any images (if they exist) of wagon works back in this 'pre-grouping' period, depicting build or repair of vehicles such as these, or just wagons outside the works?

 

Rich

[kitpw]

There are quite a few references on the web. This is just one.  https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/swindon-works/carriage-wagon-works-21-shop/21-shop-wagon-repairs-building-shop-c1930s-486174.html.

 

[corneliuslundie]

A bit specialist for you, maybe, but there are 12 pages of photos inside the Cambrian Railways works at Oswestry in David Maidment's "Cambrian Railways Gallery". There are also a few errors in captions though, but not necessarily in this chapter.

One to ask for at the library?

Jonathan

[drduncan]

On 05/08/2023 at 14:36, Western Star said:

Just when I have something interesting to contribute the man goes on holibobs!

 

This link to the FB page of the Didcot Railway Centre shows wagons on the Weymouth Tramway...  and not a single D299 in sight.  My interest is the wagon to the RH end of the rake... a GWR 3-plk with a possible running number of "7784" (thanks to @magmouse).  The solebar looks to be either wood or wood with a flitch plate and yet Nick has shown (to a group of GW modellers) that some of those wagons had bulb solebars.

 

In the absence of info from the GWR Wagon Stock Books, anyone wish to comment upon either the running number or the solebar material?

 

regards, Graham

7784 was a 1 plank wagon I’m afraid…

Duncan

[drduncan]

However, 7783 at 2’4” high sides could be a 3plank. It was built under lot 447 (don’t have the lot list to hand to confirm if 3 or 4 plank) built at Swindon in Aug 1888, iron u/f, fitted with oil ok axle boxes in Jun 1910. Became ballast wagon no 60016 in Nov 1936.

Duncan

[Chrisbr]

34 minutes ago, drduncan said:

However, 7783 at 2’4” high sides could be a 3plank.

This would be so much easier with access to the original, un compressed for FB, picture. Anyone know where it is?

 

I would be pretty confident in the last digit being a "4" and the first either a "2" or a "7". Beyond that lies guess work I suggest

 

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, MarshLane said:

Can anyone point me towards where I may find any images (if they exist) of wagon works back in this 'pre-grouping' period, depicting build or repair of vehicles such as these, or just wagons outside the works?

 

Rich

I think a web search will be your best bet. There have been some good ones posted on this thread including GNR Doncaster works.

[Chas Levin]

On 08/08/2023 at 16:00, Compound2632 said:

Limited access via Mrs Compound's phone. Struggling with predictive text now I know how @jamie92208 gets on.

 

Tell me about it: predictive text has become my worst enema!

[MarshLane]

@kitpw @corneliuslundie Thanks for those thoughts guys I'll check them out.

 

@Compound2632 I have tried web searches for wagon works etc, but not really found what I am looking for, hence the query. You've given me a thought about searching for specific places tho.  Thanks for that Stephen.

 

Sorry for the (part related) hijack!

 

Rich

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, MarshLane said:

@kitpw @corneliuslundie

@Compound2632 I have tried web searches for wagon works etc, but not really found what I am looking for, hence the query. You've given me a thought about searching for specific places tho.  Thanks for that Stephen.

 

Sorry for the (part related) hijack!

 

Rich

 

Not at all. The whole business of wagon building and maintenance is relatively neglected.

[Adam]

 

 

Found on Facebook, Sutton Bridge c.1886 some 299s (I think), with nice timber loads and an under runner. Credit to the M&GN Circle, which makes the GNR double bolster in the foreground all the more appropriate.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=519311577005606&set=pb.100067803036939.-2207520000.&type=3

 

Adam

 

EDIT: Image added for reference.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Adam

[Nick Holliday]

8 minutes ago, Adam said:

 

 

Found on Facebook, Sutton Bridge c.1886 some 299s (I think), with nice timber loads and an under runner. Credit to the M&GN Circle, which makes the GNR double bolster in the foreground all the more appropriate.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=519311577005606&set=pb.100067803036939.-2207520000.&type=3

Adam

Since the overhanging timber would have needed a runner, it does seem logical that the three-plank wagon was used. But why has it been uncoupled and the loaded wagons drawn away from it?

[Rail-Online]

8 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Since the overhanging timber would have needed a runner, it does seem logical that the three-plank wagon was used. But why has it been uncoupled and the loaded wagons drawn away from it?

It may not be the runner - the timber in the GN open in the distance looks like it has come from the same batch, in which case some shunting has already taken place

 

Tony

[MarcD]

I can't get the link to work.

Anyone else in the same place?