More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Andy Hayter]

Thank you for that last minute which explains why sheets would end up in collieries.

 

 

[magmouse]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Goods must be loaded and sheeted so as to form a shoot for the rain. In case of high-sided wagons, where the load is not sufficient to make a shoot,

Does this explain the MR’s ongoing attachment to 3-plank wagons? Perhaps high-sided wagons were seen as a problem for smaller/lower loads. The GWR went a different route, with sheet supporters.

 

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

a trestle must be used

Is there a picture of these trestles? I can’t recall ever seeing one, but maybe that’s because I wasn’t looking.

 

Nick.

[Annie]

28 minutes ago, magmouse said:

Is there a picture of these trestles? I can’t recall ever seeing one, but maybe that’s because I wasn’t looking.

 

Yes there's a drawing of a trestle here at the bottom of Stephen's post.

 

 

[magmouse]

15 minutes ago, Annie said:

Yes there's a drawing of a trestle here at the bottom of Stephen's post.

 

Thanks, Annie - it turns out the reason I didn't recall seeing these was not that I wasn't looking, but that I wasn't remembering... Thanks for having better recall than me!

 

Nick.

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, magmouse said:

Is there a picture of these trestles? I can’t recall ever seeing one, but maybe that’s because I wasn’t looking.

2 hours ago, Annie said:

Yes there's a drawing of a trestle here at the bottom of Stephen's post.

 

That's the Werrett drawing - trestle and bow - which is the only evidence for the appearance of these things. I've not identified any Midland-period C&W drawing and I've scoured goods yard photos for piles of the things to no avail. 

[Compound2632]

BTW, those extracts from the various editions of the Appendix to the WTT were brought to you live from the Midland Railway Study Centre, Derby.

 

There are various instructions therein on how to load awkward or dangerous items, but no pictures or photos.

 

On lowside wagons, there is an instruction not to load them with stuff so wide that you can't close the drop-sides, as if left in the lowered position they would obstruct the work of greasers and brakesmen.

[Compound2632]

One cattle wagon is in the paint shop but the Halfords grey primer has just given up, so that's an outing for the morning. I need another large bag of granulated sugar for the marmalade anyway - not that that's a Halfords item. The other cattle wagon is having its partition holders fitted, after my exercise in inadvertent self-harm.

 

So I'm starting to think about cattle. I was rather taken with these beasts:

[Embedded link to Model Scenery Supplies website.]

 

They're finished in pre-grouping livery, as Herefords, rather than the usual Friesians one sees offered as painted cattle, but we're into the "00/H0 scale" game, as, reading the small print, they're 1:87.* 

 

Prototype reference:

 

[Embedded link to DY9162 at Derby Registers.]

 

*Some may be familiar with the That's not my... series of touchy-feely books for the very young. Young lad in front of me in church last Sunday had one: "That's not my train ... its windows are too shiny." The homily finished and I didn't get to see the rest.** Shades of Sam Vimes, but anyway:

That's not my cow...

... its scale is H0.

... its black and very plasticy white.

... its face looks like a dog's.

... its price is outrageous.

... and so on.

(I'm sure that if you've grazed on 00 cow websites you'll recognise those!)

 

**EDIT:

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Compound2632

[Andy Hayter]

Dexters are small - under 1m at the shoulder but are normally one colour - brown, black or red.

 

Very popular back in the 1800s because the small size meant you could keep a single one in a small shed in a town or city - for milk

 

 

[magmouse]

46 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

... its face looks like a dog's.

 

This is very OT, but... if you see a cow that looks a bit like a dog, or vice versa, you have probably encountered Clarus the Dogcow, from the early days of Apple Macs. You should say "moof" if you see Clarus.

 

Nick.

[corneliuslundie]

That's not my train, it isn't Midland red (or in my case Rhymney red)

Jonathan

[magmouse]

45 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

That's not my train, it isn't Midland red (or in my case Rhymney red)

Jonathan

 

This could run and run...

 

That's not my D299, it has Ellis 10A axleboxes...

 

That's not my GWR 4-planker, it is painted grey in 1903...

[Compound2632]

Langley Dexters:

It's the one in the middle I'm saying "moof" to.

[Compound2632]

But seriously folks, for my time and place - English midlands at the beginning of the 20th century - I think I want want standing animals in my cattle wagons, off to slaughter after market day. I'm not doing a farm move; I think dairy cattle would mostly stay put, at my period.

[magmouse]

10 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I think I want want standing animals in my cattle wagons

 

Agreed. Given that you can't see a huge amount of them, the 'livery' is probably more important than the 'diagram number'. Anything standing up that looks like a cow should meet the requirement. 

 

Nick (standing by the be flamed by people who actually know something about farming and can tell one breed of cow from another even when it's less than 1 inch tall and made of metal)

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, magmouse said:

when it's less than 1 inch tall and made of metal

 

Well, yes, size and weight are important considerations here.

[Aire Head]

49 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I think dairy cattle would mostly stay put, at my period.

 

Dairy cattle still required moving from time to time usually in relation to a Market Day where they would be sold.

 

Some breeds are "dual purpose" such as Shorthorns however they might be a bit too Northern for your requirements.

[Aire Head]

As a further note I forget to mention another particular bovine traffic!

 

Bullocks!

 

Bulls going to market would be a common occurrence. In order to prevent excessive inbreeding (of the cows) bulls would be loaned between farms and quite often from some distance thereby requiring movement by rail.

[phil_sutters]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

 

Dairy cattle still required moving from time to time usually in relation to a Market Day where they would be sold.

 

Some breeds are "dual purpose" such as Shorthorns however they might be a bit too Northern for your requirements.

Short horns seem to have been pretty wide spread. When looking for stock for the Highbridge Wharf cattle dock & wagons, I chose Dairy Shorthorns and Devon Reds. The latter could be too west country for you. Have a look at what UK breeds there are and you can probably find details of their history and distribution around the country.

I got a couple of packs of 9 unpainted resin cows and a bull from WWScenics. Currently they are £5.99 a pack. Which seems to be the best deal going. There may be one or two that aren't standing, but if you are packing them into wagons you can arrange them so their legs can't be seen.

Another similar option at a lower price of £4.99 for 10 cows plus a bull is this one. https://www.scale3d.co.uk/collections/new-figures/products/cows?variant=43517378625756 I haven't seen these myself but have had many other products from this manufacturer and they are excellent.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by phil_sutters

[Andy Hayter]

Dexters were also used for meat having a nice marbled flesh - fat streaking through the red meat - which all the TV chefs tell us is good for flavour.  Also do not forget that even a city cow (and Dexters were also kept in the country) needed to be serviced by a bull around once a year - otherwise the milk flow stopped.  I am no sure how that worked with city cattle but there must have been some mechanism.

[Dave John]

Well thats what the prize cattle wagons were for Andy. er, Have Bull will travel sort of thing ....... 

[Aire Head]

5 hours ago, Dave John said:

Well thats what the prize cattle wagons were for Andy. er, Have Bull will travel sort of thing ....... 

They didn't have to travel in a prize cattle van/horsebox though. Only the absolute best would do that 

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, Dave John said:

Well thats what the prize cattle wagons were for Andy. er, Have Bull will travel sort of thing 

 

54 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

They didn't have to travel in a prize cattle van/horsebox though. Only the absolute best would do that 

 

Nevertheless, I have got that GE prize cattle van to build, in aid of keeping up the genetic diversity.

[corneliuslundie]

You called?

 

Jonathan

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by corneliuslundie
typo

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

You called?

 

I think the lady nearest the camera is a Freisian. They're very familiar, as our wake-up call when at our usual holiday spot is the sound of the cows going to milking. It's a hill farm in the Western Dales, with a herd of 22 milking cows when we arrived last summer, up to 23 at the end of our fortnight. An addition to stock had been made at Hawes market, taking advantage of high demand and prices owing to the drought in the south. It was at one time the practice to have a Jersey or two in the herd, upping the cream content and hence price of the daily milking.

 

It helps to know the usual timing of the milk tanker lorry, as the roads are very narrow!

 

[corneliuslundie]

I think these were young heifers - trying to get through the gate before we did - we won. Photographed on Ffridd Farm neat Newtown.

Jonathan